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Petition asking ASUS a clear answer on Recent G.cards VRM temps.

oded1st

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#1
hi, i want o make a petition and ask asus to let us know what going on with the vrm temps on latest high end cards like 780ti and 290X.
i would like your opinion on this and to suggest if crorrections are needed.
if you have better words to write in the pettion then dont hold back, type it down.
thank you.
this is what i tought of:
Petition asking ASUS a clear answer on Recent G.cards VRM temps.
Dear Asus,
we, the owners of high end graphic cards, owning both nVidia and AMD cards, are very concerned with the high temperature reading on VRM.
especialy the 780Ti and the R9 290X.
we are getting the reading of 100c - 115c when the gpu is stressed.
we would like Asus to answer our concerns so we would have an official statment from asus.
we are loyal clients , followers and fans of asus and we are prod to be such people.
the latest VRM temp has raised alot of question and we woul like an official answer.
Thank you
with all of the users names that will sign on this.
p.s.
i will post it in the GPU + HW forums to collect enough signs.
thank you.
 

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#2
hi, i want o make a petition and ask asus to let us know what going on with the vrm temps on latest high end cards like 780ti and 290X.
i would like your opinion on this and to suggest if crorrections are needed.
if you have better words to write in the pettion then dont hold back, type it down.
thank you.
this is what i tought of:

with all of the users names that will sign on this.
p.s.
i will post it in the GPU + HW forums to collect enough signs.
thank you.
Ever thought of just emailing them? I emailed Gigabyte direct about any questions or queries and they usually answered pretty promptly and honestly.
Hell, you can even call up NVidia and they give you some pretty blatant details on what you're asking about their product. You'd be surprised.
 
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#3
I want to know too.

I dont know how this card got 9.5 review score here. In my opnion it has some serious flaws. VRM would over heat. And after Catalyst 14.4 it would start throttling. There is no heat sink on the memories. And the cooling is not good comparing to other 290x.
 

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#4
I want to know too.

I dont know how this card got 9.5 review score here. In my opnion it has some serious flaws. VRM would over heat. And after Catalyst 14.4 it would start throttling. There is no heat sink on the memories. And the cooling is not good comparing to other 290x.
Maybe I can help, if you look at the review it was pre catalyst 14.4 and therefore possibly the throttling you refer to did not occur, also the review clearly states there is (albeit small) a VRM heatsink, and lastly the temps comparision with both the AMD reference card and a couple of others does not suggest it's cooling performance is particularily inferior.

In perspective and just a personal opinion from what I have seen and read elsewhere, the valid points the OP raises here would be equally addressed to AMD as from what I can see the Asus cards in general don't appear to be any worse than many of it's competitiors, i say this in relation to our particular review and not all reference designs of course.
 
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#5
Plus the vrm's are rated to run long term at those temps anyway, sinking heat is part of what they do, my 5870 got that hot easily before I waterblocked it and them vrm's are rated to work upto 150º afaik
 

oded1st

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#6
Ever thought of just emailing them? I emailed Gigabyte direct about any questions or queries and they usually answered pretty promptly and honestly.
Hell, you can even call up NVidia and they give you some pretty blatant details on what you're asking about their product. You'd be surprised.
My dear friend, i did as do other users.
somtimes asus said to rma the card and somtimes to use the fan & temp teakk.
Plus the vrm's are rated to run long term at those temps anyway, sinking heat is part of what they do, my 5870 got that hot easily before I waterblocked it and them vrm's are rated to work upto 150º afaik
these are very good news.
though i wish we were friends so i could trust your expiriance.
again... good news... but i rather have ASUS commenting on that.
 

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#7
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#8
Maybe I can help, if you look at the review it was pre catalyst 14.4 and therefore possibly the throttling you refer to did not occur, also the review clearly states there is (albeit small) a VRM heatsink, and lastly the temps comparision with both the AMD reference card and a couple of others does not suggest it's cooling performance is particularily inferior.

In perspective and just a personal opinion from what I have seen and read elsewhere, the valid points the OP raises here would be equally addressed to AMD as from what I can see the Asus cards in general don't appear to be any worse than many of it's competitiors, i say this in relation to our particular review and not all reference designs of course.
I mean there is no heat sink over the RAMs, not VRM. There is a heat sink on the RAM of most other 290x cards, like this one.

Even if throttling did not occur, VRM 1 temperature would go upto 120 celsius when running furmark. 120 is over the rated running temperature thats why in 14.4 AMD starts throttling the card when VRM 1 goes to 112.
 

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#9
The article I posted above suggests that the temperature readings are wrong.
 
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#10
I am considering water cooling this card just because the cooler is bad.
But I have never done liquid cooling and it seems a lot of work to install everything.
 

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#12

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#13
also, is it true that inductors are rated to stand up to 200c?
Yep. Inductors are usually just coiled copper wire surrounded by concrete in laymen's terms. They don't especially need much cooling at all. You'll notice most motherboards have them, and half the time aren't particularly covered by any heatsink. VRM's are the ones that actually need passive cooling, and passive cooling is usually all they need. They're rated at such a high operating temperature.
 
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#14
The best option is to return the asus card and grab a different card,nothing will make them reconsider their designs more than lower sales.
 
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#15
Plus the vrm's are rated to run long term at those temps anyway, sinking heat is part of what they do, my 5870 got that hot easily before I waterblocked it and them vrm's are rated to work upto 150º afaik
Coils: 125C° (power output efficiency and inductance drop as temp grows)
MOSFETs: 125C° (power output and efficiency drop as temp grows)
Caps: 105C° (capacity drops)
So the VRMs are safe upt o 100C° on the mosfets and 90C° on caps
 

oded1st

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#16
Coils: 125C° (power output efficiency and inductance drop as temp grows)
MOSFETs: 125C° (power output and efficiency drop as temp grows)
Caps: 105C° (capacity drops)
So the VRMs are safe upt o 100C° on the mosfets and 90C° on caps
even if asus is using some high quality componant?
asus say they use molded Caps (sap cap i think?), they say these caps are ultra durable to heat and moist 3 times more then regular gpu caps.
they say..
Compared to most components heat won't affect the chokes so much in the long run as they are environmentally sealed, non-moving parts. Compared to capacitors that are 'wet' inside, which is why we use the high quality 105C, 10s of thousands of hour life-span Japan made variety. It's more important here than your motherboard. What really kills stuff is humidity+heat. But, again, being environmentally sealed they won't suffer as bad as other parts can do. The old-old-old chokes that were exposed to air would oxidise and/or vibrate, but that's no longer the case. I don't want to quote our marketing because it seems to take away from a technical discussion, but the "super alloy" part is genuinely an upgraded alloy from the low-profile or low-cost chokes on reference cards, which is part why DCII is a bit more expensive than reference.

As for the PCB itself getting hot - it's also meant to as it's unavoidable as the solder joint is a better conductor than any thermal paste. It's mitigated as part of the PCB design: the tracing and layers. You can remove/replace/add thermal components that will lower the temperatures certainly, which is why after market cooling has always existed. The thermal pad might not be the 'best' solution but it's the most long-lasting. You can replace it with thermal paste and maybe every 6 months have to replace it. As a company we can't ask our users to do that.
 
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#17
even if asus is using some high quality componant?
asus say they use molded Caps (sap cap i think?), they say these caps are ultra durable to heat and moist 3 times more then regular gpu caps.
they say..
12 000 hours at 105C° is the highest rating that I know of for capacitors. ASUS uses 10 000 hours at 105C° which is a year and a bit of guaranteed operation past that most will go boom. ALL inductors get lower efficiency and max current through put as they are heated up because the electrical resistance of the copper wire used increases exponentially as it gets heated up. The only way to counter this is to get some seriously overkill inductors that push 85A at 25C° because at 150C° they will probably only do 65A. MOSFETs are made of silicon and we all know how much CPUs like high temperatures.
 
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#18
Yeah dude, that's insane I ran the GPU-z Render test and guess what, the VRM temp went to 99 º and the GPU being only 73 º, this wouldn't happen if the Bios had a better fan speed at 80 º at least which is the main cause why everytime mine hits max 83 º and no more specially while playing BF4, hitting that temp then the GPU throttles and again hit the exact temperature over and over again, it was the last Asus card I bought if there's no solution at least with the fan speeds, to add a worse scenario, they won't release a Bios with fans speeds fixed, I personally don't care about the noise, i mostly play with headphones so why bother... i like the noise thou because I think the fans are very well used at that time.
 
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#19
Yeah dude, that's insane I ran the GPU-z Render test and guess what, the VRM temp went to 99 º and the GPU being only 73 º, this wouldn't happen if the Bios had a better fan speed at 80 º at least which is the main cause why everytime mine hits max 83 º and no more specially while playing BF4, hitting that temp then the GPU throttles and again hit the exact temperature over and over again, it was the last Asus card I bought if there's no solution at least with the fan speeds, to add a worse scenario, they won't release a Bios with fans speeds fixed, I personally don't care about the noise, i mostly play with headphones so why bother... i like the noise thou because I think the fans are very well used at that time.
thank you for your replay.
this is on the spot!
im having the exact same thing.
only solution is this:
 

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#21
Thing is she mentioned the sensors irregularity and asked if it was the case could she have something official from Asus, the link I posted earlier clearly states that the review team at Kitguru had spoken to the Asus engineering team and they had confirmed the sensor issue, my point in linking that in the first place was to suggest that you do not have a VRM temp issue at all, you just think you have because of the sensor issue.
 

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#22
i think the problem here is it the information is getting lost in translation.
 
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#24
Thing is she mentioned the sensors irregularity and asked if it was the case could she have something official from Asus, the link I posted earlier clearly states that the review team at Kitguru had spoken to the Asus engineering team and they had confirmed the sensor issue, my point in linking that in the first place was to suggest that you do not have a VRM temp issue at all, you just think you have because of the sensor issue.
yea, now i saw it BUT it is about the R9 290X and not the 780TI DC2OC?

i also think this needs to be mentioned:
iv tried all sort of FAN combination to cool the VRM (last method was the Scythe 4250RPM fan),
it seems that nothing can reduce those "VRM" temps.
the only method that did worked (if to actualy call it a method), was to keep the CORE temp beneath 75c. _ VRM temps almost always 20c (give or take 2c-5c) above Core.
the episode of vrm dont want ot get cool, made me wonder that maybe it is a misplace sensor.
maybe they placed it on the mofset(?)

so tell me if im right in the image below:

 
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#25
The sensor doesn't need to be covered by a heatsink. The sensor doesnt work correctly and is giving you faulty information on the temps. Really there's no real issue here.