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Phenom II against intels old and new chips all oced to 3.7ghz

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#51
How do you expect me to comply with what AMD are trying to tell us that :
f`kin with limp dick is better that f`kin with stiff dick.
 
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#52
How much better would a overcloked phenom 2 945 or 940 be over a overclocked q6600?
Depends on the application. Apparently like 5% worse to 5% better (according to the review in this thread, note this is very rough math), depending. 945 and AM3 may shake the numbers up a bit though.
 

eidairaman1

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#53
How do you expect me to comply with what AMD are trying to tell us that :
f`kin with limp dick is better that f`kin with stiff dick.

I swear you got issues dude, maybe you need to take a week break from these forums to recoup your demeanor cause belittling people here is unacceptable and will not be tolerated by the normal members and the moderators.
 
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#54
I`v been on both sides :

K6-2 450 MHz voodoo banshee 16mb
AthlonXP 2200+ connect3d 9600XT
Athlon64 3700+ X800 and X1950pro

And when AMD are going to be worth it I will gladly switch again.
And PII 920 for 200$ is great buy for me and you but not for AMD that is what I`m trying to say.
For company that is trying to turn the table top CPU price 230$ it is not the tide that it needs.
 

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#55
Ph2 wasnt expected to turn tables, to me its a calm before a storm, sort of like the 3800-> 4800 lineup.

I`v been on both sides :

K6-2 450 MHz voodoo banshee 16mb
AthlonXP 2200+ connect3d 9600XT
Athlon64 3700+ X800 and X1950pro

And when AMD are going to be worth it I will gladly switch again.
And PII 920 for 200$ is great buy for me and you but not for AMD that is what I`m trying to say.
For company that is trying to turn the table top CPU price 230$ it is not the tide that it needs.
 
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#56
That's a PERFECT review.
 
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#57
Ph2 wasnt expected to turn tables, to me its a calm before a storm, sort of like the 3800-> 4800 lineup.
What is the storm, PII with DDR3 something like 939 vs AM2 in my view point.
I read some where comparation C2D vs Athlon64 with some software that measured cache guessing success and result was some thing like C2D was 60% accurate in assumptions and Athlon64 was 30%. And I think that Phenoms are suffering from same thing and why they don`t benefit that much from larger cache memory same could be sad for Athlon64. And why it is needed new architecture and not selling true quad type stories.
And that slides that they make are misleading. When they compare i7 with PII and there is not noticable difference in performance. In the same way intel could compare Q6600 to PII.
 

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#58
You are complaining about DDR3 prices being high do I need to remind you when DDR II prices fall down compare to DDRI when AMD switched to AM2 and DDRII it is the same for DDRIII.
Well not everyone switched to DDR2 as soon as AMD switched to AM2, I stuck with DDR1 on socket 754 got as long as possible. When I made the switch DDR2 I waited for prices to drop dramatically. AM2 users are doing the same thing now, we are waiting for DDR3 prices to drop before investing in AM3 as we did with the 754 to AM2 switch :)

(or 939 to AM2 switch)



Only reason why there are still C2DUOs is because of AMD. If AMD delivered what they promised C2DUOS would be long gone.

What did AMD promise, I can remember the Athlon X2 being the Pentium Ds competition, I can also remember the Athlon X2 taking out its PD competition.

The C2Duos where never meant to be aligned with the Athlon X2. The Agenda Phenoms were suppose to be the Qxxxx competition not the C2Duos, so why are you bringing the C2Duos in the equation.



AMD need to wake up stories don`t sell cpu performance sell them.
Although there might be truth in this, remember that AMD have marketing teams with PHDs that are better qualified at advising them.

And all funboys out there you are very easy to spot every user that has agena phenom is either missinformed or AMD funboy.
So according to you, if I was to keep my existing motherboard and buy a Phenom 9950 (agena) I'm a fanboy?

Are you going to pay for my new motherboard to jump on the AM3 or i7 route?

Apparently recycling your motherboard and going from an Athlon X2 to Phenom 9950 is a fan boy decision according to your statement.

The Q6600 still costs more than the 9950 here in the UK, Intel motherboards are stupidly priced in comparison, knowing this I'm miss informed for wanting the cheapest upgrade, knowing this iam a fan boy for caring about my wallet.


if PII 940 was 20% faster than 3GHz i7 beleve me AMD would asked 1000 $ for it.
NO.

If the Phenom 940 was only 20% faster and costed $1,000, Intels i7 would be the best bang for your buck. However that is not the case and the roles are to a degree reversed

Its a shame a few people are still confused by the "best bang for your buck statement"

How about my E5200 it is cheaper than yours Athlon64 6000+. And who says that Intel boards are more expensive. My cpu could go 3.75 on P31 mobo 50$. And if you want to oc yours phenom 100 MHz you need 200$AMD mobo with sb750. How Intel boards more expensive no one are forcing you to buy x48 for C2Q you can go by with P35 just fine.
Remember the pricing system varies country to country. Just because where you live the E5200 is cheaper it does not mean it is the same for everyone. I purchased my 3800 X2+ almost three years for about £45, they are worth like £30 now. The E5200 is about £70 and my 3800+ X2 at near 2.8 GHz is above the E6400 according to Sandra.

PS. Here in the UK the ancient Athlon 6000+ X2 is cheaper than the E5200 :)


How much better would a overcloked phenom 2 945 or 940 be over a overclocked q6600?
It's too early to say, but a overclocked Phenom 9950 is about the same speed as a overclocked Q6600, so I would say the Phenom II would have about a 10-40% advantage, depending on applications. Lets wait and see.
 

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#59
What is the storm, PII with DDR3 something like 939 vs AM2 in my view point.
I read some where comparation C2D vs Athlon64 with some software that measured cache guessing success and result was some thing like C2D was 60% accurate in assumptions and Athlon64 was 30%. And I think that Phenoms are suffering from same thing and why they don`t benefit that much from larger cache memory same could be sad for Athlon64. And why it is needed new architecture and not selling true quad type stories.
And that slides that they make are misleading. When they compare i7 with PII and there is not noticable difference in performance. In the same way intel could compare Q6600 to PII.
well on about core i7, to me its just a Core 2 that has been improved in the Media Encoding Dept, where gaming is pretty much the same.

On about Q9000 lineup, the P2 should force intel to drop the pricing on their Q9000 series if they want to maintain a iron grip on the market, but to me that would make Intel Fans happy cause then they can afford an excellent CPU that doesnt need the overclocking that the lower parts need, and will make intel exhaust the Core 2 Market so they can push the Core i7 totally.
 
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#60
well on about core i7, to me its just a Core 2 that has been improved in the Media Encoding Dept, where gaming is pretty much the same.

Yes but C2 is great basis of improvement P1 it is not. P1 needed redesign. And design needs engineers and AMD lay off 1 000 of them. I simply don`t like where it is going. If AMD closes.
Intel in the next 10 years it is going to sell us i7s.
 

eidairaman1

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#61
well on about core i7, to me its just a Core 2 that has been improved in the Media Encoding Dept, where gaming is pretty much the same.

Yes but C2 is great basis of improvement P1 it is not. P1 needed redesign. And design needs engineers and AMD lay off 1 000 of them. I simply don`t like where it is going. If AMD closes.
Intel in the next 10 years it is going to sell us i7s.
Well just to say
P2 should of been P1, cause of this reason they Claimed P1 to be very powerful and that wasnt delivered like it was on P2.

P1 shares way too many design ques with the Brisbane, thus winds up slower than even the Older Windsor and Previous CPUs as of Scaling rate. Kuma seems to have replaced Brisbane totally performance wise, and it seems P2 will replace P1 as of real performance.

I know im jumping around, i hope this makes sense.
 

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#62
R9,

It would appear that you have made an extra special effort to be as awkward as possible when addressing the Phenom II and i7 situation. You've made a great effort to debunk AMDs reasoning for releasing a price competitive CPU however upon challenging your views in post #58 you've decided not to pursue your constant AMD bashing, you've since ignored my post despite it answering the questions you were confused about. I have since concluded that either you are attempting to stir trouble or you have troll tendencies
And design needs engineers and AMD lay off 1 000 of them. I simply don`t like where it is going. If AMD closes.
I can remember Intel laying off thousands of staff as well but I don't see you talking about Intel's making their staff redundant!
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1014_3-6111478.html
http://invest-n-trade.blogspot.com/2008/12/intel-layoffs-job-cut-may-layoff.html
 

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#63
Darren there is no need to pick fights, and also that quote that was posted, i didnt post that, that was R9

arigatou gozaimasu.

R9,

It would appear that you have made an extra special effort to be as awkward as possible when addressing the Phenom II and i7 situation. You've made a great effort to debunk AMDs reasoning for releasing a price competitive CPU however upon challenging your views in post #58 you've decided not to pursue your constant AMD bashing, you've since ignored my post despite it answering the questions you were confused about. I have since concluded that either you are attempting to stir trouble or you have troll tendencies
I can remember Intel laying off thousands of staff as well but I don't see you talking about Intel's making their staff redundant!
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1014_3-6111478.html
http://invest-n-trade.blogspot.com/2008/12/intel-layoffs-job-cut-may-layoff.html
 

Paulieg

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#64
Just keep it civil guys. Anyone else here have any real world experience with both the Intel Quad cores AND the new PII? I can tell you from personal experience that I am impressed with PII. It is a fast processor. As I said earlier, it seems faster to me than the Q6600 or Q9550 ever did, and I fully tested both of those processors. I'm not sure how to explain it, except it's kind of like ATI and Nvidia. Ati for picture quality and Nvidia for raw benchmarking speed.
 
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#65
Darren Let me simplify:
About memory DDR3 price will match that of DDRII when AMD would completly switch to DDR3.

The C2Duos where never meant to be aligned with the Athlon X2.
Meant or not meant the fact that Athlon64 5200+ - 6400+ was left to fight dual core battle vs C2D that is why comparation review was made that is made from some else sharing my opinion.

Although there might be truth in this, remember that AMD have marketing teams with PHDs that are better qualified at advising them.
Twisting the truth is twisting the truth the fact that is done by teams with PHDs doesn`t make a difference.

So according to you, if I was to keep my existing motherboard and buy a Phenom 9950 (agena) I'm a fanboy?
OK you may be part of the grey area. :D

If the Phenom 940 was only 20% faster and costed $1,000, Intels i7 would be the best bang for your buck. However that is not the case and the roles are to a degree reversed

I
ts a shame a few people are still confused by the "best bang for your buck statement"
I don`t know what are trying to say but my point was that AMD are not robin hoods that sell 1000$ CPUs for 200$ that is the max that they could get for them.

Remember the pricing system varies country to country. Just because where you live the E5200 is cheaper it does not mean it is the same for everyone. I purchased my 3800 X2+ almost three years for about £45, they are worth like £30 now. The E5200 is about £70 and my 3800+ X2 at near 2.8 GHz is above the E6400 according to Sandra.

I don`t know what are you comparing my 3.8GHz is as 4x6000+ athlons

It's too early to say, but a overclocked Phenom 9950 is about the same speed as a overclocked Q6600, so I would say the Phenom II would have about a 10-40% advantage, depending on applications. Lets wait and see.

I don`t know how do you plan to oc Phenom 9950 to Q6600 speeds 3.6-3.8
 
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#66
And I have never read so many words with so little meaning like I was watching Political TV show.
 
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#67
Where I`m it is 5 AM. It is enough. I`m going to bed. If anyone wants to fight leave me PM :D
And this time sentence even have more meaning why would I smile wile inviting some one to LIVE FIGHT :D :D :D
 
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#68
hate to tell you but the 3870 is a shrinked 2900XT
Also i recall in the past AMD never asked for 1000 USD for their FX Lineup, so why would they now, because their fastest i believe only costed 500 USD at the time, its always been Intel charging 1000 USD for their EE parts when their lowerend always outdid their EE lineup, and that is FSB only.
The FX-60 did release at $1000. $1031 tray price, to be exact.
 
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#69
Darren Let me simplify:
About memory DDR3 price will match that of DDRII when AMD would completly switch to DDR3.
I'm happy to see DDR3 prices match DDR2 prices and when that happens I'll consider building a i7 or Phenom II rig, until then.

The C2Duos where never meant to be aligned with the Athlon X2.
Meant or not meant the fact that Athlon64 5200+ - 6400+ was left to fight dual core battle vs C2D that is why comparation review was made that is made from some else sharing my opinion.
Fair enough its not Intels fault that AMD were too slow to implement an affective Core 2 Duo counter, however they've since aligned the E7xx/8xxx series with the AMD Phenom X3 8750 as far as performance goes.

In the UK the Phenom X3 is cheaper too...


I don`t know what are you comparing my 3.8GHz is as 4x6000+ athlons
In post #46

You said that the E5200 was cheaper than the Athlon 6000+ X2, I made a point of saying that my 3800+ X2 is cheaper than a E5200 by a huge margin yet overclocks faster than the E5200 at stock. I also made a point in saying in the UK the Athlon 6000+ X2 is cheaper than the E5200 and hence your statement that the E5200 is cheaper is invalid.

How about my E5200 it is cheaper than yours Athlon64 6000+. And who says that Intel boards are more expensive. .


I don`t know how do you plan to oc Phenom 9950 to Q6600 speeds 3.6-3.8
Perhaps the initial Q6600s went as high as 3.8GHz, but Intel soon made a stop to that with the newever revisions which would struggle to overclock to 3.4 GHz on a high end board, similarly to the Phenom 9950 BE.

Edit:

3:50 am here, bed time.
 

Wile E

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#70
Hate to tell you but it is not just shrinked because 3870 is 256bit and is as faster as 2900XT whitch is 512bit with better AA AF performance that is some thing that cant achive with simple die shrink.
Nice to join in the thread you may learn something.
No, the 3870 does not out perform the 2900XT in most cases.
 

erocker

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#71
r9 is done for the evening. Let's keep the discussion civil please.:)
 

Polaris573

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#72
Those of you who are triple posting need to know that it is unacceptable. Please use the edit button if you have something to add, or the multi-quote button if you want to quote more than one person. Thank you.
 
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#73
i think that the strong part of the "phenom II" family isnt going to be the quad core processors, its going to be the dirt cheap dual cores, the 7750 seems like nice, cheap and overclockable workhorse, while you might want a top of the line Core7 processor for the flagship, the machine you pump out the show off numbers with and do weird overclocking experiments, you know that for a work mule that you just want it to work decently for gaming and aplications without costing an arm and a leg, the diesel powered AMD´s are better,

you could probobly build a very decent gaming machine for under 400 euros using a 7750 and a 4670/4830,
 
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#74
For AMD selling cheap CPU wont lead the to salvation.
For us 45nm AMD and competitive price suts us just fine.
What about Athlon x4 does not have L3 cache no biggie and some like 2.4 GHz for example.
In time that they come up prices of Phenom II will fall furder and lets guess PII 940 for 200$ in three - four moths time when Athlon x4 would came up in the scale

PII 940 200
PII 920 170
Athlon 2.7 GHz or some thing 140 and when you get to the athlon x4 2.4 it will cost around 100 $ and it is 45nm and I`m guessing that it will overclock great.
 
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#75
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1170&page=9

The X2 range has four current processor models. The 4800+ sits at 2.4GHz with 1MiB, the 4600+ is 2.4GHz and 512KiB, the 4400+ is 2.2GHz and 1MiB and looks like a solid choice, and finally there's the 4200+ with 2.2GHz and, you guessed it, 512KiB. Prices are $1001, $803, $581 and $537 respectively.
Yeah, AMD was always cheap. I guess...? NO! They launched the Phenom I at $200+, while the Q6600 was at the same price range, and their potential is SOO much different. And look at the current prices, how much did they drop the price?

Which CPU has more stable price?

The reasonable price for Phenom II 920 is $209, and $239 for 940. Higher than that = rip-off.