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PL1 and EDP other constant red

TheBlackPyro

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I'm using an i3 7100U (15W tdp). When gaming it can go to about 20W sometimes, but it begins to power throttle and almost half processor speed. The temperature is still cool (~82°C) but I don't know why it's throttling. I've increased power limits and core icc Max but no change. I've also changed thermal paste. Any help or advice is appreciated
 

unclewebb

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Did you check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box?

Some laptops with low power CPUs are limited to 15W and there is nothing you can do about it. If PL1 and PL2 are both set well above 15W and the Disable and Lock box is checked then you are out of luck.
 

TheBlackPyro

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Did you check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box?

Some laptops with low power CPUs are limited to 15W and there is nothing you can do about it. If PL1 and PL2 are both set well above 15W and the Disable and Lock box is checked then you are out of luck.
If it's 15W limited, how come I go beyond that sometimes? I've also just noticed that when the iGPU isn't running things get much cooler and the throttling stops.

If it's 15W limited, how come I go beyond that sometimes? I've also just noticed that when the iGPU isn't running things get much cooler and the throttling stops.
I'm trying the FIVR TPL disable
 

unclewebb

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how come I go beyond that sometimes?
There are short term power limits and long term power limits. For a short period of time you can go beyond 15W but for a long period of time, there might be a 15W limit that you cannot bypass. Hopefully Disable and Lock works for you.

The power limit is for the entire CPU package. The power limit has to be shared with the CPU cores and the iGPU. When the iGPU is not being used, more power is available for the cores so they can run faster.
 

TheBlackPyro

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There are short term power limits and long term power limits. For a short period of time you can go beyond 15W but for a long period of time, there might be a 15W limit that you cannot bypass. Hopefully Disable and Lock works for you.

The power limit is for the entire CPU package. The power limit has to be shared with the CPU cores and the iGPU. When the iGPU is not being used, more power is available for the cores so they can run faster.
Doable and lock did not help me maintain max speed at high power. I noticed when I run a bench with the game running, power drops to under 15W but I get max speed. Immediately bench ends, power goes to 15W+ and I lose speed. Is this in any way related?

Doable and lock did not help me maintain max speed at high power. I noticed when I run a bench with the game running, power drops to under 15W but I get max speed. Immediately bench ends, power goes to 15W+ and I lose speed. Is this in any way related?
Also I noticed I sometimes get PL2 limit, even though I've set it far higher than the package power at the limit. Does it mean I don't have access to change this on my PC?
 

unclewebb

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Red in Limit Reasons means throttling is in progress. A yellow box shows a record of previous throttling. The CORE column is usually the important one.

Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop while benchmark testing so I can see what you are seeing. Make sure Limit Reasons is open so I can see it and the main ThrottleStop window.

Disable and lock did not help me
After you check the Disable and Lock box, the only way to reset this setting is to shut down your computer. Keep that in mind when testing.

If your computer is not using this throttling method then checking this box will not help or hurt your CPU performance. Might as well leave it checked.
 

TheBlackPyro

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I've attached the limit reasons while game is running. RivaTuner for in-game stats in case that also helps with extra information. In this shot PL2 is yellow, but it switches between yellow and red.
For the shot of throttlestop benchmark testing, absolutely nothing throttles, benchmark completes fine, with average power of 10W. No limiting anywhere. Only issue is it was fighting the game for resources and the game got halted till it completed, when the game was halted thats when all the limiting stopped. Immediately the bench completed and the game became dominant again: throttle :(. How is it that the bench can go to max speed at 10W but the game has to throttles athigher Watt,I'm probably wrong but shouldn't higher power imply more performance?
 

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unclewebb

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When the benchmark is running, it is fully loading the CPU cores. The TS Bench benchmark does not load the iGPU. This should allow the CPU to run faster. As soon as the TS Bench benchmark ends, now the available power has to be shared between the CPU cores and the iGPU. When there is less power available for the cores, they are going to have to slow down.

The 7100U has a 15W TDP rating. The manufacturer of your laptop might have set a hard limit of 17W. The power limits can change depending on if the Intel GPU is being used or not.

These CPUs also have a configurable TDP mode. In TDP-down mode, the TDP drops to 7.5W.


Some computers with these configurable TDP chips can get forced into into TDP-down mode for any reason.

The in game on screen stats are not always accurate when a CPU is power limit throttling. Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop. Play a game for at least 15 minutes and then attach a log file to your next post or copy and paste the data to www.pastebin.com

Post some screenshots of how you have ThrottleStop setup.
 

TheBlackPyro

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Thanks. These are shots of my TS settings, pretty much the defaults, except in the TPL window where some edits have been made. I'm working on the log file and will add when it is ready.

Log after some minutes of gaming
 

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unclewebb

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@TheBlackPyro - The maximum default multiplier for your CPU is 24. When playing a game, this is dropping down and mostly sitting at 13.

Not sure why this is happening. It shouldn't be. You have a 7th Gen CPU which supports Speed Shift Technology but this is not enabled yet. Open the Turbo Power Limits window and check the Speed Shift box. Press Apply and it will update what the Min and Max values are for your CPU. Set Speed Shift Max to 24 and 8 is the typical value for Speed Shift Min. Enter those values and press OK.

On the main window you should now see SST in green. That means Speed Shift Technology is enabled. Now you can check the Speed Shift EPP box and you can adjust the EPP value on the main screen. It currently shows that this is set to 128. For maximum CPU speed regardless of load, set EPP to 0. For most laptops, if you want the CPU to slow down when it is lightly loaded, setting EPP to 80 is a good compromise.

Using Speed Shift should prevent your CPU from dropping down to the 13 multiplier. There is no power limit throttling yet. Running your CPU faster might create some more heat but you still have lots of head room. Run another log file and let's see what else needs to be adjusted. You can use ThrottleStop to lower the CPU voltage but no need to do that just yet.
 

unclewebb

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The log file shows lots of power limit throttling right at 15W which is the rated TDP for your CPU.

If you still have PL1 set to 30W in the TPL window and Disable and Lock is still checked then these fixes are being ignored and you are still being limited to 15W. Many laptops do this. They use an EC internally to enforce the TDP power limit. There is no easy fix for this problem. Too bad manufacturers did stuff like this. Your temperatures are fine so there is no real reason to throttle these CPUs to 15W.

The only thing left is to undervolt your CPU. This reduces power consumption so your CPU can run a little faster while still staying within the 15W power budget. You have a low power U series CPU so these CPUs are already running at a fairly low voltage. Typical offset undervolt values that will still be stable are usually somewhere between -50 mV and -75mV. You need to set both the CPU core offset and the CPU cache offset to these values. If you only undervolt one of these, the undervolt will be ignored.
 

TheBlackPyro

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Thanks @unclewebb . I've found a spot at -90mV for Core. I'm currently exploring GPU undervolting, I'm at -100mV, so far I can see reductions in power usage, especially on the GPU. When I find non-crashing spots for both I'll retry gaming and see what happens.

It appears I'm not really allowed to make changes to PL1 and PL2 so I undervolted as you said, and I'm not throttling anymore! Even under crazy loads (like the game) I'm barely hitting the 15W mark, and the temperatures are even better! Thanks so much @unclewebb !

I'm using a core and cache voltage offset of -0.090 V and
iGPU voltage offset of -0.180 V for my i3-7100U.
Anything of higher magnitude results in benchmark errors and BSODs.
 
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