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planning for a big upgrade

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As a streamer on AM5, I see little to zero value in needing ecores. Any modern heaxcore cpu isn't heavily taxed feeding a stream unless you're doing esoteric things (crazy bitrates or ridiculous compression)

Hardware encoding will alleviate a lot of that, having said that, I rarely see much over a 5-7% cpu load on a thread on my 7800X3D for streamlabs obs, and it would be lower if I was using AV1 on a newer card like the 7800XT.

Even my ancient R5 3600 only was taxing a single thread for around 20% for my exact same streaming configuration.

Unless you're playing games that soak up cpu resources (and nothing you listed does, even D4) you're not going to need an e-core setup.

There's little to no reason to pick Intel at the moment for pure gaming and a 7600X (just get a 7600 and pbo it) will crush most games and at least everything you've listed.

Much as Intel was the king of gamers due to single thread clock speed, they're matched by AMD at every point and more importantly, every intel processor is on a dead platform and is very energy hungry. AM5's are a lot easier on the power budget (and cooling) and on a new platform with drop in upgrades down the track.

If you're considering a 14600/14700 then the outlay (motherboard, cpu, ram) is likely to be very close to 7800X3D budget range.

As a side consideration on the ram front - look at G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo - 6000 CL30) it's a few euros more but the real sweet spot for AM5 at present.

that's my 2 cents (after a fresh upgrade from AM4 to AM5 keeping the same video card - a radeon 6800XT)

You'll also do yourself a favour if you can grab a 1tb nvme drive from something in the pcie gen 4 range as a replacement boot drive, the uptick in performance and overall snappiness of the drive will yield decent results for (what I can see) should be under 100 euro's.
 

dgianstefani

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Trident Z RAM doesn't have thermal pad on PMIC so it's far from the sweet spot.

14600K rig is nowhere near the cost of 7800X3D lol.

Intel uses comparable power draw during gaming, if you're loading up all 22 cores in a synthetic benchmark, then yes the 14700K can get thirsty, but so can the comparably powerful 7950X.

AM5 actually runs hotter than 14th gen because of chiplet thermal density and the crap heatspreader.

"Needing" the performance 8-12 ecores brings is opinion, having it available is options. Choosing a six core over a 14/22 core for comparable money is questionable, regardless of "dead" platform.
 
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I will add, if you only upgrade cpu once every 5 years or so, it's always a "dead platform".
 

ir_cow

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Trident Z RAM doesn't have thermal pad on PMIC so it's far from the sweet spot.
I do like me some G.Skill Neo / Flare X. However as you said already it doesn't have a thermal pad on the PMIC. It does include a lifetime warranty though and at 1.35v is it really that big of deal?

Other brands do have one and it costs nearly nothing (martial wise) to include one. G.Skill loses out in a direct comparison.

Semi related to this, I want to get some sticks and see how long it takes before the PMIC/bucks die. 1 year, 5 years? Idk.
 
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I do like me some G.Skill Neo / Flare X. However as you said already it doesn't have a thermal pad on the PMIC. It does include a lifetime warranty though and at 1.35v is it really that big of deal?

Other brands do have one and it costs nearly nothing (martial wise) to include one. G.Skill loses out in a direct comparison.

Semi related to this, I want to get some sticks and see how long it takes before the PMIC/bucks die. 1 year, 5 years? Idk.

I just bought a G.Skill Trident Z5 7200Cas34 kit and it has definitely has thermal pad on PMIC, with 1.4v VDDR the max temp I see is 41C with the top fan blowing over the modules (28C ambient).

My older Trident Z5 6000Cas36 kit don't have thermal pads, at 1.4v it would easily reaches 50C+ during gaming.

Oh and bought another Z5 6400Cas32 kit for a friend and that kit get to 63C during gaming, so the thermal pads is something new
 
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Trident Z RAM doesn't have thermal pad on PMIC so it's far from the sweet spot.

14600K rig is nowhere near the cost of 7800X3D lol.

Intel uses comparable power draw during gaming, if you're loading up all 22 cores in a synthetic benchmark, then yes the 14700K can get thirsty, but so can the comparably powerful 7950X.

AM5 actually runs hotter than 14th gen because of chiplet thermal density and the crap heatspreader.

"Needing" the performance 8-12 ecores brings is opinion, having it available is options. Choosing a six core over a 14/22 core for comparable money is questionable, regardless of "dead" platform.


It doesn't need a thermal pad unless you're ram bashing it 24/7, for gaming and under synthetic testing holds up flawlessly. Since it's not running excessive voltage to get beyond 6000 it's not ramping up heat production. Mine has a heatsink on it though, so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

A 14600K is 100 aud less than a 7800X3D (about 50-60 euros) which in the scheme/scale of the ops post, is about 5% of the budget, and seeing the pointed out motherboards in this thread, they make up the difference.

The 7950X is a somewhat thirsty beast (but, substantially more efficient at productivity workloads), but given the op is a gamer, there's no reason to need or want a 16 core cpu.

So if he spends 14600K money, he's 60 euro's short of a 7800X3D (with AMD motherboards generally being similar price or cheaper) if he spends 14700K money, he's gone 100 euro's over the 7800X3D at which point there's no reason to get the Intel chip since it doesn't game as well.

My 7800X3D doesn't get above 55 degrees during gaming, streaming and running yt for a music feed, but the reality of hotter means nothing as it's about removal of thermal energy (wattage more the challenge than temps are)

Given the price difference to the preferable gaming cpu (for a gamer/streamer) spending money on more cores that aren't as performative isn't good use of money.

But when he does upgrade, he more than likely have an option (albeit the end of life products.) Currently the X370 motherboards from 2017 support 5800X3D's (and most will support next years rumoured 5700X3D which means drop in upgrades 7 years later)

Dropping in a 300-400 euro chip for what amounts to a massive increase in gaming performance is vastly better value than needing to buy a new cpu/motherboard/ram.

Don't get me wrong, it's a MUCH harder sell for AMD platform if you do productivity and game, but as a gamer, there's little reason to side with Intel (unless you're on the 12/13 gen now and want 14 gen) but value for money isn't a real option, but outright performance might be in some games (at a cost)
 
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As a streamer on AM5, I see little to zero value in needing ecores. Any modern heaxcore cpu isn't heavily taxed feeding a stream unless you're doing esoteric things (crazy bitrates or ridiculous compression)

Hardware encoding will alleviate a lot of that, having said that, I rarely see much over a 5-7% cpu load on a thread on my 7800X3D for streamlabs obs, and it would be lower if I was using AV1 on a newer card like the 7800XT.

Even my ancient R5 3600 only was taxing a single thread for around 20% for my exact same streaming configuration.

Unless you're playing games that soak up cpu resources (and nothing you listed does, even D4) you're not going to need an e-core setup.

There's little to no reason to pick Intel at the moment for pure gaming and a 7600X (just get a 7600 and pbo it) will crush most games and at least everything you've listed.

Much as Intel was the king of gamers due to single thread clock speed, they're matched by AMD at every point and more importantly, every intel processor is on a dead platform and is very energy hungry. AM5's are a lot easier on the power budget (and cooling) and on a new platform with drop in upgrades down the track.

If you're considering a 14600/14700 then the outlay (motherboard, cpu, ram) is likely to be very close to 7800X3D budget range.

As a side consideration on the ram front - look at G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo - 6000 CL30) it's a few euros more but the real sweet spot for AM5 at present.

that's my 2 cents (after a fresh upgrade from AM4 to AM5 keeping the same video card - a radeon 6800XT)

You'll also do yourself a favour if you can grab a 1tb nvme drive from something in the pcie gen 4 range as a replacement boot drive, the uptick in performance and overall snappiness of the drive will yield decent results for (what I can see) should be under 100 euro's.
if i had to read the things u wrote without thinking i would see "amd platform can ONLY game" and that will immediately put a big red flag on it, since intel CAN game AND do productivity work
i used to stream on twitch tho, that doesn't support av1 encoding, so that entire performance metric part doesn't apply to my use case

as bobaganoosh said, i upgrade very rarely, in the order of 10 years (there's my actual config in the first post, i'm still on a i7 3770) so the dead platform thing looses meaning in this time frame XD

i do already have a 512gb nvme gen4 drive that i planned to use as boot drive (it's hosting my steam library at the moment lol)

for the price comparison between 7800x3d and 14600k, yes there's a 50€ difference, but u can also consider that there's no price difference between 7800x3d and 7900x, that opens a new whole layer of possibilies and fans the flames of confusion XD (14700k is 90€ more)

that's the build i was looking at with the freely interchangeable 7900x or 7800x3d https://it.pcpartpicker.com/list/BD4GbL

and that's the intel build https://it.pcpartpicker.com/list/LYJZ9c (it's a bit over budget but the video card it's still a "dunno for sure")

on another totally subjective note, what feels snappier in general usage (like web browsing) between the 2 platforms? i do have a tendency of opening up a gazillion of tabs of firefox and close them one by one after checking them (youtube tabs mostly)

EDIT2: yes maybe that's the deciding factor, the general snappiness of the system during normal usage...mmhh if i allocate the usage in % that would be 60% general (web browsing, youtube, discord), 30% gaming and the remainig 10% streaming.....maybe it's not correct to give that enphasis at the streaming part since it's so little, with this kind of reasoning the am5 platfom might be worthy again

in the end i think i'll just flip a coin Oo
 
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ir_cow

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I just bought a G.Skill Trident Z5 7200Cas34 kit and it has definitely has thermal pad on PMIC, with 1.4v VDDR the max temp I see is 41C with the top fan blowing over the modules (28C ambient).

My older Trident Z5 6000Cas36 kit don't have thermal pads, at 1.4v it would easily reaches 50C+ during gaming.

Oh and bought another Z5 6400Cas32 kit for a friend and that kit get to 63C during gaming, so the thermal pads is something new
Yeah, all the kits I've tested so far don't have it. I do have the new white ones, but haven't taken the heatspreader off yet to check. This is always why I stopped doing thermal tests. It is a artificially higher value with no PMIC pad since the sensor is right next to it. The ICs don't have a sensor at all.
 

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Don't buy a 7900x it's a six core in disguise.
 
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do you have any suggestion on the snappiest for general usage?

Go through the pages of that review. Looking at web browser performance, office productivity, encoding, compression, etc. (all the non-gaming tasks), you can see 14700k does better than 7800X3D. So does 14600k. Is it enough better to make you want to go that way? We can't decide that for you. The 7800X3D wins at gaming (below 4k anyway then it's marginal on any newer CPU). We definitely can't decide for you, but I do think we'd all agree that the 7900X isn't a better option than 7800X3D and at that point, it's really a budget and personal preference situation whether you go 7800X3D or 14700k (14600k if you need to save the extra money).
 
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Go through the pages of that review. Looking at web browser performance, office productivity, encoding, compression, etc. (all the non-gaming tasks), you can see 14700k does better than 7800X3D. So does 14600k. Is it enough better to make you want to go that way? We can't decide that for you. The 7800X3D wins at gaming (below 4k anyway then it's marginal on any newer CPU). We definitely can't decide for you, but I do think we'd all agree that the 7900X isn't a better option than 7800X3D and at that point, it's really a budget and personal preference situation whether you go 7800X3D or 14700k (14600k if you need to save the extra money).
first things first, the only thing clear is that if i keep thinking about it i won't ever do anything XD
secondly, at least looking at the review, the web browsing difference between 14700k and 7800x3d doesn't seem that large, especially comparing it to my actual situation
so all things considered i might go 7800x3d for the easier cooling and the future upgradeability.


that's the final build, it's just missing a usb c front panel that i'll get later and maybe another 2tb ssd to use as a dump storage + steam library saver

maybe i'll just get everything expect the video card and wait for a bigger discount on it like 2-3 weeks down the road

should i worry about cooler offset mounting or for that extra degree isn't worth the hassle?
 

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first things first, the only thing clear is that if i keep thinking about it i won't ever do anything XD
secondly, at least looking at the review, the web browsing difference between 14700k and 7800x3d doesn't seem that large, especially comparing it to my actual situation
so all things considered i might go 7800x3d for the easier cooling and the future upgradeability.


that's the final build, it's just missing a usb c front panel that i'll get later and maybe another 2tb ssd to use as a dump storage + steam library saver

maybe i'll just get everything expect the video card and wait for a bigger discount on it like 2-3 weeks down the road

should i worry about cooler offset mounting or for that extra degree isn't worth the hassle?
Or you could just buy a 4090.

Each to their own I guess.

Your mind was made up before asking advice.
 
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Don't buy a 7900x it's a six core in disguise.
My 7900X3D feels pretty snappy to me.

My 7900X3D feels pretty snappy to me.
HWiNFO64 v7.43-5040 Sensor Status [1 value hidden] 2023-12-07 9_27_26 AM.png


Or you could just buy a 4090.

Each to their own I guess.

Your mind was made up before asking advice.
Where can you get a 4090 for $7-800 Euros?
 

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first things first, the only thing clear is that if i keep thinking about it i won't ever do anything XD
secondly, at least looking at the review, the web browsing difference between 14700k and 7800x3d doesn't seem that large, especially comparing it to my actual situation
so all things considered i might go 7800x3d for the easier cooling and the future upgradeability.


that's the final build, it's just missing a usb c front panel that i'll get later and maybe another 2tb ssd to use as a dump storage + steam library saver

maybe i'll just get everything expect the video card and wait for a bigger discount on it like 2-3 weeks down the road

should i worry about cooler offset mounting or for that extra degree isn't worth the hassle?
I would agree with all of this. I also think it was a good point made earlier about upgrading the SSD you run Windows on. This will improve the "snappy" feel of things if you're currently on a much slower drive. It has been shown that the offset mounts can help a little, but overall the Ryzen 7000 series just runs a bit hot due to the IHS design and trying to really push it to save 2 degrees isn't always worth it. That cooler you picked is a really good performer, especially for the price, so I see why you picked it. Does it offer an offset mount? If so, go ahead and use it, but if it doesn't, don't worry about it.
 

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System Name Best AMD Computer
Processor AMD 7900X3D
Motherboard Asus X670E E Strix
Cooling In Win SR36
Memory GSKILL DDR5 32GB 5200 30
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse 7900XT (Watercooled)
Storage Corsair MP 700, Seagate 530 2Tb, Adata SX8200 2TBx2, Kingston 2 TBx2, Micron 8 TB, WD AN 1500
Display(s) GIGABYTE FV43U
Case Corsair 7000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Corsair Void Pro, Logitch Z523 5.1
Power Supply Deepcool 1000M
Mouse Logitech g7 gaming mouse
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 11 Pro 64 Steam. GOG, Uplay, Origin
Benchmark Scores Firestrike: 46183 Time Spy: 25121
Joined
Sep 1, 2022
Messages
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System Name Firestarter
Processor 7950X
Motherboard X670E Steel Legend
Cooling LF 2 420
Memory 4x16 G.Skill X5 6000@CL36
Video Card(s) RTX Gigabutt 4090 Gaming OC
Storage OS: 2TB P41 Plat, 2TB SN770, 1TB SN770
Display(s) FO48U, some dinky TN 10.1 inch display.
Case Fractal Torrent
Audio Device(s) PC38X
Power Supply GF3 TT Premium 850W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard OG Razer Black Widow
first things first, the only thing clear is that if i keep thinking about it i won't ever do anything XD
secondly, at least looking at the review, the web browsing difference between 14700k and 7800x3d doesn't seem that large, especially comparing it to my actual situation
so all things considered i might go 7800x3d for the easier cooling and the future upgradeability.


that's the final build, it's just missing a usb c front panel that i'll get later and maybe another 2tb ssd to use as a dump storage + steam library saver

maybe i'll just get everything expect the video card and wait for a bigger discount on it like 2-3 weeks down the road

should i worry about cooler offset mounting or for that extra degree isn't worth the hassle?
Great picks. You might want to get the 7700x and get a 7900 xt instead if you want more raw GPU performance. You will see more of a difference that way. You can cut down your motherboard to a B650 to get some savings. (Same manufacturer.) The only real loss will be PCIE 16x 5th gen. The audio codec is the same and you will miss some out on m.2 ports. (3 on B650 normally.) You could perhaps lower a bit on your PSU as well but I'm not sure if that is needed. Either way a beast rig!
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2023
Messages
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what if i wanted to get everything now fitting it into a 1500€ (italian) budget? (there's an option that i can get someone to pay for a part of it, but i must use the chance now XD)

that's the post where i've put the new budget, and i was answering specifically to dgianstefani, it's not showing in the quote, but i do agree that it was a single line mixed in the entire thread so it was difficult to spot


Or you could just buy a 4090.

Each to their own I guess.

Your mind was made up before asking advice.

then u need to give me 500 euros more, because the cheapest 4090 in italy where i live is 2048€ (and ofc more money for the rest of the component, can't use a 4090 with my current setup)

i've show how much i was willing to listen to people before making my judgement, and it clearly shows that i've switched multiple times between amd build and intel build, so i can't really see where my mind "was made up before asking advice"

Great picks. You might want to get the 7700x and get a 7900 xt instead if you want more raw GPU performance. You will see more of a difference that way. You can cut down your motherboard to a B650 to get some savings. (Same manufacturer.) The only real loss will be PCIE 16x 5th gen. The audio codec is the same and you will miss some out on m.2 ports. (3 on B650 normally.) You could perhaps lower a bit on your PSU as well but I'm not sure if that is needed. Either way a beast rig!

well the videocard is the thing i'm still unsure about, but i wanted to keep a decent mobo "just in case" there's a future need for an upgrade (same with the PSU)
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2023
Messages
193 (1.07/day)
Location
USA
System Name Dark Palimpsest
Processor Intel i9 13900k with Optimus Foundation Block
Motherboard EVGA z690 Classified
Cooling MO-RA3 420mm Custom Loop
Memory G.Skill 6000, 32GB
Video Card(s) Nvidia 4090 FE with Heatkiller Block
Storage 3 NVMe SSDs, 2TB-each, plus a SATA SSD
Case Be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900
Audio Device(s) Logitech G Pro X
Power Supply Be quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W
Mouse Logitech G502 X
Keyboard GMMK Pro + Numpad
You can probably save a few dollars on cheaper motherboard and power supply, but I wouldn't. That's basically the cheapest ASRock board I'd buy and cheaper ones from other vendors don't seem to be any better in the digging I've done. You're not going for extreme OCing or anything like that, but when you're considering longevity of a system you want parts that have good power delivery, cooling, a warranty, and a history of quality. If you want it to last, sometimes you have to invest in the parts that make everything else work properly. The super cheap motherboards from every vendor, as an example, are full of bad reviews online from poor quality, failures, and excessive heat due to bad VRM designs.
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2023
Messages
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yep, i do like asrock since my mobo is from them and it lasted already quite a while (i suspect it could last 5/10 more years for lighter use cases XD

dunno if it's relevant, but i don't really need wifi on the board, so i could ditch it in favour of savings or better performing board, but for what i've saw every decent mobo has it
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
326 (0.30/day)
Processor AMD 7600x
Motherboard Asrock x670e Steel Legend
Cooling Silver Arrow Extreme IBe Rev B with 2x 120 Gentle Typhoons
Memory 4x16Gb Patriot Viper Non RGB @ 6000 30-36-36-36-40
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT MERC 319
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 1Tb NVME
Display(s) 3x Dell Ultrasharp U2414h
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower PF3 850 watt
My 7900X3D feels pretty snappy to me.

Great if you are doing 50/50 gaming/productivity and cant afford a 7950x3d.

Problem with the 7900x3d is that if you are primarily/only gaming and its working correctly the second CCD is parked nearly all the time so your running a 6 core x3d CCD only.
 

dgianstefani

TPU Proofreader
Staff member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
3,589 (1.59/day)
Location
Swansea, Wales
System Name Silent
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D @ 5.15ghz bclk, TG AM5 High Performance Heatspreader
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix X670E-I, chipset fans removed
Cooling Optimus AMD Raw Copper/Plexi, HWLABS Copper 240/40+240/30, D5, 4x Noctua A12x25, Mayhems Ultra Pure
Memory 32 GB Dominator Platinum 6150 MHz 26-36-36-48, 57ns AIDA, 2050 FLCK, 160 ns TRFC
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, Conductonaut Extreme, 18 W/mK MinusPad Extreme, Corsair XG7 Waterblock
Storage Intel Optane DC P1600X 118 GB, Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB
Display(s) 32" 240 Hz 1440p Samsung G7, 31.5" 165 Hz 1440p LG NanoIPS Ultragear
Case Sliger SM570 CNC Aluminium 13-Litre, 3D printed feet, custom front panel with pump/res combo
Audio Device(s) Audeze Maxwell Ultraviolet, Razer Nommo Pro
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum, transparent custom cables, Sentinel Pro 1500 Online Double Conversion UPS
Mouse Razer Viper Pro V2 Mercury White w/Tiger Ice Skates & Pulsar Supergrip tape
Keyboard Wooting 60HE+ module, TOFU Redux Burgundy w/brass weight, Prismcaps White & Jellykey, lubed/modded
Software Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 19053.3803
Benchmark Scores Legendary
Great if you are doing 50/50 gaming/productivity and cant afford a 7950x3d.

Problem with the 7900x3d is that if you are primarily/only gaming and its working correctly the second CCD is parked nearly all the time so your running a 6 core x3d CCD only.
If it does activate the second ccd then you get to enjoy the latency issue of having a game run on two different ones, and either way, worse performance than a 7800X3D.

It's a deceptive chip, you think it's better than the eight core without paying the premium of the 16 core, but it's worse than both. Basically a 7600X3D.

Not to mention scheduling issues from having two types of core, but without the hardware scheduler Intel has.

Now if it was 8+4...

Anyway, I think there's a reason TPU didn't bother to review it.
 
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