Platform upgrading in 2018, for the main purpose of RAM?

[newconroer]

I must have three or four of these threads going back to when I built this current system.
And someone *coughKnoxcough* is probably going to say 'but hey you claimed Sandy Bridge is the best ever!'

Though...getting back into more VR games and GPU intensive titles such as ARK (among others), I'm starting to think it really is time to do a platform upgrade.

What won't change is the GPU. Admittedly the jump to the 1080 TI would bring some welcome frames, however in ARK, I can't keep 96fps (what I have my monitor refreshing at), unless I'm staring at a wall/sky etc.
At 1440p I just about manage 60fps 90% of the time, with some dips to 50s. And with the frame cap off, I can hover between 60-75.

Will the TI take me to 96 consistently? I highly doubt it.

And while in most scenarios a CPU/motherboard swap won't do much more than 1-5% overall performance improvement, especially in GPU bound software, I am being more and more shown examples of where high DDR speeds are making significant differences in FPS gains (or simply stability).

Going from DDR 3 1333 RAM to DDR 4 3200 (or whatever the big fish is now), is probably the driving reason behind the platform change.

• If I do go down this path, any recommendations on CPU/motherboard combo is pretty bleeding edge, but not dumb money (water cooled MOSFETS, dancing lights, gold plated jet fight emblems)?
• I would like at least two PCI E 3.0 16x, two M.2 connectors, two PCI E 1x, blue tooth and wifi built in.
• The CPU won't be used for any decoding, or etc. but something that supports good file transfer along with the motherboard would be a bonus.
• Which RAM is cost effective while giving a big boost /sweet spot out of the box?

I am open to buying used if anyone has previous generation suggestions.

And for those that are going to tell me to get a GTX 1080TI anyways, I am feeling it's best to wait for Volta to drive price down some and the vendor cards to come out, circa mid to late 2018. I am also investing in a new monitor with Gsync, to help make those frame dips from 96-60 in ARK not seems as noticeable! Monitor costs about same price as the 1080 TI so that's a wash in terms of budget.

 

[Vayra86]

I can share with you my results for going from a 4.2 Ghz i5 3570k with 1600CL9 RAM to my current 8700k @ 4.8 Ghz with 3200CL16. Just to make sure you finally get rid of Sandy

You can check my part list in specs, its not totally bang for buck but definitely in that direction. If you want to save money, get an i5 8600k. Keep the RAM at 3000CL15 at least. Most midrange/upper mid range boards 150-180 EUR/$ will do fine.

TW:WH2 is very CPU heavy

And this is only on a measly 1080

Oh, and if you want my two pennies about ARK: don't scale your new rig on the basis of a crappy, badly developed game. Use a wide benchmark suite and base it on that. ARK is... well, to each their own I'll say.

Before

After

 

[newconroer]

Thanks that's very kind.

You are right, and I would not base it on ARK alone - I know it has it's unfair results in overall performance.
And the reality is, my current system is pretty darn capable. My VR and other 1440p experiences at 96+hz has been impressive which is why I won't ditch this LCS and GTX 1080 for a bit of a bump.

If it wasn't for the fact it's getting really out dated now, I believe my only change would be to a Gsync monitor.

 

[vega22]

i would look for a good deal on a 370 mobo with some bells and whistles when the 470 chipset knocks their prices down. that way you can either get a 1st gen zen cpu or drop in a 2k version for the better ic.

the rest of what z67 is missing today is on all the new platforms give or take. that way you can get onto the new platform with a cheaper cpu and upgrade it to a 8c16t one later when you can make use of it.

 

[Vayra86]

The thing is, if you really want a performance boost from a solid Sandy Bridge upwards; overclocked Intel is the only way to go. The RAM only takes you so far. Ryzen can be a cheaper alternative at a slight performance cost, but I reckon still worth it, Ryzen 5 1600 with an OC to 3.9-4.0 for example, will be better perf/dollar even if you would take into account the perf gap.

 

[newconroer]

i would look for a good deal on a 370 mobo with some bells and whistles when the 470 chipset knocks their prices down. that way you can either get a 1st gen zen cpu or drop in a 2k version for the better ic.

the rest of what z67 is missing today is on all the new platforms give or take. that way you can get onto the new platform with a cheaper cpu and upgrade it to a 8c16t one later when you can make use of it.

I am a bit out of the loop with AMD's efforts to play catch up this past few years.

 

[eidairaman1]

I am a bit out of the loop with AMD's efforts to play catch up this past few years.

The Ryzen is a major Jump for them from FX, it made Intel go into a panic to release what they call 8th gen.

But its projected that Ryzen+ improves ipc.

 

[erocker]

Such a bad time to upgrade anything right now with prices the way they are. Maybe you would be better off going with faster DDR3 for now... If those prices aren't insane.

 

[eidairaman1]

Such a bad time to upgrade anything right now with prices the way they are. Maybe you would be better off going with faster DDR3 for now... If those prices aren't insane.

Would it support 2400?

 

[newconroer]

Such a bad time to upgrade anything right now with prices the way they are. Maybe you would be better off going with faster DDR3 for now... If those prices aren't insane.

Actually, from what I've observed, high end/high speed DDR3 is more costly than your average DDR4 of similar speeds. I presume it's because it is becoming more rare.

The other drawback is that I suspect DDR 3 vs DDR 4 apples to apples on speed favors DDR4 because of architecture upgrades?

Would it support 2400?

Most of this generation boards don't support over 1866(?) unless it has a late generation CPU and then it's a bit iffy. 2400 is out of the question on this board.

 

[eidairaman1]

Actually, from what I've observed, high end/high speed DDR3 is more costly than your average DDR4 of similar speeds. I presume it's because it is becoming more rare.

The other drawback is that I suspect DDR 3 vs DDR 4 apples to apples on speed favors DDR4 because of architecture upgrades?

More bandwidth with slightly less voltage, latency suffers though.

 

[erocker]

Actually, from what I've observed, high end/high speed DDR3 is more costly than your average DDR4 of similar speeds. I presume it's because it is becoming more rare.

The other drawback is that I suspect DDR 3 vs DDR 4 apples to apples on speed favors DDR4 because of architecture upgrades?




Most of this generation boards don't support over 1866(?) unless it has a late generation CPU and then it's a bit iffy. 2400 is out of the question on this board.

Either way, bad time. Have you looked at prices?

 

[sneekypeet]

More bandwidth with slightly less voltage, latency suffers though.

Latency only suffers looking at something like AIDA64 and looking at the number shown. I have shown it before, and Crucial did the legwork on it. DDR4 has the same latency as DDR3, sometimes better, if doing the math rather than just looking at a number presented in software.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-performance-speed-latency That should help to dispel the myth

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

Yep strangely ddr3 prices are high too. I wanted to build a legacy rig but looking at amazon prices for rams turned me off.

All is not loss though. If you can look at your second market in your area you can find some pretty good deals. Some rams are also new without much of price jump.

 

[eidairaman1]

Latency only suffers looking at something like AIDA64 and looking at the number shown. I have shown it before, and Crucial did the legwork on it. DDR4 has the same latency as DDR3, sometimes better, if doing the math rather than just looking at a number presented in software.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-performance-speed-latency That should help to dispel the myth

Yeah i will have to figure mine out since Im running non standard timings for my ram which is 2133 but operating at 2400

 

[sneekypeet]

Yeah i will have to figure mine out since Im running non standard timings for my ram which is 2133 but operating at 2400

i would assume you would have better latency results than the standard kits then, unless you had to relax the timings so far as to reverse the effectiveness of the speed increase.

 

[eidairaman1]

i would assume you would have better latency results than the standard kits then, unless you had to relax the timings so far as to reverse the effectiveness of the speed increase.

Youve got me pondering the true latency, check your message inbox.

 

[newconroer]

The key thing to note is that tight timings /latency was all the rage, however that feels like a legacy concept left over from the DDR/DDR2 era.

And it's only recently that it seems it's making a significant difference where real world performance is concerned.
I wouldn't believe it otherwise much like we don't expect real heft gains from a new CPU.

Either way, bad time. Have you looked at prices?

Hey man, ya, that's why I knew that it was probably worth waiting for the platform upgrade. I'd get the product with the right/minimum speed where as for the same price( and more) I'd get a few hundred more mhz at best on this board.

I will start looking at Intel boards this week and build it around that.

 

[vega22]

sandybridge imc top out at 2200mhz if you're lucky, with many not being stable with 2133mhz sticks. ivy got gains from the better imc and ability to run faster ram.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

If you decide to upgrade platforms you can always buy temporary memory...
I got 8gb DDR4 2400mhz Kingston value ram for $55 shipped from the cheapest option on this link....
http://www.1stchoicememory.com/catalog/memory.asp?partno=g4gb-ddr4-2133

 

[Vayra86]

Such a bad time to upgrade anything right now with prices the way they are. Maybe you would be better off going with faster DDR3 for now... If those prices aren't insane.

There is a real jump besides RAM and CPU clocks, the platform is incredibly mature now, highly efficient especially for gaming. Before I upgraded from Ivy myself I also just looked at the numbers from the perspective of new RAM and CPU, but... there's a lot more to be had. From storage interfaces to Intel's DMI and a bunch of other things, most of them are of great benefit to especially minimum FPS.

Faster DDR3? I wouldn't spend a penny on that.

 

[erocker]

There is a real jump besides RAM and CPU clocks, the platform is incredibly mature now, highly efficient especially for gaming. Before I upgraded from Ivy myself I also just looked at the numbers from the perspective of new RAM and CPU, but... there's a lot more to be had. From storage interfaces to Intel's DMI and a bunch of other things, most of them are of great benefit to especially minimum FPS.

Faster DDR3? I wouldn't spend a penny on that.

It's literally the worst time to buy computer parts. We're in between generations on some parts and what parts are available are all over priced currently. It's all priced (regardless of whatever new tech or performance) over MSRP right now.

 

[Vayra86]

It's literally the worst time to buy computer parts. We're in between generations on some parts and what parts are available are all over priced currently. It's all priced (regardless of whatever new tech or performance) over MSRP right now.

I know... still glad I did, and the price was not horrifying either. 1108 EUR for the lot in my spec list minus GPU, PSU and the 2 older SSDs + HDD.

 

[Vario]

Wait a bit longer to find out what Intel will do with the two vulnerabilities. If you decide to upgrade anyway, Make sure you do get B dies if you want the best ram. If you buy Samsung B Dies and a good motherboard and processor they can go to 4266+ even if your kit is a 3200 CL14. Prices on ram are really high right now. The performance jump is definitely there, having gone from stock 3770K with DDR3 1800 to 4.8 GHz 8600K with DDR4 3200, I can tell that games run much smoother and the operating system loads itself and overall programs run faster. If you don't do much video rendering and primarily play games, I'd go with the 8600K. I can run a game, stream it on OBS, and run twitch, discord, palemoon web browser all at once with no issues.

 

[newconroer]

Either way, bad time. Have you looked at prices?

Wait a bit longer to find out what Intel will do with the two vulnerabilities. If you decide to upgrade anyway, Make sure you do get B dies if you want the best ram. If you buy Samsung B Dies and a good motherboard and processor they can go to 4266+ even if your kit is a 3200 CL14. Prices on ram are really high right now. The performance jump is definitely there, having gone from stock 3770K with DDR3 1800 to 4.8 GHz 8600K with DDR4 3200, I can tell that games run much smoother and the operating system loads itself and overall programs run faster. If you don't do much video rendering and primarily play games, I'd go with the 8600K. I can run a game, stream it on OBS, and run twitch, discord, palemoon web browser all at once with no issues.

Agreed, and even worse 32gb of RAM is stupidly high cost. You can literally buy a Coffee lake high end CPU and motherboard for less than the RAM.

I don't feel this will change any time soon; though what did you mean by the vulnerabilities?

So far I had gotten on my list :


Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor

Asus - ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory