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Please help with ThrottleStop and i7 8750H

Lion800

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First of all, HELLO.

I've been lurking around here for a week and been reading many threads about the best settings for 8750H and ThrottleStop.

Here's what's happening with me:

- I have an MSI Ge63 Raider 8RE @2.2 GHZ and GTX 1060 with hyperthreading on in BIOS.
- When I use the balanced power settings with the slider all the way to the right (Best performance), i get temperatures around the high 70-80s BUT with constant flashing red 95+ peaks in HWMonitor. When i mean by flashing is that the red peaks come and go during gameplay. This is what concerned me and made me look into ThrottleStop.

Now with Throttlestop:

- Setting 1: I started by lowering both the CPU and Cache offsets to -125, disabled PD Prochot, Speedshift EPP at 0 with windows power slider back to middle, set speed shift min/max value according what it showed (min 8, Max 41). Still getting peaks.

- Setting 2: Lowered turbo limits to 34, offsets both to -125, disabled PD Prochot, Speedshit EPP at 0 with windows power slider to middle, Speed shift values min 8 max 34, set Long power PL1 to 38, Short Power PL2 to 79. Good results with no warnings in limit reasons. Temperatures mainly in 70s and sometimes reaching 80.

- Setting 3: Same as setting 2 BUT i set both PL1 and PL2 to 24. Now with this setting i'm getting the absolute best temperatures (low 60s) BUT i'm getting occasional "power" warning in ThrottleStop when gaming and obviously constant "power" warning in TS bench.



My question is: Which setting should i use? Any more tips?

The bigger question is: Do i really need throttleStop since the red peaks are only "occasional" ?



Thank you so much!
 
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Bump for you.
 

unclewebb

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Do i really need ThrottleStop
If you want to lower your CPU voltage and CPU temperatures then you really need ThrottleStop.

Most gaming laptops are designed to run reliably at over 90°C. Intel designs the 8750H and the majority of their CPUs to start thermal throttling at 100°C. Intel says that is the maximum safe operating temperature. Using ThrottleStop to slow your CPU down is not necessary. It is not any safer at 70°C than it is at 90°C. All you are doing is reducing CPU performance.

If it was my laptop, I would set the turbo ratios back to their default values and I would set the turbo power limits back to their default values. To be honest, I would probably increase the turbo power limits beyond their default values to try and get some more performance out of this laptop.

If you prefer a cool and slow computer, it is OK to use ThrottleStop to accomplish these goals. Just don't tell anyone that ThrottleStop makes your computer run slower.
 

Lion800

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If you want to lower your CPU voltage and CPU temperatures then you really need ThrottleStop.

Most gaming laptops are designed to run reliably at over 90°C. Intel designs the 8750H and the majority of their CPUs to start thermal throttling at 100°C. Intel says that is the maximum safe operating temperature. Using ThrottleStop to slow your CPU down is not necessary. It is not any safer at 70°C than it is at 90°C. All you are doing is reducing CPU performance.

If it was my laptop, I would set the turbo ratios back to their default values and I would set the turbo power limits back to their default values. To be honest, I would probably increase the turbo power limits beyond their default values to try and get some more performance out of this laptop.

If you prefer a cool and slow computer, it is OK to use ThrottleStop to accomplish these goals. Just don't tell anyone that ThrottleStop makes your computer run slower.
I've been lurking this section for a week and it fascinates me how dedicated you are and how you take the time to respond to every single inquiry. So thank you very much.

Regarding the turbo power limits, with my testing within ThrottleStop, it seems they are unlocked in my machine hence it's reading 60 w with a max around 70 W during TS bench. So what values do you suggest for long and short and turbo time limit assuming i keep using my "setting 1"?

So basically, i completely ignore the Prochot 95 and Hot red blinking while doing TS bench?

Also, do i need to turn Speed shift on if it says it's already ON in HWINFO?

Any other settings i should experiment with ?

Or

Pretend ThrottleStop didn't exist in the world ?
 
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unclewebb

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TS bench?
It is not great if a laptop thermal throttles during the TS Bench test but as long as your CPU runs reliably, some occasional thermal throttling is not the end of the world. Set your power limits based on how capable your cooling system is. If your laptop cannot handle cooling a 60W CPU then it does not make any sense to set the long term turbo power limit (PL1) to 60W. Reduce this long term limit to what your cooling can handle.

Same with the short term PL2 power limit. If your CPU is thermal throttling at 70W then you need to either reduce the turbo time limit so it only spends a couple of seconds at this higher power limit or you need to reduce the PL2 power limit. Use the Clamp options to enforce these limits. I do not have any magic numbers for you. What is best for you and your laptop depends on what apps you run, games you play and what temperature your room is at.

The best thing you can do is turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and then go play a game for at least 15 minutes. The log file will show if there are any throttling issues. It will show how hot your CPU is running during normal use. A CPU constantly pegged at 95°C should probably be avoided. If the CPU only gets up to that temperature for a second or two, that is not a big deal. If you turn on Nvidia GPU in the Options window, this important data will also be included in your log file.

do i need to turn Speed shift on
On many recent laptops, the BIOS automatically enables Speed Shift so you do not need to use ThrottleStop to turn Speed Shift on. If you want the Speed Shift Min and Max values to be sent to the CPU to control the CPU speed then you will need to check the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop.

The 8750H runs best after you undervolt it. I cannot remember anyone telling me that they do not want a cooler and faster running laptop.

-125 mV for the core and the cache is a good place to start testing. Some users continue to get better results with the core offset as high as -200 mV. These two voltages do not need to be set equally. Use Cinebench R20 when testing different voltages. Most people see an increase in their scores or they see lower temperatures.

 

Lion800

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It is not great if a laptop thermal throttles during the TS Bench test but as long as your CPU runs reliably, some occasional thermal throttling is not the end of the world. Set your power limits based on how capable your cooling system is. If your laptop cannot handle cooling a 60W CPU then it does not make any sense to set the long term turbo power limit (PL1) to 60W. Reduce this long term limit to what your cooling can handle.

Same with the short term PL2 power limit. If your CPU is thermal throttling at 70W then you need to either reduce the turbo time limit so it only spends a couple of seconds at this higher power limit or you need to reduce the PL2 power limit. Use the Clamp options to enforce these limits. I do not have any magic numbers for you. What is best for you and your laptop depends on what apps you run, games you play and what temperature your room is at.

The best thing you can do is turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and then go play a game for at least 15 minutes. The log file will show if there are any throttling issues. It will show how hot your CPU is running during normal use. A CPU constantly pegged at 95°C should probably be avoided. If the CPU only gets up to that temperature for a second or two, that is not a big deal. If you turn on Nvidia GPU in the Options window, this important data will also be included in your log file.


On many recent laptops, the BIOS automatically enables Speed Shift so you do not need to use ThrottleStop to turn Speed Shift on. If you want the Speed Shift Min and Max values to be sent to the CPU to control the CPU speed then you will need to check the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop.

The 8750H runs best after you undervolt it. I cannot remember anyone telling me that they do not want a cooler and faster running laptop.

-125 mV for the core and the cache is a good place to start testing. Some users continue to get better results with the core offset as high as -200 mV. These two voltages do not need to be set equally. Use Cinebench R20 when testing different voltages. Most people see an increase in their scores or they see lower temperatures.

Okay. Thank you. Can you please tell me how to let ThrottleSTop monitor into the log file without it changing any previous settings prior to launching it? I'm guessing: Delete the ini file then log off and log on, open ThrottolStop and tick the log file box without touching anything else?

Because that's what i will do now and play GTA V for 15 min.

Sorry i'm new to this :(
 

unclewebb

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If you want ThrottleStop to log your computer at its default settings then you would need to exit ThrottleStop, remove the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and then you would need to shut down your computer so your CPU can reset itself. Logging off and logging on will not reset the CPU.

No real reason to do this. If you want to log data with the CPU at default voltages then set the offset voltage to +0.0000 and press Apply. Look in the FIVR monitoring table to make sure that all your offset voltages are reporting +0.0000.

Better yet, do the Cinebench testing that I suggested and set your core and cache voltages appropriately. Then you will be ready to do some GTA V testing to see if your Cinebench voltages work reliably when playing.
 

Lion800

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If you want ThrottleStop to log your computer at its default settings then you would need to exit ThrottleStop, remove the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and then you would need to shut down your computer so your CPU can reset itself. Logging off and logging on will not reset the CPU.

No real reason to do this. If you want to log data with the CPU at default voltages then set the offset voltage to +0.0000 and press Apply. Look in the FIVR monitoring table to make sure that all your offset voltages are reporting +0.0000.

Better yet, do the Cinebench testing that I suggested and set your core and cache voltages appropriately. Then you will be ready to do some GTA V testing to see if your Cinebench voltages work reliably when playing.
Well i didn't shut down but the voltages were set to +0.0000. And while you type the message, i was already playing the game now. I also check nvidio GPU in settings.

Here's my log file without cooler boost on. Fans are set to auto.

I'll do the cinebench test as you suggested next.

Here's my cinebench score with the attached settings. I basically just lowered the voltages. Did not turn Speed shift ON assuming my BIOS already takes cares of it.
 

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unclewebb

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Did not turn Speed shift ON assuming my BIOS already takes cares of it.
Do not assume anything. Your ThrottleStop screenshot shows that your BIOS has not enabled Speed Shift Technology. When Speed Shift is enabled, ThrottleStop will show SST in green on the main screen. If you want to use Speed Shift, you need to check this box in ThrottleStop or search your BIOS to see if there is an option to enable it.

Your log file shows that even when power consumption is under 40W, your CPU is still thermal throttling. That means your CPU heatsink is either a piece of crap or it is not installed properly. Many users with this problem disassemble their laptops for a thorough cleaning and they also replace the thermal paste.

Your Cinebench score confirms lots of throttling. A well cooled 8750H with unlocked turbo power limits can maintain the full 39.00 multiplier for the entire test. Your computer is nowhere close to that. For maximum performance, you need to improve cooling. An undervolt can help but it does not solve anything if inadequate cooling is the real problem.
 

Lion800

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Okay thank you for your help. I guess no games until i send it to MSI for a thorough cleaning and check the thermal paste. I turned speed shift ON and i got a score of 2615 but i guess it doesn't matter.

I mainly do music production on it and occasional gaming. Temperatures for normal tasks and while doing music production are always in the low 40s.

I'll send it and let them open it up and see!

Thank you for your help!
 

unclewebb

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The best thing you can do is learn how to do this maintenance procedure yourself. There are lots of YouTube videos available for reference. You do not have to immediately replace the thermal paste. Just cleaning the dust out of your laptop can significantly improve your temperatures when the CPU is loaded.
 

Lion800

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The best thing you can do is learn how to do this maintenance procedure yourself. There are lots of YouTube videos available for reference. You do not have to immediately replace the thermal paste. Just cleaning the dust out of your laptop can significantly improve your temperatures when the CPU is loaded.
I prefer not to do it myself because knowing how bad my luck is, i know i'll mess it up. I'll just send it to the authorized MSI service center.

Meanwhile, i managed to get the best settings for now. Please take a look and give me your thoughts. The log file is while playing GTA V on optimized Nvidia Experience settings.

Regarding the cache offset, i experimented between -125 and -145.5.
 

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unclewebb

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When you move the Windows power slider to "Best performance", it is not really best performance. The FIVR monitoring table shows that this is setting Speed Shift Max to 128. That can reduce maximum performance. For many computers, Windows sets Speed Shift EPP to 84 when the Windows power slider is set to Best Performance. The log file shows that your CPU is only using the 29.00 multiplier.

If you want to run your CPU faster, you will need to use ThrottleStop to switch to the Windows High Performance power plan instead of the Balanced power plan. By default, this will set Speed Shift EPP to 0 so your CPU runs at full speed regardless of load. Have a look at the Speed Shift EPP value listed in the FIVR monitoring table. If you want your CPU to slow down when lightly loaded, check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen of ThrottleStop and try setting EPP to 80. Does the FIVR monitoring table show this change? That might give you a little more CPU speed.
 

Lion800

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Yes in noticed that and yes I see 128 in the FIVR window.
80 seems to get me better performance with the slider set to middle.
0 and I’ll be throttling all over the place.

Best Cinebench score I managed to achieve with those settings and 80 EPP was 2655. Oh well….

Regarding CPU offset, the max my laptop seems to handle is around -145. Anything more than that and I’ll get the blue screen.

For Turbo limits, 36 seems to be the sweet spot for now, until I send the laptop for cleaning!



UPDATE: Just tried EPP 84 and it seems to be the best in terms of temperature.
 
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