• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Poll: Do you like the smoothness of high refresh gaming and/or 60 FPS YouTube videos?

Do you like the smoothness of high refresh gaming and/or 60 FPS YouTube videos?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
102 (0.62/day)
Location
USA
System Name Desktop PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard MSI B450I Gaming Plus Max Wi-Fi
Cooling Corsair Hydro X Series Custom Loop
Memory 16 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200 MHz
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 Super FE
Storage 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO NVMe SSD
Display(s) UPERFECT 4K 60 Hz IPS Touchscreen
Case Fractal Design Define Nano S
Power Supply be quiet! SFX-L 600 W
Mouse Razer DeathAdder V2 Gaming Mouse
Keyboard Razer Cynosa Lite Gaming Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Home 64 Bit
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Time Spy: 10,008
Heck, if our eyes worked at 60Hz driving at highway speeds would be pretty dangerous, and you'd have moved 4-5 meters between each time your eyes "refreshed". If that was the case, highway fatalities would be staggeringly high.

4-5 meters multiplied by 60 Hz is equal to 240-300 m/s, which is roughly the speed of a jet liner. Highway speeds are much slower, around 30 m/s.

But I get your point. Having split-second response time is essential to being a safe driver.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
999 (4.31/day)
Well 75% of Google searching says 60hz-60 fps, but in many cases it does say they don't fully understand, maybe I am wrong but I am going by the larger amount of 60fps I see in searches.
Most of the sites that say 60fps is not enough don't actually give any details as to how they found 60fps to be wrong, maybe I missed something.

Im also sure some lights are on-off rapidly, at the speed they do it the eye just see's on, never off.

----

Should be less than 100fps or on-off 100 times per second. Somewhere around 50-60hz, below this should flicker to the eye.

Why Do LED Lights Flicker On Video? - LED & Lighting Info (ledlightinginfo.com)

Either way you can measure they eye in Hz or FPS, when it stops seeing a difference.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
4,279 (2.76/day)
Location
Norwegian, currently in Lund, Sweden
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Biostar X370GTN
Cooling Custom CPU+GPU water loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3200 C16
Video Card(s) AMD R9 Fury X
Storage 500GB 960 Evo (OS ++), 500GB 850 Evo (Games)
Display(s) Dell U2711
Case NZXT H200i
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Lenovo Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint
Software Windows 10 Pro
4-5 meters multiplied by 60 Hz is equal to 240-300 m/s, which is roughly the speed of a jet liner. Highway speeds are much slower, around 30 m/s.

But I get your point. Having split-second response time is essential to being a safe driver.
Lol, that was supposed to be ".4-5", not "4-5". Guess that's what I get for typing too fast.

Well 75% of Google searching says 60hz-60 fps, but in many cases it does say they don't fully understand, maybe I am wrong but I am going by the larger amount of 60fps I see in searches.
Most of the sites that say 60fps is not enough don't actually give any details as to how they found 60fps to be wrong, maybe I missed something.

Im also sure some lights are on-off rapidly, at the speed they do it the eye just see's on, never off.

----

Should be less than 100fps or on-off 100 times per second. Somewhere around 50-60hz, below this should flicker to the eye.

Why Do LED Lights Flicker On Video? - LED & Lighting Info (ledlightinginfo.com)

Either way you can measure they eye in Hz or FPS, when it stops seeing a difference.
"Most google searching" is quite often not a particularly good source, especially as oft-repeated sourceless truisms tend to score well in terms of SEO. Most people repeating this from my experience have heard it from some unnamed source who in turn did not provide any trustworthy sources for their data.

As for that LED flicker thing, again, remember that we don't even know if the human eye has something equivalent to a "refresh rate" or "fps" at all. For example, flickering lights are much more easily spotted if you're moving than if you're standing still. Most likely human vision functions in a far more flexible way - remember, our brains do huge amounts of processing on what our eyes see before we even actually perceive it, such as filling in blind spots (there's one per eye after all), stitching together two eyes into one field of view, interpolating imagery while the eye is moving, and a bunch more. Precisely what the "raw input data" from our eyes is, whether it's somehow divided into distinct "images" or if it's a more blended-together continuous stream of signals? And how does processing affect this; what is the "output" that is available to our consciousness from the visual cortex? From what I've seen, we really have no idea. What we do know is that there are measurable differences in reaction times between even 240Hz and 360Hz displays - though quite possibly not for everyone. Vision is also highly individual, after all. It's the same thing with "resolution" - human vision isn't comparable to a grid of pixels, as we can make out far higher amounts of detail in some scenarios than others (we can for example spot jaggies and unevenness in extremely fine diagonal lines, while grids or larger shapes like letters or symbols are perceived at far lower detail levels. And so on, and so on.

The desire to attempt to quantify the immensely complex and nuanced workings of the human sensory apparatus - which far outstrips anything we can produce technologically - is a really, really bad habit, and it tries to apply standards for human-made creations onto complex biological and neurological functions that we barely understand at all. Trying to understand the body as if it were a human-made technology brings with it a ton of biases and uncommunicated implications that will inevitably skew any findings and limit our possibilities for achieving a functional and useful understanding of it, and will inevitably be both misleading and reductive.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
999 (4.31/day)
Well I'm not going to debate you know more about it than I do, Google is a perfectly fine source for info as long as you filter crap blogs and go for documented info (same as reading a book).

I do have a question, why is it if you wave back and forth your hand, with your fingers spread, your fingers are more ghostly, until they slow down to change direction.
Surely this is to do with the rate the human eye draws an image (or a frame in computer terms), it doesn't seem very high.

If we used the light frames (on-off), at 100-120 times per second, this is seen as always on, If my eyes could do 240fps, I should see flicker, and off frames?

Also if you where moving away from an object at the speed of light, whilst looking at it, you should see nothing right? Given the light doesn't reach your eye.
Any previous image should be hitting the back of my head, which will probably kill me with heat, if I was facing the other direction, probably blind then dead.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
2,804 (0.76/day)
Location
US of A
System Name gaming
Processor Intel i7-9700k @ 4.9ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 3
Cooling Noctua U12A
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1660 Ti OC 6G
Storage Crucial MX500, Western Digital 550N NVMe, Crucial P1 NVMe, SanDisk Ultra 3D, WD Blue 3D
Display(s) LG 27GL83A-B & Dell - SE2717HR 27"
Case Phanteks P400A w/ Noctua fans
Audio Device(s) Klipsch pro-media 2.1 speakers
Power Supply Seasonioc Focus Plus 650w
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G15 original
Software Win 10
Benchmark Scores i can finally play crysis
I prefer the calm beauty of watching a video at .000001 FPS

 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
4,279 (2.76/day)
Location
Norwegian, currently in Lund, Sweden
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Biostar X370GTN
Cooling Custom CPU+GPU water loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3200 C16
Video Card(s) AMD R9 Fury X
Storage 500GB 960 Evo (OS ++), 500GB 850 Evo (Games)
Display(s) Dell U2711
Case NZXT H200i
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Lenovo Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint
Software Windows 10 Pro
Well I'm not going to debate you know more about it than I do, Google is a perfectly fine source for info as long as you filter crap blogs and go for documented info (same as reading a book).

I do have a question, why is it if you wave back and forth your hand, with your fingers spread, your fingers are more ghostly, until they slow down to change direction.
Surely this is to do with the rate the human eye draws an image (or a frame in computer terms), it doesn't seem very high.

If we used the light frames (on-off), at 100-120 times per second, this is seen as always on, If my eyes could do 240fps, I should see flicker, and off frames?

Also if you where moving away from an object at the speed of light, whilst looking at it, you should see nothing right? Given the light doesn't reach your eye.
Any previous image should be hitting the back of my head, which will probably kill me with heat, if I was facing the other direction, probably blind then dead.
You're still thinking of this from a digital, human-made technology frame of mind. The "if I can't see flicker at X Hz, then the eye must be slower than that" test only applies if a) the eye captures distinct and whole frames, b) captures them at an even cadence, c) has no smoohting/blending/etc. applied, d) has synced "framerates" for both eyes, e) reacts with equal sensitivity to extreme brightness changes to all other stimuli, and likely a whole heap of other caveats. Once you start treating this as what it is - an analog system with tons of complex processing steps and unknown modes of operation - then the weaknesses of such a test become apparent, as you can't control for variables and thus can't know if the answers you are getting are actually demonstrating what you want them to. There's nothing saying your eyes couldn't, for example, (and this is assuming a bunch of unknowns such as discrete "frames" captured) be capturing thousands of images a second but blending many of them together to incrase light sensitivity, motion smoothness, etc. - and might also prioritize differently based on contextual clues (such as sudden movement propting faster signalling rather than better processing). That's just as possible as the eye having some fixed discrete maximum frame rate.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
14,245 (4.84/day)
Location
USA
System Name GPD-Q9
Processor Rockchip RK-3288 1.8ghz quad core
Motherboard GPD Q9_V6_150528
Cooling Passive
Memory 2GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Mali T764
Storage 16GB Samsung NAND
Display(s) IPS 1024x600
I'll be the outlier(as usual...:)). I voted no and have blocked them since day one with h264ify. Why? Health reasons. They make me sick.

How sick? The same nausea(from motion sickness) you feel when a video game doesn't agree with you, just throw in some dizziness, the urge to vomit and a splitting headache...and there you go.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool
I knew that conditions like this existed. Had no idea it could be that severe..
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
50,507 (8.23/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles
Processor Ryzen R7 5800X (EK Quantum Velocity block) (PBO tweaked, 4.4-5.05GHz)
Motherboard Asus x570 Gaming-F
Cooling Custom EK loop, 360mm top exhaust rad 280mm front intake rad
Memory 64GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @ 3800 C16
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB - EK Quantum ARGB block w/ active backplate 1750MHz 737mv | 10950MHz VRAM
Storage 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 500GB 850 Evo
Display(s) Gigabyte G32QC + Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2x 32" 1440p 165Hz/144Hz curved )
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Razer Leviathan + Corsair Void pro RGB, Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE
VR HMD Oculus Rift S
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Lots of RGB, so you know it's fast.
One of the best examples i read on this years ago was airforce pilots being able to see one frame different out of 400, and identify the aircraft in that frame


just because we cant see the ENTIRE image and process it, doesnt mean we cant notice one small part of movement, one flicker, one flash *faster*
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
999 (4.31/day)
Was the result consistent? Or was there an overlap based on when the frames started, or any order? Would be interesting if the result was always frame 350.
I remember seeing flicker if a low frequency LED was at the corner of my eye (Old PC indicator LED), if I looked strait at it, it was solid on.

I agree the eye and brain work in different manors, in some cases dumping visual info, or even delaying it.
If you look at a clock, at times the second hand will pause, due to delay, with no updates.

Subliminal messages in video – Do they really work? - BBC R&D
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
7,605 (3.07/day)
Location
USA
One of the best examples i read on this years ago was airforce pilots being able to see one frame different out of 400, and identify the aircraft in that frame


just because we cant see the ENTIRE image and process it, doesnt mean we cant notice one small part of movement, one flicker, one flash *faster*

480hz monitors to the moon!!! :rockout:
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
15,011 (5.99/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Audio Device(s) Situational :)
Power Supply EVGA G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II (Best K/B ever... <3)
Software W10 x64
I have no idea why this question needs to be asked. :confused:

Soap opera effect. Its not new. But everyone figures it out at some point...


Same stuff as we saw when The Hobbit was released with an odd framerate...

As with everything visual and in motion... our brain needs to adjust in processong the information. The actual amount of FPS can vary... 24 to 30 or 50 or 60... remember how gamers now (myself included) perceive 60 as pretty slow now that high refresh is more common. Its even preferable on the desktop.

Maybe its even better to feed your brain varying FPS so you stay nimble? An interesting experiment...
 
Top