• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Poll: Do you like the smoothness of high refresh gaming and/or 60 FPS YouTube videos?

Do you like the smoothness of high refresh gaming and/or 60 FPS YouTube videos?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
243 (0.21/day)
Location
USA
System Name Desktop PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5500
Motherboard MSI B450I Gaming Plus Max Wi-Fi
Cooling Corsair Hydro X Series Custom Loop
Memory 32 (2x16) GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 Super FE
Storage 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSD
Display(s) Vizio 1080p TV Screen (Temporary)
Case Fractal Design Define Nano S
Audio Device(s) Razer Kraken X Headset
Power Supply Corsair RM650x 650W
Mouse Razer DeathAdder V2 Gaming Mouse
Keyboard Razer Cynosa Lite Gaming Keyboard
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Software Windows 10 Home 64 Bit
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Time Spy: 8706 (Stock)
Heck, if our eyes worked at 60Hz driving at highway speeds would be pretty dangerous, and you'd have moved 4-5 meters between each time your eyes "refreshed". If that was the case, highway fatalities would be staggeringly high.

4-5 meters multiplied by 60 Hz is equal to 240-300 m/s, which is roughly the speed of a jet liner. Highway speeds are much slower, around 30 m/s.

But I get your point. Having split-second response time is essential to being a safe driver.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
2,762 (2.25/day)
Well 75% of Google searching says 60hz-60 fps, but in many cases it does say they don't fully understand, maybe I am wrong but I am going by the larger amount of 60fps I see in searches.
Most of the sites that say 60fps is not enough don't actually give any details as to how they found 60fps to be wrong, maybe I missed something.

Im also sure some lights are on-off rapidly, at the speed they do it the eye just see's on, never off.

----

Should be less than 100fps or on-off 100 times per second. Somewhere around 50-60hz, below this should flicker to the eye.

Why Do LED Lights Flicker On Video? - LED & Lighting Info (ledlightinginfo.com)

Either way you can measure they eye in Hz or FPS, when it stops seeing a difference.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.05/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
4-5 meters multiplied by 60 Hz is equal to 240-300 m/s, which is roughly the speed of a jet liner. Highway speeds are much slower, around 30 m/s.

But I get your point. Having split-second response time is essential to being a safe driver.
Lol, that was supposed to be ".4-5", not "4-5". Guess that's what I get for typing too fast.

Well 75% of Google searching says 60hz-60 fps, but in many cases it does say they don't fully understand, maybe I am wrong but I am going by the larger amount of 60fps I see in searches.
Most of the sites that say 60fps is not enough don't actually give any details as to how they found 60fps to be wrong, maybe I missed something.

Im also sure some lights are on-off rapidly, at the speed they do it the eye just see's on, never off.

----

Should be less than 100fps or on-off 100 times per second. Somewhere around 50-60hz, below this should flicker to the eye.

Why Do LED Lights Flicker On Video? - LED & Lighting Info (ledlightinginfo.com)

Either way you can measure they eye in Hz or FPS, when it stops seeing a difference.
"Most google searching" is quite often not a particularly good source, especially as oft-repeated sourceless truisms tend to score well in terms of SEO. Most people repeating this from my experience have heard it from some unnamed source who in turn did not provide any trustworthy sources for their data.

As for that LED flicker thing, again, remember that we don't even know if the human eye has something equivalent to a "refresh rate" or "fps" at all. For example, flickering lights are much more easily spotted if you're moving than if you're standing still. Most likely human vision functions in a far more flexible way - remember, our brains do huge amounts of processing on what our eyes see before we even actually perceive it, such as filling in blind spots (there's one per eye after all), stitching together two eyes into one field of view, interpolating imagery while the eye is moving, and a bunch more. Precisely what the "raw input data" from our eyes is, whether it's somehow divided into distinct "images" or if it's a more blended-together continuous stream of signals? And how does processing affect this; what is the "output" that is available to our consciousness from the visual cortex? From what I've seen, we really have no idea. What we do know is that there are measurable differences in reaction times between even 240Hz and 360Hz displays - though quite possibly not for everyone. Vision is also highly individual, after all. It's the same thing with "resolution" - human vision isn't comparable to a grid of pixels, as we can make out far higher amounts of detail in some scenarios than others (we can for example spot jaggies and unevenness in extremely fine diagonal lines, while grids or larger shapes like letters or symbols are perceived at far lower detail levels. And so on, and so on.

The desire to attempt to quantify the immensely complex and nuanced workings of the human sensory apparatus - which far outstrips anything we can produce technologically - is a really, really bad habit, and it tries to apply standards for human-made creations onto complex biological and neurological functions that we barely understand at all. Trying to understand the body as if it were a human-made technology brings with it a ton of biases and uncommunicated implications that will inevitably skew any findings and limit our possibilities for achieving a functional and useful understanding of it, and will inevitably be both misleading and reductive.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
2,762 (2.25/day)
Well I'm not going to debate you know more about it than I do, Google is a perfectly fine source for info as long as you filter crap blogs and go for documented info (same as reading a book).

I do have a question, why is it if you wave back and forth your hand, with your fingers spread, your fingers are more ghostly, until they slow down to change direction.
Surely this is to do with the rate the human eye draws an image (or a frame in computer terms), it doesn't seem very high.

If we used the light frames (on-off), at 100-120 times per second, this is seen as always on, If my eyes could do 240fps, I should see flicker, and off frames?

Also if you where moving away from an object at the speed of light, whilst looking at it, you should see nothing right? Given the light doesn't reach your eye.
Any previous image should be hitting the back of my head, which will probably kill me with heat, if I was facing the other direction, probably blind then dead.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
3,850 (0.82/day)
Location
in a van down by the river
Processor faster at instructions than yours
Motherboard more nurturing than yours
Cooling frostier than yours
Memory superior scheduling & haphazardly entry than yours
Video Card(s) better rasterization than yours
Storage more ample than yours
Display(s) increased pixels than yours
Case fancier than yours
Audio Device(s) further audible than yours
Power Supply additional amps x volts than yours
Mouse without as much gnawing as yours
Keyboard less clicky than yours
VR HMD not as odd looking as yours
Software extra mushier than yours
Benchmark Scores up yours
I prefer the calm beauty of watching a video at .000001 FPS

 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.05/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Well I'm not going to debate you know more about it than I do, Google is a perfectly fine source for info as long as you filter crap blogs and go for documented info (same as reading a book).

I do have a question, why is it if you wave back and forth your hand, with your fingers spread, your fingers are more ghostly, until they slow down to change direction.
Surely this is to do with the rate the human eye draws an image (or a frame in computer terms), it doesn't seem very high.

If we used the light frames (on-off), at 100-120 times per second, this is seen as always on, If my eyes could do 240fps, I should see flicker, and off frames?

Also if you where moving away from an object at the speed of light, whilst looking at it, you should see nothing right? Given the light doesn't reach your eye.
Any previous image should be hitting the back of my head, which will probably kill me with heat, if I was facing the other direction, probably blind then dead.
You're still thinking of this from a digital, human-made technology frame of mind. The "if I can't see flicker at X Hz, then the eye must be slower than that" test only applies if a) the eye captures distinct and whole frames, b) captures them at an even cadence, c) has no smoohting/blending/etc. applied, d) has synced "framerates" for both eyes, e) reacts with equal sensitivity to extreme brightness changes to all other stimuli, and likely a whole heap of other caveats. Once you start treating this as what it is - an analog system with tons of complex processing steps and unknown modes of operation - then the weaknesses of such a test become apparent, as you can't control for variables and thus can't know if the answers you are getting are actually demonstrating what you want them to. There's nothing saying your eyes couldn't, for example, (and this is assuming a bunch of unknowns such as discrete "frames" captured) be capturing thousands of images a second but blending many of them together to incrase light sensitivity, motion smoothness, etc. - and might also prioritize differently based on contextual clues (such as sudden movement propting faster signalling rather than better processing). That's just as possible as the eye having some fixed discrete maximum frame rate.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.48/day)
I'll be the outlier(as usual...:)). I voted no and have blocked them since day one with h264ify. Why? Health reasons. They make me sick.

How sick? The same nausea(from motion sickness) you feel when a video game doesn't agree with you, just throw in some dizziness, the urge to vomit and a splitting headache...and there you go.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool
I knew that conditions like this existed. Had no idea it could be that severe..
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.19/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
One of the best examples i read on this years ago was airforce pilots being able to see one frame different out of 400, and identify the aircraft in that frame


just because we cant see the ENTIRE image and process it, doesnt mean we cant notice one small part of movement, one flicker, one flash *faster*
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
2,762 (2.25/day)
Was the result consistent? Or was there an overlap based on when the frames started, or any order? Would be interesting if the result was always frame 350.
I remember seeing flicker if a low frequency LED was at the corner of my eye (Old PC indicator LED), if I looked strait at it, it was solid on.

I agree the eye and brain work in different manors, in some cases dumping visual info, or even delaying it.
If you look at a clock, at times the second hand will pause, due to delay, with no updates.

Subliminal messages in video – Do they really work? - BBC R&D
 
Last edited:

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,911 (4.58/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
One of the best examples i read on this years ago was airforce pilots being able to see one frame different out of 400, and identify the aircraft in that frame


just because we cant see the ENTIRE image and process it, doesnt mean we cant notice one small part of movement, one flicker, one flash *faster*

480hz monitors to the moon!!! :rockout:
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,906 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I have no idea why this question needs to be asked. :confused:

Soap opera effect. Its not new. But everyone figures it out at some point...


Same stuff as we saw when The Hobbit was released with an odd framerate...

As with everything visual and in motion... our brain needs to adjust in processong the information. The actual amount of FPS can vary... 24 to 30 or 50 or 60... remember how gamers now (myself included) perceive 60 as pretty slow now that high refresh is more common. Its even preferable on the desktop.

Maybe its even better to feed your brain varying FPS so you stay nimble? An interesting experiment...
 
Top