• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Pre-Built manufacturers might be doing away with CMOS/User changable BIOSes!?

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,425 (5.49/day)
Likes
10,577
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K@4.8GHz(Quick and dirty)
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#1
Well I got an interesting rumor from the rumor mill around my work. Basically, manufacturers such as Dell/HP/Gateway will be switching to a new system in the near future that eliminates the CMOS. Instead the proper settings will be embedded in the BIOS chip itself, and no options will be user changable.

According to the rumor, they are doing this to help cut down on the number of warranty claims and tech support calls they get that were the result of a wrong BIOS setting. This will also decrease motherboard costs, as it will eliminate the need for the onboard battery and CMOS chip.

I would assume that the Optical Drive would be locked as the first boot device, or at least that is what I hope, since it would make working on these computers a real pain in the ass otherwise, unless of course they at least give us the option to select a different boot device by pushing a button during POST.

Of course, the first thing I asked was how the date and time would work. The only way I could figure it would work is one of the manufacturer's start up apps sets the proper time every boot-up from the time servers, but that seems kind of like a crappy solution(though I wouldn't expect much more than a crappy solution from pre-built companies).

I know this probably won't effect a whole lot of us in this forum because most of us build our own, but some of us don't and a lot of us probably work on pre-built computers for friends/family/work.

Just thought I'd pass on the info.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
1,226 (0.36/day)
Likes
179
Location
Metro Atlanta
Processor Intel i5 2550K @ 4.4Ghz
Motherboard Asrock Extreme3 Gen3
Cooling CM Hyper 212+
Memory 16Gb (4x4) XMS3 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX470
Storage OCZ Vertex 3 - 240GB
Display(s) (2) Acer 24" LCD
Case Bitfenix Raider
Power Supply SILVERSTONE Strider Gold Evolution SST-ST1000-G Evolution 1000W
Software Windows 7 Pro x64 | Backtrack 5 R2
#2
Oh....great. Maybe it wont be so bad. I kinda like them being able to change the BIOS, makes business moar betta. Now this is something else to make my revenue decline...
 

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
34,519 (9.18/day)
Likes
17,526
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name MRE-grade Potato
Processor Intel Core i7-4770K
Motherboard ASUS Z97-A
Cooling Xigmatek Aegir CPU Cooler
Memory 2x 8GB Kingston HyperX Beast DDR3-1866
Video Card(s) 2x ZOTAC GeForce GTX 970
Storage ADATA SU800 512GB + Intel SSD320 120GB + Patriot WildFire 120GB
Display(s) Samsung U28D590 28-inch 4K UHD
Case Cooler Master CM690 1st Gen
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX850W
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard Microsoft Sidewinder X4
Software Windows 10 Pro
#4
Such a thing was around for ages. We had a Compaq Pressario Pentium 133 MHz "high-end multimedia" desktop back in 1995 which had no user changeable BIOS. It detected drives on each boot, and had a fixed boot order of removable disks > fixed disks. Stuff such as disabling audio, VGA etc were done using jumpers. It had two motherboards (one holding the system, and the other with expansion slots and power. The slots board itself had a huge slot on which the main board sat.

Later Compaq released a boot floppy that had a BIOS setup utility with mouse-driven GUI with 256 color graphics and icons (the utility didn't need an OS to run). To save changes it simply flashed the BIOS.
 

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
18,586 (4.55/day)
Likes
3,196
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i5 2400 :: Athlon II x4 630
Motherboard MSI H67-G43-B3 :: GIgabyte GA-770T-USB3
Cooling Corsair H70 :: Thermaltake Big Typhoon
Memory 4x2GB DDR3 1333 :: 2x1GB DDR3 1333
Video Card(s) 2x PNY GTX1070 :: GT720
Storage Plextor M5s 128GB, WDC Black 500GB :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, WD RE3 1TB
Display(s) Acer P216HL HDMI :: None
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - iLive IT153B Soundbar (optical) :: None
Power Supply Corsair CX600w :: Unknown
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
#5
Meh, no major loss. From the prebuilt BIOSes I've seen, there's nothing to get a boner about in there anyway. As long as I can change whatever I want on my custom builds, I'm fine.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,425 (5.49/day)
Likes
10,577
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K@4.8GHz(Quick and dirty)
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#6
Meh, no major loss. From the prebuilt BIOSes I've seen, there's nothing to get a boner about in there anyway. As long as I can change whatever I want on my custom builds, I'm fine.
I'm more worried about chaning the Boot order, and disabling things that might be causing problems. Such as the onboard NIC causing BSOD at boot, and disabling it in the BIOS fixes it.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,822 (1.54/day)
Likes
618
Processor Core I7 3770K@4.3Ghz
Motherboard AsRock Z77 Extreme
Cooling Cooler Master Seidon 120M
Memory 12Gb G.Skill Sniper
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1070
Storage Sandisk SSD + 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200
Display(s) IPS Asus 26inch
Case Antec 300
Audio Device(s) Xonar DG
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G2
Software Windows 10/Windows 7
#7
the last laptop I bought had a bios that was so stripped down and useless that the only thing you could do is change the order of the cd and hdd, and look at the system specs, had no options to disable anything, bought a card got a IRQ confict and can't fix it.
 
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5,167 (1.63/day)
Likes
944
Processor Intel Core i5-3570K
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI
Cooling Corsair A70 (Passive)
Memory Samsung 8GB MV-3V4G3D/US
Storage Samsung PM841 256GB
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp U2412M
Case BitFenix Prodigy (Arctic White)
Power Supply FSP Zen 400 (Fanless)
Software OS X 10.9.1 Mavericks
#8
Wow... the BIOS'es that come with prebuilts are terrible enough, now they're going to completely remove it?

I can see this affecting businesses of those who open their own computer shops, no more doing easy upgrades for customers with prebuilts...
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,425 (5.49/day)
Likes
10,577
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K@4.8GHz(Quick and dirty)
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#9
Wow... the BIOS'es that come with prebuilts are terrible enough, now they're going to completely remove it?

I can see this affecting businesses of those who open their own computer shops, no more doing easy upgrades for customers with prebuilts...
I don't think it will be too big of an issue for easy upgrades. The Processor/Memory/HDD/ODD should all be detected during POST, they aren't pre-set in the BIOS, so any upgrades there shouldn't be an issue. Unless of course they totally bork up the boot order.
 

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
17,223 (4.38/day)
Likes
5,418
Location
London,UK
System Name Codename: Rapture X Mk.VI {Still....MoonPig Edition}
Processor Intel 3930k@4.5Ghz
Motherboard Asus P9X79 PRO
Cooling Corsair H105 {2x Corsair ML 120 Pro}|VRM: Antec Spotcool 100
Memory 32GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX Beast 2400Mhz {8x4GB}
Video Card(s) MSI 1070 Gaming X (Samsung)
Storage 512GB Samsung 850 Pro (Boot)|1x 512GB Crucial MX100|2x 3TB Toshiba DT01ACA300
Display(s) Asus PB278Q 27"
Case Corsair 760T (White) {1x140mm NB PK-3, 2x Corsair AF140}
Audio Device(s) Creative SB Z {Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 }
Power Supply Corsair AX760
Mouse Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard Duckyshine Dead LED(s) III
Software Windows 7 7600 x64
Benchmark Scores ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)
#10
Wow... the BIOS'es that come with prebuilts are terrible enough
IMO their not always bad -its different from the early days (1990-1999) when an OEMs use to run really cheap Foxxcon or ECS boards that had no model number with custom locked down bios's - no cpu or ram tweaking options. it was just a extremely stripped down bios. but later on when the demand for computers was starting to increase they started getting higher quality parts in - they stopped locking the bios down & just had their logo come up when you boot the system up.

this new idea seems really really shit & if its really gonna happen then thank god I can build my own machines.
 
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
5,167 (1.63/day)
Likes
944
Processor Intel Core i5-3570K
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI
Cooling Corsair A70 (Passive)
Memory Samsung 8GB MV-3V4G3D/US
Storage Samsung PM841 256GB
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp U2412M
Case BitFenix Prodigy (Arctic White)
Power Supply FSP Zen 400 (Fanless)
Software OS X 10.9.1 Mavericks
#11
IMO their not always bad -its different from the early days (1990-1999) when an OEMs use to run really cheap Foxxcon or ECS boards that had no model number with custom locked down bios's - no cpu or ram tweaking options. it was just a extremely stripped down bios. but later on when the demand for computers was starting to increase they started getting higher quality parts in - they stopped locking the bios down & just had their logo come up when you boot the system up.

this new idea seems really really shit & if its really gonna happen then thank god I can build my own machines.
My HP Pavilion from '06 had a stripped down BIOS. All I could change was the boot order and date/time and some other stuff like onboard audio etc etc. The issue is still around, this is even worse.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,425 (5.49/day)
Likes
10,577
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K@4.8GHz(Quick and dirty)
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#12
My HP Pavilion from '06 had a stripped down BIOS. All I could change was the boot order and date/time and some other stuff like onboard audio etc etc. The issue is still around, this is even worse.
I've seen BIOSes in pre-builts go both ways. None have ever had overclocking options*, obviously. However, I've seen some that had a fair bit of options to play around with, like amount of system RAM the onboard video uses and such, along with adjustments for memory speed and timings, the options to turn on and off certain features of the CPU, enable or disable RAID/ACHI, and I've seen some that let you change boot order and thats about it.

However, I've also bought boards for custom built machines that completely lacked overclocking functionality also. That is a common thing with most Intel motherboards actually, espcially their mATX boards. Obviously, ASUS and the other motherboard manufacturers tend to use more stipped down BIOSes for their OEM boards then they do for the custom boards.

*There are obviously some pre-built machines that overclocking is actually a selling feature, so it is included. The HP Blackbird is one such machine, as are the higher end Dell XPS/Alienware machines.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
1,140 (0.29/day)
Likes
63
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
System Name Cozad (Asus G60JX)
Processor Core i5 M 430
Memory 8 GB DDR3 1066
Video Card(s) nVidia GeForce 360M
Storage 500GB
Display(s) 16 inch LED LCD
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
#13
It's EFI I bet - Apple already uses it and it's been supported since Vista SP1 - EFI and EFI compatible hardware could lead to the elimination of device drivers - the firmwares would just be updated as needed on the devices and EFI would handle the rest - that's what I heard a few years ago at least - no sign of it happening though.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
510 (0.17/day)
Likes
73
Location
UK South
System Name AMD FX
Processor AMD FX 8350 @ 4.8Ghz
Motherboard Asus Sabretooth 990FX R2.0
Cooling Corsair H100
Memory 16GB Corsair Vegance 1866
Video Card(s) AMD HD7970 Gigabyte
Storage Sandisk Extreme SSD, 500gb SG Sata
Display(s) Samsung 2333sw
Case HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 750w
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
#14
i can see this causing problems, how many times have you told someone (who brought a pre fab) disable this or that in bios and see if it boots ,change this to that etc and see if BSOD goes away.
i repair lots of computers most being pre fabs like dell, emachines etc, and the bios can be a lifesaver.
even if it did cut down on costs for motherboard production which i doubt because companys would probably end up having to make 2 versions of the same board one for the retail companys dell etc and one for the end user who purchases from shop. that cost would never be past on same as always.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
14,672 (3.96/day)
Likes
8,260
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
#15
Shit, I hope this rumour is false. :eek: I work in IT and quite often have to fiddle with the BIOS of our desktops and laptops (HP & Toshiba mainly).

There's too many things that would be screwed up by this, so I can't see it happening. It sounds like a classic April Fool story (yes I know it's the 2nd) if anything...

News from a credible source or it's not happening.
 

Phxprovost

Xtreme Refugee
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
1,217 (0.38/day)
Likes
260
Location
Pennsylvania
System Name Result of Boredom
Processor AMD FX-6350
Motherboard ASUS M5A97
Cooling Enzo Tech Extreme-X
Memory 16gb ddr3
Video Card(s) XFX R9 290
Display(s) Asus 24in (1920X1080) X 2 @144hz
Case NZXT S340
Software WIN7 64bit HP
#16
it my just be my personality but i see horrible things coming out of this. Sure it starts with the prebuilts...but then maybe it moves to the low end of DIY....then the mid range......then ultimately we will end up having to pay for the "enthusiast" mobos with the bios level control :rolleyes:

more ot and less parinoid: Actually seems like a pretty good idea for the prebuilt section. :toast:
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
22,432 (5.77/day)
Likes
8,947
Location
'Merica. The Great SOUTH!
System Name TheMailbox 5.0 / The Mailbox 4.5
Processor RYZEN 1700X / Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2GHz
Motherboard Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 / Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH Intel LGA 1155
Cooling MasterLiquid PRO 280 / Scythe Katana 4
Memory ADATA RGB 16GB DDR4 2666 16-16-16-39 / G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) MSI 1080 "Duke" with 8Gb of RAM. Boost Clock 1847 MHz / ASUS 780ti
Storage 256Gb M4 SSD / 128Gb Agelity 4 SSD , 500Gb WD (7200)
Display(s) LG 29" Class 21:9 UltraWide® IPS LED Monitor 2560 x 1080 / Dell 27"
Case Cooler Master MASTERBOX 5t / Cooler Master 922 HAF
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec / SupremeFX X-Fi with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-750PX 750W Platinum / SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei (RAW) / Logitech G5
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow / Logitech (Unknown)
Software Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
Benchmark Scores Benching is for bitches.
#17
Kinda sounds like Apples firmware garbage.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
1,874 (0.38/day)
Likes
256
Location
The Kingdom of Norway
System Name Wiak's Gaming Rig 2017
Processor Ryzen 1700X
Motherboard ASUS PRIME X370-PRO
Cooling Noctua
Memory Corsair Vengenace LPX 3200 CL16 @ 2933
Video Card(s) MSI Radeon 480 8GB Gaming X
Storage Samsung 960 EVO 500GB / Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Case Corsair 200R
Power Supply Corsair AX850
Mouse Corsair Sabre Laser
Keyboard Logitech Orion Brown (G610)
#18
I would assume that the Optical Drive would be locked as the first boot device, or at least that is what I hope, since it would make working on these computers a real pain in the ass otherwise, unless of course they at least give us the option to select a different boot device by pushing a button during POST.


Just thought I'd pass on the info.
crap, they should lock the first boot device as USB Storage, then the second CD/DVD ROM and the third Hard drive

so people can update their bios using usb sticks ;)

btw i think apple uses efi, and its the next gen bios, but i dont know how much apple has locked it, as EFI has been used on some MSI boards to
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
22,432 (5.77/day)
Likes
8,947
Location
'Merica. The Great SOUTH!
System Name TheMailbox 5.0 / The Mailbox 4.5
Processor RYZEN 1700X / Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2GHz
Motherboard Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 / Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH Intel LGA 1155
Cooling MasterLiquid PRO 280 / Scythe Katana 4
Memory ADATA RGB 16GB DDR4 2666 16-16-16-39 / G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) MSI 1080 "Duke" with 8Gb of RAM. Boost Clock 1847 MHz / ASUS 780ti
Storage 256Gb M4 SSD / 128Gb Agelity 4 SSD , 500Gb WD (7200)
Display(s) LG 29" Class 21:9 UltraWide® IPS LED Monitor 2560 x 1080 / Dell 27"
Case Cooler Master MASTERBOX 5t / Cooler Master 922 HAF
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec / SupremeFX X-Fi with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-750PX 750W Platinum / SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei (RAW) / Logitech G5
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow / Logitech (Unknown)
Software Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
Benchmark Scores Benching is for bitches.
#19
crap, they should lock the first boot device as USB Storage, then the second CD/DVD ROM and the third Hard drive

so people can update their bios using usb sticks ;)

btw i think apple uses efi, and its the next gen bios, but i dont know how much apple has locked it, as EFI has been used on some MSI boards to
It sucks.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
1,874 (0.38/day)
Likes
256
Location
The Kingdom of Norway
System Name Wiak's Gaming Rig 2017
Processor Ryzen 1700X
Motherboard ASUS PRIME X370-PRO
Cooling Noctua
Memory Corsair Vengenace LPX 3200 CL16 @ 2933
Video Card(s) MSI Radeon 480 8GB Gaming X
Storage Samsung 960 EVO 500GB / Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Case Corsair 200R
Power Supply Corsair AX850
Mouse Corsair Sabre Laser
Keyboard Logitech Orion Brown (G610)
#20
but in any case, it sucks yep ;)
thats why i dont buy prebuilt unless its a laptop ;)