• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

PS3 'OtherOS' Scandal: Sony 1, Customers 0

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
26,547 (5.20/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 9900K@5.0GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix GTX 1080Ti
Storage 500GB Crucial MX500 + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
All of the documentation that came with the PS3 is archived on Sony's site here.

You're welcome to look through it and try to find any mention of OtherOS. It wasn't on the packaging either, AFAIK. It isn't on my launch 60GB's box or my 80GB 3rd gen Fat unit's box.

The simple fact is that Sony did not advertise this feature. They provided basic support for its use and that is it.
 

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
14,774 (3.11/day)
Location
Mid-Atlantic
System Name Desktop
Processor i5 7500 Kaby Lake
Motherboard AsRock MicroATX Z170M Extreme4
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x 8G Gskill Aegis DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 5700
Storage Samsung NVMe 512
Display(s) LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor with Radeon FreeSync 2
Case Corsair Carbide 400C
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic SSR-650GD Flagship Prime Series 650W Gold
Mouse Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard Code V2B
Software Windows 10
my ps3 manual includes otheros installation procedure. but it was never advertised.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
42,965 (8.83/day)
Processor i7 8700K
Motherboard Asus Maximus Hero X WiFi
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB G.Skill 3200Mhz CL14
Video Card(s) GTX 1080
Storage SSD's
Display(s) Nixeus EDG27
Case Thermaltake Core X5
Audio Device(s) SoundBlaster Zx
Power Supply Corsair H1000i
Mouse Finalmouse Pro
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow Tournament Ed.
I'm still waiting for more games that utilize my light-gun for my Sega Master System. Sega 1, erocker 0. :( They even advertised it, where's the uproar?!!!
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
4,222 (0.94/day)
Location
Geneva, FL, USA
Processor Intel i5-6600
Motherboard ASRock H170M-ITX
Cooling Cooler Master Geminii S524
Memory G.Skill DDR4-2133 16GB (8GB x 2)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte R9-380X 4GB
Storage Samsung 950 EVO 250GB (mSATA)
Display(s) LG 29UM69G-B 2560x1080 IPS
Case Lian Li PC-Q25
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC892
Power Supply Seasonic SS-460FL2
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech G110
Software Windows 10 Pro
my ps3 manual includes otheros installation procedure. but it was never advertised.
Does it say this?

According to the manual, when Sony Computer Entertainment designed the PS3, "it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer."
CnP from Gamespot article.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
1,079 (0.21/day)
Location
Look behind you!!
System Name NEW
Processor Intel 4770 non-K
Motherboard Gigabyte H81M-DS2V
Cooling CM Hyper 212 plus
Memory 16gb Muskin
Video Card(s) XFX 380X 4gb
Storage Sandisk 120gb plus WD blue 1tb
Display(s) AOC 23.5 LED bl
Case XIGMATEK
Audio Device(s) motherboard
Power Supply Cooler Master 500
The thing that irritates me the most out of this whole ordeal is that now you can buy a product which could later, through modification by the manufacturer/distributor, be changed into a different product after sale.

Regardless of your views of Sony and OtherOS; that above is worthy of contemplation as other companies plot more ways to bend the rules in their favour based on this ruling.
Well if you look at the original PS3 to the now PS3 "slim" its a entirely different machine internally.
As for the "OtherOS" option.It was a selling point for me when I bought mine but i dont miss it :rolleyes: At the time the only distros available to install on would only use 1 of the Cells cores not all 7.
But im not taking up for Sony.... pretty much hated them when they added Cinavia DRM Protection play back. MOTHERF&#@^&% :mad:
 

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
14,774 (3.11/day)
Location
Mid-Atlantic
System Name Desktop
Processor i5 7500 Kaby Lake
Motherboard AsRock MicroATX Z170M Extreme4
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x 8G Gskill Aegis DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 5700
Storage Samsung NVMe 512
Display(s) LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor with Radeon FreeSync 2
Case Corsair Carbide 400C
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic SSR-650GD Flagship Prime Series 650W Gold
Mouse Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard Code V2B
Software Windows 10
I'm still waiting for more games that utilize my light-gun for my Sega Master System. Sega 1, erocker 0. :( They even advertised it, where's the uproar?!!!
evil corporations are rolling over you!!!!!!1

Does it say this?



CnP from Gamespot article.
ill check when i get home.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
1,238 (0.27/day)
Location
SoCal
Processor AMD Phenom II 1055T @ 3.6ghz 1.3V
Motherboard Asus M5A97 EVO
Cooling Xigmatek SD1284
Memory 2x4GB Patriot Sector 5 PC3-12800 @ 7-8-7-24-1T 1.7V
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon HD 7950 DD @ 1100/1350 1.185V
Storage OCZ Agility 3 120GB + 2x7200.12 500GB Raid1
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 27" LCD 1440p @ 120hz
Case Cooler Master 690M
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC892
Power Supply Enermax Liberty 620W Eco Edition
Software Windows 7 Professional x64 / Ubuntu 12.04 x64
The reason things slide by here is that because the PS3 is "licensed" to a consumer; you agree to the terms in the End User License Agreement. However, if we actually owned the product, what they did might be illegal. Imagine a car you purchased has some feature (might not've been there when the car first launched, but was available and noted in the manual when you purchased it), and then the manufacturer comes and disables/removes that feature after the sale. That would be something you could easily sue for and win. But that is not the case here.

The question though, is how far can a company's actions go in a EULA? I've mentioned an example like this before, but say the PS3 EULA says that if you put an Xbox 360 disc in your PS3, that they will come and steal your TV, and shoot you in the leg. Now, you purchase a PS3, and boot it up, and agree blindly to the EULA so you can start playing with it. One day, you accidentally put a 360 game in the drive, and some people take your TV and shoot you in the leg. Should you be able to pick a lawsuit against this action, even though you agreed to it?

The sad part is, GeoHot got into PS3 otherOS hacking because Sony refused to allow access to the RSX and other nice hardware features to otherOS. Sony had their reasons for doing so (even though I understand them, I highly disagree with all of them), but that is what prompted the effort in the first place. Then, after removing the feature from older PS3s, after clearly stating they weren't going to do so, that got a whole ton of people (smart, hacking people - ie not the kind of people you want to piss off) to target the PS3, and the rest is history.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
15,925 (3.65/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
The question though, is how far can a company's actions go in a EULA?
Your post brings up some good points, especially the quote above. Let's take a less extreme example, because shooting people is obviously illegal!

So, the EULA states that if you don't use the PS3 as intended, they will completely disable all the software on it. Is this still legal? You've just paid good money for a door stop. What about if they permanently disable networking functionality, or the Blu-ray drive or some other thing? Where's the line? It's not quite so clear cut, is it?

Hence, one can argue that the OtherOS feature should not have been disabled either, given that Jizzler's post said: "According to the manual, when Sony Computer Entertainment designed the PS3, "it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer.

Hence, it's not quite the undocumented feature that newtekie thought, which makes a significant difference.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ventura appeals. If I'd spent the better part of two years fighting this, I'd be really pissed off and I would be likely to. In fact, why did a dismissal take so long in the first place?

And as someone else said some posts back, this is bigger than Sony, because other companies are gonna look at this and see what they can get away with. Overall, this was a bad day for consumer rights.
 
  • Like
Reactions: w3b
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
1,238 (0.27/day)
Location
SoCal
Processor AMD Phenom II 1055T @ 3.6ghz 1.3V
Motherboard Asus M5A97 EVO
Cooling Xigmatek SD1284
Memory 2x4GB Patriot Sector 5 PC3-12800 @ 7-8-7-24-1T 1.7V
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon HD 7950 DD @ 1100/1350 1.185V
Storage OCZ Agility 3 120GB + 2x7200.12 500GB Raid1
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 27" LCD 1440p @ 120hz
Case Cooler Master 690M
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC892
Power Supply Enermax Liberty 620W Eco Edition
Software Windows 7 Professional x64 / Ubuntu 12.04 x64
And as someone else said some posts back, this is bigger than Sony, because other companies are gonna look at this and see what they can get away with. Overall, this was a bad day for consumer rights.
QFT

What some of you guys are missing is that this isn't just about losing access to a feature used by some < 1% of buyers (thus making the consensus be a resounding "who really cares"). It's about setting precedent over these consumer rights.

And sure, shooting people is illegal, but my point was that Sony can do something illegal (albeit to a lesser extreme) simply because the product was licensed rather than sold (and the license was agreed to by the consumer of course).
 

Solaris17

Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
20,976 (4.03/day)
Location
Florida
System Name Venslar
Processor I9 7980XE
Motherboard MSI x299 Tomahawk Arctic
Cooling EK Custom
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4 3000mhz
Video Card(s) Nvidia Titan RTX
Storage 2x 2TB Micron SSDs | 1x ADATA 128SSD | 1x Drevo 256SSD | 1x 1TB 850 EVO | 1x 250GB 960 EVO
Display(s) 3x AOC Q2577PWQ (2k IPS)
Case Inwin 303 White (Thermaltake Ring 120mm Purple accent)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC 1220 on Audio-Technica ATH-AG1
Power Supply Seasonic 1050W Snow
Mouse Roccat Kone Aimo White
Keyboard Ducky Shine 6 Snow White
Software Windows 10 x64 Pro
Well if you look at the original PS3 to the now PS3 "slim" its a entirely different machine internally.
what?
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,035 (0.23/day)
System Name mine
Processor 2600k@5.2ghz 1.41 vcore
Motherboard asrock z77 OC Formula
Cooling pa120.3, apogee HD, mcp655 pump
Memory 16gigs ddr3 1600mhz sammy's @ 1886
Video Card(s) evga gtx470 under water on a seperate loop
Storage Crucial M4 128gig SSD
Display(s) HP 2511x 25inch led
Case none ATM
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply PC Power & Cooling 750watt seasonic x-1250watt(dead)
Software win 8 pro 64bit
i'm a little confused here. what you guy's are saying, is that no-one "owns" a ps3, they are just licensing it from sony. therefor sony can turn on and off features of this item at will? or completely disable its functionality when they release the new model.

i'm glad i don't do consoles.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
15,925 (3.65/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
i'm a little confused here. what you guy's are saying, is that no-one "owns" a ps3, they are just licensing it from sony. therefor sony can turn on and off features of this item at will? or completely disable its functionality when they release the new model.

i'm glad i don't do consoles.
You own the physical hardware of the PS3, but not any of the software, therefore they have you over a barrel.

Unfortunately, most software agreements are similar to this, except that companies are normally mindful of pissing off their customers by removing features and are keen to maintain good PR. These are two things that arrogant Sony obviously don't give a flying fig about. :slap:
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (1.81/day)
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
In the end as long as my PS3 can play twisted metal when it comes out next year, then i'm good. :)
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
26,547 (5.20/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 9900K@5.0GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix GTX 1080Ti
Storage 500GB Crucial MX500 + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
And sure, shooting people is illegal, but my point was that Sony can do something illegal (albeit to a lesser extreme) simply because the product was licensed rather than sold (and the license was agreed to by the consumer of course).
Actually, it would seem they've done nothing illegal. The features of any console, or software for that matter, are not guaranteed to always work and be supported. If so, Sony would be required to keep PSN going forever, and that isn't realistic. Game companies would be required to keep multi-player servers up and available forever, and that is unrealistic as well. That is why they can discontinue any feature of the PS3 at any time if they choose to no longer support it and why everyone words their ToS to allow it.

Unfortunately, most software agreements are similar to this, except that companies are normally mindful of pissing off their customers by removing features and are keen to maintain good PR. These are two things that arrogant Sony obviously don't give a flying fig about.
No they aren't, software companies(especially game companies) disable features all the time. And a lot of software companys at the best only guarantee the features for so long, then they can disable them at any time. Intuit is legendary for this.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,035 (0.23/day)
System Name mine
Processor 2600k@5.2ghz 1.41 vcore
Motherboard asrock z77 OC Formula
Cooling pa120.3, apogee HD, mcp655 pump
Memory 16gigs ddr3 1600mhz sammy's @ 1886
Video Card(s) evga gtx470 under water on a seperate loop
Storage Crucial M4 128gig SSD
Display(s) HP 2511x 25inch led
Case none ATM
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply PC Power & Cooling 750watt seasonic x-1250watt(dead)
Software win 8 pro 64bit
In the end as long as my PS3 can play twisted metal when it comes out next year, then i'm good. :)
twisted metal on the ps1 was one of the best games ever!!!!
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
26,547 (5.20/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 9900K@5.0GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) ASUS Strix GTX 1080Ti
Storage 500GB Crucial MX500 + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
twisted metal on the ps1 was one of the best games ever!!!!
Twisted Metal 2 was freakin' amazing! I lost so much time to that game! Camping on the eiffel tower to kill people when they teleported up was so much fun and then blowing up the tower!
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
1,079 (0.21/day)
Location
Look behind you!!
System Name NEW
Processor Intel 4770 non-K
Motherboard Gigabyte H81M-DS2V
Cooling CM Hyper 212 plus
Memory 16gb Muskin
Video Card(s) XFX 380X 4gb
Storage Sandisk 120gb plus WD blue 1tb
Display(s) AOC 23.5 LED bl
Case XIGMATEK
Audio Device(s) motherboard
Power Supply Cooler Master 500
Well not in function but in layout,looks and quality.

original ps3 vs slim mobo



plus the cooling system,hardrive connection,psu has all changed (some 2 or 3 times)
 
Top