PSU buying advice - Focus PX 750 vs Prime PX 750 vs Prime TX 750

[Athlonite]

Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.

When I'm paying the bills every little counts and at $0.37 per KWh I intend to not to use as much as I can while still doing everything I want to on my PC

 

[Naito]

Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.

Those who pay for electricity? Furthermore, a more efficient PSU generates less heat and less noise as a result.

I have the equivalent to the Prime PX-750. Picked over the titanium range as the 230/240v grid means there is much less difference in efficiency versus a platinum rated model. At the end of the day, I think even a gold rating is enough, just splurged a bit more.

 

[R-T-B]

Take the Focus PX as you like me use 240V if your in England the actual 80+ rating goes up a notch (well almost) vs those using 120V in the likes of the U.S.

When I was doing mining reviews, I tested my Seasonic Prime Titanium at 240V vs 120V for efficiency comparisons. It wasn't really anything to write home about, it was under 1% delta most of the time.

Still I do acknowledge every little bit helps.

 

[Assimilator]

Buy whichever one makes the most sense for your wallet. All of them are top-tier PSUs with excellent warranties, the more expensive ones are more efficient but probably not to a degree you'd notice. I have a Corsair RM750x which is only Gold and the fan doesn't spin most of the time because the unit's so efficient.

 

[DRDOOM]

Bitfenix Whisper M, Super Flower Leadex III, Corsair RM-x, Fractal Design ION+.

Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?

 

[Assimilator]

Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?

They're far less expensive and slightly lower quality/performance, but not that it will likely matter.

 

[phill]

I've just bought a Focus GX 650w unit, think it's pretty decent and feeds my Xeon and 1080 Ti and all the water cooling and fans without any issues at all. Any Seasonic unit is going to be decent and I wouldn't worry too much about which one you went for. As long as its Gold rated, you've nothing much to worry about. For me personally, I tend to go for fully modular as well but that's just a personal preference. Platinum or Titanium units are ok, but they are hugely priced in comparison to a Gold unit, which won't really save you as much as the extra cost for the PSU. Unless you have a bargain on those, I'd personally not bother

What PSU do you currently have? You mention it's a 550w but not the actual model that I could see quickly. If you have a no name (as example) then I'd consider changing it, but if its a decent quality unit, why would you change it? I would have thought that a 550w might be a little close to the mark but otherwise it should be fine

I'd wait for the reviews to come out before thinking "I need to spend cash" just yet

 

[Waldorf]

@Bill_Bright/RAY_90
one difference being that some units had issues with fan sound profile/turning noisy quickly, and it wasnt connected to model/fan size,
so i decided to go with almost identical (quality) EVGA G+, where all fans are quiet.
its voltages are even a bit closer to norm/less fluctuating than my last (P760) Seasonic (not that it was crap).

The higher number the newer the unit, but whatever Gx series you can get that has 10y warranty will be fine,
of course if a Px/Tx is on sale for similar price you could go with that.

 

[Assimilator]

Pretty much all the Gold and higher units offer at least a 10 year warranty nowadays, so that's not a concern.

 

[DRDOOM]

Bitfenix Whisper M, Super Flower Leadex III, Corsair RM-x, Fractal Design ION+.

What is considered the best of the bunch here?

I was initially going to go for the PRIME GX 750 for £150 but it appears the Leadex III has very good reviews and is only £99.

Warranty for the Seasonic is 12 years Vs 7 years for the Leadex but I don't know if that matters.

 

[Waldorf]

@RAY-90
most reviews that tested both the evgas usually got a tick better results than the seasonics.
G1

@Assimilator
not sure when you checked that the last time, but going thru evgas gold units, at least 30-40% are not (3/5/7y) and thats just one brand..

 

[Assimilator]

@Assimilator
not sure when you checked that the last time, but going thru evgas gold units, at least 30-40% are not (3/5/7y) and thats just one brand..

Hence why I said "pretty much", not "all".

 

[juular]

Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?

Not really, they're all on par overall. I mean, you'll be able to find some pros and cons of each unit if you'll read reviews but overall they're pretty much on the same level. All should be good performance and quality, quiet units (with probably only Fractal Design being juust a bit lower than others performance wise), just get cheapest one with warranty length you're comfortable with.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's just multiplication, division, addition and subtraction in this case.

PSU B has 66.7 watts of inefficiency.
PSU C has 200 watts of inefficiency.
That's a pretty significant difference

Yes, but this side discussion is not about 75% efficient PSUs. It is about cost differences (purchase vs. operational costs) between a 90% efficient PSU and a 93-94% efficient PSU. I would think almost all members and regulars of this site already know to get 80PLUS certified (at least Bronze) PSUs and most guests and new readers will quickly learn to.

Example numbers. However, the delta between 417-375=42 and 395-375=20 is basically 100%, or double/half - ie, the 90% efficient PSU generates 42W of heat, while the 95% generates 20W - that making sense yet?

Okay, I see you point but you are talking totally different scales here. The purchase costs is in dollars and the operational costs are in cents. That's a 100 to 1 ratio.

It would take 45.5 hours at a constant load for that 22W difference to consume 1kWh of energy. The loads computers put on power supplies are constantly varying and sitting closer to idle demands most of the time. If you have an UPS with a status display, or a Kill-O-Watt meter, you can see how little most computers pull most of the time. Most people would be surprised.

While I type this, as an example (specs in System Specs), my UPS is reporting just 95W is being used - and that's with two 24" monitors, my wireless router, modem, and a switch too. So the difference between a Gold and Titanium would be less than 4W.

And again, 1kWh of energy costs about 14 cents.

100% agreed. The power consumption shouldn't be the reason you'd be wanting a Titanium PSU assuming current price deltas between Gold, Platinum and TItanium.

Right! I think we are on the same page here.

Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.

Huh? It sure should matter and I bet it does to most. 2 or 3 percentage points should not be a deciding factor (unless everything else is equal) but even if you are not paying the bills (and by your comment, I assume you aren't) you should still want an 80 PLUS certified PSU.

Why? It is important to note that PSUs are inherently inefficient electronics devices. Not only that, they tend to have a "bell" shaped efficiency curve, meaning they only achieve maximum efficiency at one load point, then drop drastically on either side from there. So if a basic, cheap, non 80PLUS compliant PSU is used (using a 400W just to illustrate) it likely tops out at 70% efficient at around 60% load (~240W). Either side of that and efficiency may drop to 60% or even less. That is a lot of wasted energy that goes to heat up the computer room (wasting more energy if that room is being air conditioned).

One of the major advantages to 80PLUS certifications is the relatively "flat" efficiency curve. It is not "bell" shaped. That is the basic "white" 80 PLUS certification requires that PSU to maintain at least 80% efficiency at 20, 50 and 100% loads. That's a good thing.

If nothing else, buying an efficient PSU is simply better for the environment and I would hope that everyone has at least a little "tree hugger" in them - for our children's and grandchildren's sake.

@Bill_Bright/RAY_90
one difference being that some units had issues with fan sound

Excellent point. Have I mentioned that I hate fan noise? Besides the fact better PSUs use higher quality fans, more efficient PSUs generate less heat. This means the fans don't need to spin as fast, making less noise. And many PSUs are designed to keep the fan off completely until some preset thermal threshold is crossed. So, with a properly sized PSU, many can support typing in forums, surfing the Internet, view YouTube and never spin up the fan!

 

[Assimilator]

Excellent point. Have I mentioned that I hate fan noise? Besides the fact better PSUs use higher quality fans, more efficient PSUs generate less heat. This means the fans don't need to spin as fast, making less noise. And many PSUs are designed to keep the fan off completely until some preset thermal threshold is crossed. So, with a properly sized PSU, many can support typing in forums, surfing the Internet, view YouTube and never spin up the fan!

Auto fan-off should be a feature on all PSUs, not just high-end ones. In most PCs, even those used for gaming, the amount of time that the PSU is maximally stressed is miniscule compared to the time it effectively spends at idle. So much energy, and noise, could be saved if every PSU included this feature.

 

[Waldorf]

@Bill_Bright
the problem is, not everyone has a 1050ti nor lives in the US where power/gas/tax is cheap
how about my rig consuming about 120w on idle (x3700 + 2080S + 43in tv), and thats only because everything is limited (boost clock) and screen very dim.
and under load its 300 w avg and tops out at 500 ish w.

what about countries where power is not as cheap?
what when its 25-50 cents/h? now add another 20% vat...

and i havent even counted in the difference under load, when the unit gets warm,reducing efficiency.
not even talking about the 7-10y it will be in use.

i would rather spend the money on higher efficiency, than an over sized psu..

 

[Assimilator]

@Bill_Bright
the problem is, not everyone has a 1050ti nor lives in the US where power/gas/tax is cheap
how about my rig consuming about 120w on idle (x3700 + 2080S + 43in tv), and thats only because everything is limited (boost clock) and screen very dim.
and under load its 300 w avg and tops out at 500 ish w.

what about countries where power is not as cheap?
what when its 25-50 cents/h? now add another 20% vat...

and i havent even counted in the difference under load, when the unit gets warm,reducing efficiency.
not even talking about the 7-10y it will be in use.

i would rather spend the money on higher efficiency, than an over sized psu..

Bill isn't arguing that you shouldn't buy a high-efficiency PSU.

He is arguing that once you get to at least 80 Plus White/standard efficiency, the returns are very much diminishing, particularly compared to the costs - in which he is correct. Although, in terms of cost/benefit, Gold-rated units are pretty much the sweet spot nowadays.

The higher capacity vs higher efficiency argument is also quite valid, since PSUs are most efficient at 50% load: so a 300W PSU run at 100% will not be as efficient as a 600W model run at 50%, assuming both have the same efficiency rating. Further, running the PSU at a middling versus higher load, will put less stress on the components, so it will last longer.

Personally I'd like to see a rebalancing of the 80 Plus scale every year, so that older PSUs are continually falling off the end and new efficiency levels are added for manufacturers to aspire to - especially since most modern PSUs (even low-end units) can easily hit 80% efficiency.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Auto fan-off should be a feature on all PSUs, not just high-end ones.

Not sure about that - but it is a nice feature. At the very least, all PSUs should have a quality fan, as big as will possibly fit in the case. And for sure, all PSU fans should have variable speeds, controlled by heat - or rather the cooling needed. Quality, large fans are almost completely silent when spinning at low RPMs.

So much energy, and noise, could be saved if every PSU included this feature.

Well, a typical 140mm fan consumes 6W or less and that is at maximum RPM. So I don't believe this feature will save much in energy. But noise? Yes. But that too depends on the case as well as the fan noise from other fans, and ambient noise too.

In most PCs, even those used for gaming, the amount of time that the PSU is maximally stressed is miniscule

Agreed.

i would rather spend the money on higher efficiency, than an over sized psu..

I have never, as in NEVER EVER suggested buying an over-sized PSU. If you read back through my posts, I have repeatedly said "properly" sized. Technically, when it comes to optimizing efficiency, that would mean the average demand should sit around the PSU's mid capacity point as that is where the 80PLUS cert dictates the best efficiency.

I do believe buying a PSU that provides a small amount of headroom to allow for an extra hard drive or more RAM in a year or two. But never buying way more power than you need.

what about countries where power is not as cheap?

He is arguing that once you get to at least 80 Plus White/standard efficiency, the returns are very much diminishing, particularly compared to the costs - in which he is correct. Although, in terms of cost/benefit, Gold-rated units are pretty much the sweet spot nowadays.

My argument still applies. I absolutely believe we all should be buying efficient PSUs. But not "White/standard" 80 PLUS. IMO, "Gold" certification is, as noted, the sweet spot. Again, my argument is about spending (or rather "not" spending) extra money on Platinum or Titanium when Gold is just fine as that already requires 90% efficiency at 50% load. Platinum is just 2% better and Titanium only 4%. With a 300W demand, that would only be 6 and 12W difference from the Gold supply. But again, computer components rarely, during any 24 hour period demand that much, and when they do, it is rarely for very long. So it would take years to make up the added cost of Platinum and Titanium over the Gold supply.

If the higher certified supplies ensured they provided better regulation, better ripple suppression, tighter voltage tolerances, quieter operation and a longer life expectancy too, then the added costs might be worth it. But none of those better specs are included.

And of course, your 42 inch TV you are using as your monitor is not being powered by the computer's power supply.

 

[Waldorf]

@Bill_Bright
never said you did (but the way i wrote it seems like it.)

sure, gold is best for most users (80%), but not always, and for everyone,
and there are enough exceptions to the rule, that i like to bring it up.

i dont use the pc for anything but gaming (maybe 10 min surfing before/after, when waiting on team to get on),
so my load is at least 190w or higher, and im not running an 8C cpu + 2080S to play 30y text based mystery games@360p .
so outside menu/lobby etc, my load is actually 300-400, and even 500-550w when running things like the latest AAA @2160p,
and in a country with higher energy cost/taxes, it can be so close, that it does warrant the added cost.
especially when considering sale (i got my first plat 650w SS from MC for less than a gold rated unit from other brands),
or looking at open box/used units from amazon or microcenter.

lol, you got me there. not sure why i listed the moni for psu consumption.
guess i shouldnt answer tech stuff while wasted

 

[djisas]

I bought a prime 750GX recently and I'm not very satisfied, it introduced a ton of white noise into my audio system, had it with onboard sound device and have it with the sound card...

 

[Bill_Bright]

sure, gold is best for most users (80%)

You really still seem confused here. It is not 80%!

Throughout this thread, me and others have many times pointed out how Gold means 90% efficiency at 50% load. Platinum just 2% better at 92% and Titanium at 94%. These are these are with 115VAC inputs. That's why I corrected Assimilator and noted I prefer "Gold" and not White/standard (which is only 80%).

So even if you are demanding 500w, the difference between Gold and Titanium would be a mere 20W. With Ft Washington, MD energy costing just 13.23¢ per kWh, you are still talking many years before you got your money back.

Do the math. Or easier yet, use this Energy Cost Calculator. If you plug in 20 watts, 8 hours per day and your energy costs of $.1323, you can see that amounts to a whopping $.64 savings per month! And that is assuming your computer is pulling 500W continuously for those 8 hours each and every day - which ain't happening!

If you are unsure of the requirements, see this Plug Load Solutions link. They administer the 80 PLUS Certification program. Then hover your mouse over the different 80 PLUS logos and you will see a little popup with the various requirements.

i got my first plat 650w SS from MC for less than a gold rated unit from other brands),

From other brands? That's kinda cheating the argument here. Pretty sure most of are assuming same or at least very comparable/competitive brands. At least I sure am.

 

[JustAnEngineer]

Where I'm located, for more than half of the year, adding an extra 22 watts of waste heat to my room means spending another 2 watts on air conditioning, too.

My strategy is to wait for Newegg, Amazon or B&H to put the SeaSonic Platinum units that I like on sale. Then I buy a new spare when it's cheap that I'll put on the shelf in case I need it for a new build or to replace a failed lesser brand PSU in a family member's PC. I paid $129 (delivered) for the Focus PX-850 that I'm using in my new build. The SS-660XP2 before that cost $92.

 

[Waldorf]

@Bill_Bright
yeah, meant gold/90%
why are you assuming its for my location?
i plan on moving out the country at some point, and by that time i expect the cost to be around 35-40 cents/kw where i move,
and i dont plan swapping (my) psu anymore until it dies.

once i picked a (gold) unit and lets say its sold out, but if i can get the plat/titanium version for same or less (sale/coupon/open box etc),
i will take those over the gold unit from a different brand.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Where I'm located, for more than half of the year, adding an extra 22 watts of waste heat to my room means spending another 2 watts on air conditioning, too.

No it doesn't.

This has turned into a silly nit-picky argument. This will be my last post on this subject.

As stated multiple times already, that 22W is based on the PSU being under a continuous load of many 100s of watts. Computers don't work that way! Other electronics certainly do. Monitors and TVs, for example, have fairly constant demands. But NOT computers!

The load a computer imposes on its PSU is not only constantly varying, but it is sitting closer to its idle demand a greater percentage of the time. Don't believe me? Then get a "good" UPS with AVR that has a status display, or get a kill-a-watt meter and monitor your own usage. I guarantee, unless you are "folding" 24/7/365 looking for a cure for cancer, your power demand the vast majority of the time is much less than you think!

Not only that, even with COVID-19 and being confined to homes, users are NOT sitting in front of their computers 24 hours per day. Not 12 hours, not 8, not even 6 hours. And for sure, they are NOT maxing out the power consumption of their CPUs AND GPUs (AND drives AND RAM AND motherboards too) continuously and simultaneously during their computing sessions either.

Even the most extreme, power demanding games rarely demand maximum power from the components and when they do, it is even more rare they would demand that power from both the CPU and GPU at the same time. But when those demands do occur, they tend to be for short bursts, not continuously.

What that means is that 22W is an extreme and exceptional number that comes into play a few scant minutes per day total! Not hours! The realistic value for the difference between Gold and Titanium is more likely less than what a child's small nightlight consumes (3 - 7W) - but for much fewer hours each day (not all night long).

So it does not matter if power where you live cost $.14 per kWh or $.50 per kWh, we are still talking pennies per month - not dollars per day.

Now I don't care how you spend your money. And for sure, if I could get, for example, a 650W Seasonic or EVGA Platinum or Titanium for the same price of an equivalent quality 650W Seasonic or EVGA Gold, I would jump on that in a heartbeat. But PLEASE, stop trying to justify spending more on a Platinum or Titanium by rationalizing that the better efficiency ratings will save you more in the long run. With very few anecdotal exceptions, that just isn't reality.

 

[DRDOOM]

No it doesn't.

This has turned into a silly nit-picky argument. This will be my last post on this subject.

As stated multiple times already, that 22W is based on the PSU being under a continuous load of many 100s of watts. Computers don't work that way! Other electronics certainly do. Monitors and TVs, for example, have fairly constant demands. But NOT computers!

The load a computer imposes on its PSU is not only constantly varying, but it is sitting closer to its idle demand a greater percentage of the time. Don't believe me? Then get a "good" UPS with AVR that has a status display, or get a kill-a-watt meter and monitor your own usage. I guarantee, unless you are "folding" 24/7/365 looking for a cure for cancer, your power demand the vast majority of the time is much less than you think!

Not only that, even with COVID-19 and being confined to homes, users are NOT sitting in front of their computers 24 hours per day. Not 12 hours, not 8, not even 6 hours. And for sure, they are NOT maxing out the power consumption of their CPUs AND GPUs (AND drives AND RAM AND motherboards too) continuously and simultaneously during their computing sessions either.

Even the most extreme, power demanding games rarely demand maximum power from the components and when they do, it is even more rare they would demand that power from both the CPU and GPU at the same time. But when those demands do occur, they tend to be for short bursts, not continuously.

What that means is that 22W is an extreme and exceptional number that comes into play a few scant minutes per day total! Not hours! The realistic value for the difference between Gold and Titanium is more likely less than what a child's small nightlight consumes (3 - 7W) - but for much fewer hours each day (not all night long).

So it does not matter if power where you live cost $.14 per kWh or $.50 per kWh, we are still talking pennies per month - not dollars per day.

Now I don't care how you spend your money. And for sure, if I could get, for example, a 650W Seasonic or EVGA Platinum or Titanium for the same price of an equivalent quality 650W Seasonic or EVGA Gold, I would jump on that in a heartbeat. But PLEASE, stop trying to justify spending more on a Platinum or Titanium by rationalizing that the better efficiency ratings will save you more in the long run. With very few anecdotal exceptions, that just isn't reality.

So in reality, it makes very little difference between gold, platinum, and titanium power supplies?