Putting together a fairly high-end computer in the new year and could use some guidance

[CLXIV]

Hello! I'll hopefully be putting together a fairly high-end computer in the new year and could use some guidance. The last PC I assembled was Coffee Lake and I know a few things have changed, so I might be a little out of touch.

I won't be picking up the bill for this hardware so it doesn't need to be too value-oriented.

I'm thinking 13700K, 32GB DDR5-6400 CAS32 and an RTX4070 or Ti or whatever it ends up being (I will be paying the energy bill so will definitely benefit from the efficiency of new architecture).

So questions... firstly, I know memory now has "gears" on Intel motherboards (sigh). My current setup has an automatic transmission (XMP) so it's nice and simple, but guess I need to learn this. So what do I need to know about gears? I think the physical retention mechanism has changed too with DDR5? Found a couple of Youtube videos on installing DDR5 but they didn't give any detail on that. I can figure it out though and I expect motherboards still come with manuals

Secondly, coolers - I currently use a Thermalright Macho Le Grande RT and I love it. It delivers Noctua D15 thermal / acoustic performance but with better RAM and PCI-E clearance. I need to talk to Thermalright though about socket 1700 support and also actually find a UK retailer still stocking these. Failing that, what other coolers deliver similar performance to the D15 but with better clearance? Open to all brands and colour schemes (I don't really care about internal looks).

For power supplies, I'd really like something built by FSP. I know Be Quiet used to use FSP for all their units but that's no longer the case and I don't know of an up-to-date reference of which manufacturers are used by which brands. Failing this I can just use another Seasonic I guess.

For the case, what are the best all-round full towers now? I love the Lian Li O11D XL-A for the looks (the one with tinted glass and uncoloured aluminium) but it doesn't look like any air is coming in through the front and I keep trying to stop myself buying cases based on looks. It's unclear whether or not I'll succeed.

I've not mentioned motherboard but I guess it's just whatever the cheapest full ATX option is from MSI or Gigabyte with the current Z-series chipset and wifi. Although I'm generally not going to be going cheap on this, motherboard prices are so insane now I don't think I want to go high-end (there will be no manual overclocking except maybe initially just for my curiosity of how high it will go).

 

[Hyderz]

what purpose is this pc for?

 

[CLXIV]

Gaming. Mostly native Windows games but I would love to emulate some high-res Playstation 3 Ratchet & Clank, hence the overkill CPU.

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/RMx-Series/p/CP-9020201-NA

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Accessories-%7C-Parts/PC-Components/Power-Supplies/600W-PCIe-5-0-12VHPWR-Type-4-PSU-Power-Cable/p/CP-8920284

Liquid Freezer II 360 | Multi-Compatible AiO CPU Water Cooler | ARCTIC

The powerful and multi-compatible AiO CPU water cooling system Liquid Freezer II 360 has been perfectly tailored to suit the needs of gamers and other demanding users.

www.arctic.de

Liquid Freezer II 420 | Multi-Compatible AiO CPU Water Cooler | ARCTIC

The powerful and multi-compatible AiO CPU water cooling system Liquid Freezer II 420 has been perfectly tailored to suit the needs of gamers and other demanding users.

www.arctic.de

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-A-WIFI

MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4

Powered by Intel 13th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, Memory Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr,

www.msi.com

LANCOOL III

<ul> <li aria-level="1">Mid-tower modular chassis for all kinds of configurations</li> <li aria-level="1">Equipped with 4 × 140 PWM fans (ARGB or non-RGB)</li> <li aria-level="1">Featured airflow optimized mesh structure and hinged side panels</li> <li aria-level="1">Supports up to 420...

lian-li.com

 

[JrRacinFan]

Highly recommend giving AM5 motherboards a look. Not saying hey your build wont last the 5-7 years lifespan of AM5. Just mentioning that you could get even more out of the budget you set aside now, and go for that instead. I am no way speaking of this as a fanboi. LGA1700 600 & 700 chipset series motherboards pretty much already done with getting new cpu's on it's socket, aside from the refresh.

 

[maxfly]

Don't sweat the memory. You will still have xmp profiles, so no worries. G1 and G2 are easy to figure out, just google it once you have some time. Plugging it in, is plugging it in lol. If you've inserted ddr4 you'll have no issues with ddr5 modules.

Thermalright will hook you up with an adapter if memory serves. If not Thermalright has some badass hsf that will fit the bill like the
Frost Commander 140- smacks the d15 around, Peerless Assassin 120- trades blows with the d15 and the Phantom Spirit 120se-just came out but looks very promising.

Your in luck! FSP just happens to be leading the way with the new atx 3.0 standard so far. Aaand, they even have their own line of atx 3.0 units coming out soon. If you don't fancy waiting for the new units (no idea when they go on sale) you can always go with one of the older hydro units from a few years ago. Nothing wrong with them. If you do in fact want an atx 3.0 PSU, the best current FSP offering is one from the MSI lineup.

The 011d line is a solid choice for both air and water despite the odd fan placement, compared to what most standard cases go with. Div into it, you'll like it.

Mb, make sure you have enough m.2 slots, usb ports, acceptable audio etc.. and go with a brand you trust. Everything but the bottom of the barrel offers ocing options. You just have to decide what level you want.

And don't forget AMD will be releasing their 7900xtx/xt in a few weeks so you may want to have a look before nailing down a GPU.

GL and enjoy the new rig!

 

[KLiKzg]

I would stay away from Gigabyte products as far as I can...they are OK, just not reliable in a few years time.

Just an experience from 1st hand from GPU & MBO products.

Enjoy the build.

 

[CLXIV]

maxfly thanks for a really helpful response! Forgot to ask - any recommendation for case fans?

I remember when assembling my current setup, from the few case fan reviews online, measured airflow was not even close to advertised airflow with most brands (I think Xigmatek was the one honest exception).

Also, any strong alternatives to Thermalright for CPU coolers? Thermalright is my preference but they're not widely stocked in the UK. Ali Express, eBay etc aren't really options due to VAT (tax) reasons that mean I need a proper UK retailer. Hopefully Amazon gets some more Frost Commander 140 stock.

And a couple of crystal ball questions - firstly, does anyone know up-to-date info on when PCI-E 5.0 SSDs are incoming? I've seen 2023, but other places saying 2024. I think Phison already have controllers out and the NAND is ready, so it's just when SSD manufacturers build a drive around them.

And the next GeForce and upcoming Radeons - do we know if they're using the new power connector or sticking with the classics?

 

[JrRacinFan]

upcoming Radeons

These are confirmed to use older 6 & 8 pin connectors. Unsure if the rumored 7990xtx will use them tho.

 

[CLXIV]

Thanks JrRacinFan, fingers crossed it's the same for the 4070 Ti (I know they'll throw in an adapter if not but I've been hearing bad things about those).

Here's how it's looking so far with a 3070 Ti standing in for whatever the new card ends up being: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/QnsCcb

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (£428.99 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Frost Commander 140 95.5 CFM CPU Cooler (£115.00)
Thermal Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme 2 g Thermal Paste (£24.00 @ Computer Orbit)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£265.98 @ Novatech)
Memory: Kingston Renegade Silver 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory (£258.76 @ More Computers)
Storage: Crucial BX500 480 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB Video Card (£850.00)
Case: Lian Li O11D XL-A ATX Full Tower Case (£213.45 @ Currys PC World)
Power Supply: be quiet! Dark Power 12 750 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (£193.23 @ Technextday)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.31 CFM 120 mm Fan (£11.60 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.31 CFM 120 mm Fan (£11.60 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.31 CFM 120 mm Fan (£11.60 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.31 CFM 120 mm Fan (£11.60 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £2395.81

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-12-05 17:16 GMT+0000

 

[JrRacinFan]

Here's an alternative AMD AM5 cpu/mobo, comes out to be a little cheaper, giving you a little bit more wiggle room towards video card if you want to go this route. 7700X is a hair under in terms of performance of the 13700 I will admit that.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/dsJHrD

 

[CLXIV]

Thanks for the suggestion but the 13700K leads by more than a hair in emulation: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k/15.html

It's really the only CPU-heavy thing I intend on running (I'd just grab a 12400 otherwise for native Windows games).

 

[claes]

I’d consider the o11 air or o11 d evo instead, better intakes than the XL for air cooling.

CPU cooler seems more like a side grade than an upgrade, but whatever you’re into.

The slip stream is a fine fan but you can do a lot better. Phanteks T30c BeQuiet SW4, and Noctua A12-25 come to mind. If you want cheaper fans than the Arctic P12 might be a better option, but given the rest of your build the expense of those other fans is probably worth it.

 

[3x0]

Thanks for the suggestion but the 13700K leads by more than a hair in emulation: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k/15.html

I don't think the Emulators were updated to fully support Zen4 at the time of testing.
For ex. RPCS3 list Zen4 as S-tier https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rpq_2D4Rf3g6O-x2R1fwTSKWvJH7X63kExsVxHnT2Mc/edit#gid=0

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

If you want RAM clearance: Is there a reason you did not consider getting an AIO liquid cooler? Getting one without RGB will spare you quite some money and for the selected CPU a 280mm should be sufficient.

 

[maxfly]

I have to correct my earlier comment. FSP Hydro PTM atx 3.0 are actually released, just not easily available. They sell out the moment they come back in stock.

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

I have to correct my earlier comment. FSP Hydro PTM atx 3.0 are actually released, just not easily available. They sell out the moment they come back in stock.

There is no use buying an overpriced ATX 3.0 PSU atm. It will not add anything usefull an ATX 2.x PSU will not also be able to provide.

 

[CLXIV]

@claes thanks for the suggestions. What alternative air cooler would you recommend?

I should clarify I'm a bit of a weirdo when it comes to fan noise. I think people are making an assumption (an entirely reasonable assumption to be fair) that I want to minimise fan noise. I grew up with 90s PCs that were far from silent and I actually like my PCs to hum. Of course I don't want it to sound like a jet engine but just a comfortable middle ground between silent and deafening.

I only have a vague idea of dBs but I think 37dB on the 1900rpm Slipstreams might be just a tiny bit too much so will drop down to the 1600rpm Slipstreams instead (33dB according to Scythe).

 

[maxfly]

There is no use buying an overpriced ATX 3.0 PSU atm. It will not add anything usefull an ATX 2.x PSU will not also be able to provide.

Mhmm. That's a subject for another thread.

CLXIV has clearly already chosen a PSU.

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

@claes thanks for the suggestions. What alternative air cooler would you recommend?

I should clarify I'm a bit of a weirdo when it comes to fan noise. I think people are making an assumption (an entirely reasonable assumption to be fair) that I want to minimise fan noise. I grew up with 90s PCs that were far from silent and I actually like my PCs to hum. Of course I don't want it to sound like a jet engine but just a comfortable middle ground between silent and deafening.

I only have a vague idea of dBs but I think 37dB on the 1900rpm Slipstreams might be just a tiny bit too much so will drop down to the 1600rpm Slipstreams instead (33dB according to Scythe).

It's a german page but I think you will get an idea about noise levels nonetheless: https://www.ihre-hoerexperten.de/service/presse-und-medien/trends-fakten/wie-laut-ist-das-denn.html

Google-translate should do the job well enough. Normally peoples' threshold for feeling uncomfortable in terms of noice is around 40db. You might be more sensible though.

 

[CLXIV]

Thanks @Hofnaerrchen

@maxfly You are right - I have indeed settled on this PSU. ATX 3.0 would be nice but the main thing is efficiency (since I'm not paying for the unit but will pay for the energy bill).

Couple of motherboard queries - I notice the one weak point reviews identify of this motherboard is a lack of PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot. It was my understanding that no Intel boards offer this and that you have to use a PCI-E card with M.2 slot on it. But I guess not necessarily? I will definitely want to use PCI-E 5.0 M.2 as soon as drives are available. Options:

Gigabyte Z790 Gaming X AX
Gigabyte Z790 UD AX
Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
MSI Pro Z790-P WiFi
MSI Pro Z790-A WiFi
MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi
Asrock Z790 Pro RS WiFi
Asrock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi

I saw the Tomahawk was recommended above (in the DDR4 variant for some reason to accommodate my DDR5... ).

Gigabyte is my least preferred brand. Not because of the reliability comments, or for any sensible reason at all really, but just because I have a Gigabyte board currently, and my last PC had one, and the PC before that, and my little mini PC... they're all still going strong but a change of UEFI scenery would be nice

Overclocking isn't a priority.

Other question is RAM - ranks and banks. I dealt with this years ago for server memory but I've completely forgotten. And now that it has become a consumer RAM consideration too... what should I know? My selected RAM is single rank. Is that preferable?

 

[maxfly]

Thanks @Hofnaerrchen

@maxfly You are right - I have indeed settled on this PSU. ATX 3.0 would be nice but the main thing is efficiency (since I'm not paying for the unit but will pay for the energy bill).

Couple of motherboard queries - I notice the one weak point reviews identify of this motherboard is a lack of PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot. It was my understanding that no Intel boards offer this and that you have to use a PCI-E card with M.2 slot on it. But I guess not necessarily? I will definitely want to use PCI-E 5.0 M.2 as soon as drives are available. Options:

Gigabyte Z790 Gaming X AX
Gigabyte Z790 UD AX
Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
MSI Pro Z790-P WiFi
MSI Pro Z790-A WiFi
MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi
Asrock Z790 Pro RS WiFi
Asrock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi

I saw the Tomahawk was recommended above (in the DDR4 variant for some reason to accommodate my DDR5... ).

Gigabyte is my least preferred brand. Not because of the reliability comments, or for any sensible reason at all really, but just because I have a Gigabyte board currently, and my last PC had one, and the PC before that, and my little mini PC... they're all still going strong but a change of UEFI scenery would be nice

Overclocking isn't a priority.

Other question is RAM - ranks and banks. I dealt with this years ago for server memory but I've completely forgotten. And now that it has become a consumer RAM consideration too... what should I know? My selected RAM is single rank. Is that preferable?

ATX 3.0 does have value in that they are also natively pci-e 5.0 compliant. As well as for future upgrades in regards to the (halfwit) 12vhpwr connector for Nvidia cards going forward. Primarily high end from what I remember, 4090 and 4080.

MBs I can't help much. I haven't been paying them any mind yet (waiting until x-mas finishes cleaning me out hehe).

Memory, you don't have to worry about dual or single rank with ddr5 right now because everything is 16gb single rank. That will change when 32gb dual rank modules hit but your gtg as is.
Your best bet is to match your mb and cpu with the best modules they support, (timings and speed) and that you can fit into the budget of course.

 

[CLXIV]

Ah nice, thanks maxfly. My budget is essentially "don't waste crazy money" e.g. £1000+ anythings. I know I have a thermal paste in there that costs what a decent cooler cost until recently but we're making an exception for that :-D I think the motherboards I'm looking at are stupidly expensive (I always used to pay £150 tops) but I guess that's just how it is now.

Yeah I did read up on ATX 3.0 and it seems to pretty much just be that connector and being able to handle massive power draw spikes lasting a few microseconds that seem to have become an issue with GeForces now. I read today that unfortunately 4070 Ti is confirmed to be the new connector (and it's a 285w TDP card so not exactly low draw, but way lower than the others in the range). So ATX 3.0 would be nice... but I think I can get by without it (not like I have a choice anyway if they can't really be purchased yet).

 

[ir_cow]

Couple of motherboard queries - I notice the one weak point reviews identify of this motherboard is a lack of PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot. It was my understanding that no Intel boards offer this and that you have to use a PCI-E card with M.2 slot on it. But I guess not necessarily? I will definitely want to use PCI-E 5.0 M.2 as soon as drives are available. Options:

Intel 12/13th gen do not have extra PCIe Gen 5 lanes dedicated to M.2 like AMD does. Only way to get M.2 Gen5 on Intel right now is to steal half the x16, which means the first slot runs at Gen5 x8 (if you have the compliant card - none are out yet). The second slot will be disabled. Also anything that populates that M.2 socket (gen3, 4 or 5) will drop the first PCIe it to x8 due to how its wired internally.

 

[CLXIV]

Thanks ir_cow. So to clarify, the graphics card drops to gen 4 x8 (like gen 3 x16, ~16GB/s)? I think I'll definitely be OK with that bandwidth.

Unclear on second slot being disabled though. Are we talking about the Intel motherboards that DO have PCI-E 5.0 M.2? Taking it away from CPU PCI-E lanes that would go to GPU normally, so using the mobo M.2 disables the second actual PCI-E x16 slot?

How about the PCI-E 5.0 adapter cards with M.2 slots for PCI-E 5.0 SSDs - same deal? And are these cards available for purchase yet? And bootable? Sorry. That's a lot of questions.