Question about X58 + Xeon X5660 memory support

[SomebodyOdd]

Hello!

I have a system, that has x58 motherboard from aliexpress and Xeon X5660 cpu (yes, this was an experiment to get cheapest home server that can still run some VMs and it came success).
Right now I want to upgrade it from 8 GB ram to 32 GB. As far as I know, this is the generation of Intel CPUs that has it's memory controller moved from motherboard to CPU itself. Does it mean that motherboard doesn't matter regarding memory support and I can grab 32 GB DDR3 ECC REG stick and use it in this system, since it's supported by a CPU?
Anyone who managed to get similar config to work with single 32GB stick?

 

[silentbogo]

There are some limitations, and it also varies from board to board.
For UDIMMs most brand-name boards max out at 4GB per stick, with some supporting up to 8GB per stick(giving you 48GB theoretical max). Though, it's been only confirmed on few Gigabyte UD and Asus Rampage boards.
For RDIMMs, it also varies from board to board, but in general most x58 won't do more than 8GB per stick.
There's no info on 16GB modules on the internet (nothing but questions and speculations, so I assume most attempts failed), so just to be on a safe side I'd try cheaper 8GB RDIMM modules.
Most two-slot boards on Aliexpress are advertised with 32GB max, but I wouldn't trust those numbers since they may've just copy-pasted numbers from a 4-slot variant of the same board.

 

[SomebodyOdd]

That motherboard only has 2 slots so staying at 16 GB max sounds quite bad for me, as i have some minecraft servers on it that REALLY love ram =)
By the way, if memory controller is in CPU how motherboard can be a part of equation here?

 

[silentbogo]

By the way, if memory controller is in CPU how motherboard can be a part of equation here?

BIOS. While memory controller has "support" for large amounts of ECC memory, your system still needs to address it and map it.

If you really want lots of cores and lots of RAM on the lowest possible budget, the sweetest spot is X79. Not the knock-off chinese boards, but used HP/Dell/Lenovo/Supermicro.
I'm currently in a process of building a little workstation for my office, and so far I've only spent around $150 with some remaining spare parts laying around.
For X79 there are many more options. I've only got a 16GB registered RAM kit right now (it was nearly free, 4x4G), but I'm eyeballing a 64GB kit of Samsung DDR3-1600 RDIMM for under $100(8*8G).

I'd sell that crap and move onto LGA2011. Just don't buy chinese boards off aliexpress - look for proper brand-name boards. Something like Lenovo S30 or HP Z420 currently sells for less than $80 in mint condition. May require some tweaking with sensors and power, but the end-result is above and beyond of what's offered by knockoffs (except overclocking, which is still questionable in my view even for a home server).

 

[SomebodyOdd]

Well, I should've ask on forums first, I guess, cause I already have chinese board and X5660 CPU, so... A lesson for me =)
What CPU would you recommend for minimum cost "kinda good" performance with support for dense memory (like RDIMM 32gb sticks). I don't really care about core counts (though 4cores+ would be a nice to have) but really do care about RAM amounts.
Also, any advice on motherboard shopping? I don't think i can find that hardware here in Russia (especially during lockdown), so something like eBay or something else?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Anyone who managed to get similar config to work with single 32GB stick?

Sadly, no and it can not work. The single dimm limit is 8GB for the X58 chipset. Even though the memory controller is on CPU, the type and max limits are still controlled by the BIOS and chipset and vary from board to board, but hard limit is 8GB.

So in short you will need 3x8GB or 6x8GB to get maximum performance from your ram. Depending on the motherboard you have, DDR3 1866mhz or 2133mhz is possible but I would highly recommend not buying/using any ram that has a default voltage higher than 1.65v as you will burn up the memory controller if you go any higher. Ideally, 1.35v or 1.5v should be your ram voltage goal.

 

[silentbogo]

What CPU would you recommend for minimum cost "kinda good" performance with support for dense memory (like RDIMM 32gb sticks). I don't really care about core counts (though 4cores+ would be a nice to have) but really do care about RAM amounts.

The best one for LGA2011 would be something along the lines of 6-core E5-1650 or E5-1660. Those are still quite cheap, but have much higher base/boost clock than E5-26xx CPUs.
Something like 64GB or 128GB of RAM won't be a problem for those.
If you spend some time hunting for parts, you may find boards with Ivy Bridge EP support, which will give you even more power and more performance benefits.

Some Sandy Bridge boards can be modded to support Ivy Bridge EP, but the process is not always that straightforward. I'm currently in a process of splicing up new firmware for my Z620 v1 board (trying to add new bootloader with NVME boot support and Ivy Bridge EP support at the same time).

 

[Menkveld]

Got a 16gb module to post and have it show up in the bios. Its a 4r4 module. Reg and ecc. Board only seems happy with 6x2gb reg ecc which is 2r8 unfortunately. My 2r4 4gb stick has the same issue as the 16gb one. Showing up but being unable to be used.

 

[Keullo-e]

View attachment 227127
Got a 16gb module to post and have it show up in the bios. Its a 4r4 module. Reg and ecc. Board only seems happy with 6x2gb reg ecc which is 2r8 unfortunately. My 2r4 4gb stick has the same issue as the 16gb one. Showing up but being unable to be used.

Well, by Intel's specs, it supports up to 288GB, so all these limitations are from motherboard manufacturers. Just like my P6X58D-E supports (what Asus says) max 24GB, but many have tried 48GB with success (6x8GB).

And like you said, you have reg ECC and these supports those, so it's a made-up limitation from the board manufacturer. Do you have the latest BIOS?

edit: Also, welcome to TPU!

 

[Menkveld]

Haha thnx!
The memory itself is all working fine, have an ml350g6 in which in worked flawlessly.
am running the f9a bios which is the latest for the x58a-ud7. The memory does show up in the bios. Even matches speeds, can see the timings and such but it doesnt list it as enabled. The memory controller on x58 is on the xeon iirc, hence it works with reg ecc I think. But the 4g stick for example should work fine you’d say..
Do you think its a bios limitation?

(photo doesnt have the 4g stick installed but looked the same as the @384(16gb) stick in the photo with a different size and slightly different timings)

Well, by Intel's specs, it supports up to 288GB, so all these limitations are from motherboard manufacturers. Just like my P6X58D-E supports (what Asus says) max 24GB, but many have tried 48GB with success (6x8GB).

And like you said, you have reg ECC and these supports those, so it's a made-up limitation from the board manufacturer. Do you have the latest BIOS?

edit: Also, welcome to TPU!

 

[Keullo-e]

Haha thnx!
The memory itself is all working fine, have an ml350g6 in which in worked flawlessly.
am running the f9a bios which is the latest for the x58a-ud7. The memory does show up in the bios. Even matches speeds, can see the timings and such but it doesnt list it as enabled. The memory controller on x58 is on the xeon iirc, hence it works with reg ecc I think. But the 4g stick for example should work fine you’d say..
Do you think its a bios limitation?

View attachment 227229
(photo doesnt have the 4g stick installed but looked the same as the @384(16gb) stick in the photo with a different size and slightly different timings)

To be honest, I haven't played around with X58 THAT much, I had one rig about 6 years ago and now I got that my current 2nd rig's guts (Asus P6X58D-E, X5650, 18GB) as I got a good deal, and I just OC'd it to serve as a "console" and a HTPC

And yeah, the northbridge is on the CPU, that's what also it means when the CPU has the support of memory type/speed*/amount. So practically it SHOULD work with as much RAM as the CPU supports, but my wild guess is that the MB manufacturer can limit it so you won't get a WS/server amount.. or something. But on the other hand, I've seen old boards which run fine with double the "supported" amount as modules higher than "supported" were not available when the board was released, so the manufacturer just left the specs as that.

* of course you can run faster than CPU's supported RAM just with a higher divider or bus overclock

Also, check this thread out https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/xeon-owners-club.211143/

 

[Toothless]

Haha thnx!
The memory itself is all working fine, have an ml350g6 in which in worked flawlessly.
am running the f9a bios which is the latest for the x58a-ud7. The memory does show up in the bios. Even matches speeds, can see the timings and such but it doesnt list it as enabled. The memory controller on x58 is on the xeon iirc, hence it works with reg ecc I think. But the 4g stick for example should work fine you’d say..
Do you think its a bios limitation?

View attachment 227229
(photo doesnt have the 4g stick installed but looked the same as the @384(16gb) stick in the photo with a different size and slightly different timings)

It's very much a chipset limitation. Very, very few boards can handle 8GB dimms (EVGA SR-2 has been seen with 96GB)

 

[Keullo-e]

It's very much a chipset limitation. Very, very few boards can handle 8GB dimms (EVGA SR-2 has been seen with 96GB)

Hm, do you mean that X58 limits it but a WS/server variant would work? Never thought about that as the memcontroller is in the CPU

 

[Menkveld]

To be honest, I haven't played around with X58 THAT much, I had one rig about 6 years ago and now I got that my current 2nd rig's guts (Asus P6X58D-E, X5650, 18GB) as I got a good deal, and I just OC'd it to serve as a "console" and a HTPC

And yeah, the northbridge is on the CPU, that's what also it means when the CPU has the support of memory type/speed*/amount. So practically it SHOULD work with as much RAM as the CPU supports, but my wild guess is that the MB manufacturer can limit it so you won't get a WS/server amount.. or something. But on the other hand, I've seen old boards which run fine with double the "supported" amount as modules higher than "supported" were not available when the board was released, so the manufacturer just left the specs as that.

* of course you can run faster than CPU's supported RAM just with a higher divider or bus overclock

Also, check this thread out https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/xeon-owners-club.211143/

Hmmm
I understand that they could have limited it somehow but it was a pretty high end motherboard back then so I would atleast expect those 4gb dimms to work though.
I oced it to about 4.4 on 1.425/1.375V (bios and hwinfo dont fully agree) memory is set to 8x to 1598mhz at a bclk of 192.

 

[Toothless]

Hm, do you mean that X58 limits it but a WS/server variant would work? Never thought about that as the memcontroller is in the CPU

Can't confirm or deny. I seem to be lacking in the 8GB dimm department.

 

[Keullo-e]

Hmmm
I understand that they could have limited it somehow but it was a pretty high end motherboard back then so I would atleast expect those 4gb dimms to work though.
I oced it to about 4.4 on 1.425/1.375V (bios and hwinfo dont fully agree) memory is set to 8x to 1598mhz at a bclk of 192.

6x4GB should work on any X58 board, probably 6x8GB too

Can't confirm or deny. I seem to be lacking in the 8GB dimm department.

In most cases, 6x8GB should also work. My wild guess is that the MB manufacturers' "max support" is from those days when bigger DIMMs didn't exist.

 

[Toothless]

6x4GB should work on any X58 board


In most cases, 6x8GB should also work. My wild guess is that the MB manufacturers' "max support" is from those days when bigger DIMMs didn't exist.

That's part of it, but another part was the 8GB support was ECC only. I can't say I've needed more than 24/32GB in a build.

@Menkveld Where are you located? I might have a 1366 board that would work for you.

 

[Keullo-e]

That's part of it, but another part was the 8GB support was ECC only. I can't say I've needed more than 24/32GB in a build.

Good point about ECC, these days we X58 users do use Xeons and they allow more RAM than i7 ones. Even the 32nm ones seems to be limited to 24GB. I need to check it out later that would 6x8GB non-ECC work on a Xeon. I've always used consumer DIMMs.

On the other hand, ECC is half-free from China these days like these Xeons..

 

[Toothless]

Good point about ECC, these days we X58 users do use Xeons and they allow more RAM than i7 ones. Even the 32nm ones seems to be limited to 24GB. I need to check it out later that would 6x8GB non-ECC work on a Xeon. I've always used consumer DIMMs.

On the other hand, ECC is half-free from China these days like these Xeons..

I dropped like, $350 on 128GB DDR4 so to be fair, just DDR3 is cheap now. I do have two 1GB ECC sticks sitting here.. not sure if anything could use it.

 

[Keullo-e]

I dropped like, $350 on 128GB DDR4 so to be fair, just DDR3 is cheap now. I do have two 1GB ECC sticks sitting here.. not sure if anything could use it.

On my case, it would be pointless to try with 6x8GB ECCs but I guess on some point - for science... at least I could confirm that it works on the Xeon thread.

 

[Menkveld]

yeah the 4gb dimms should have been supported but with only a 4gb stick in it it stays at c1 error code (memory stuff). Thankfully I had some 2gb dimms from an old server. I know its an old platform but oced its still quite capable for some light gaming. I actually quite recently got this motherboard which allowed me to oc. But i had to drop from 48gb to 12.
Im located in the Netherlands, really appreciate the offer but its not necessary. 12Gb is a bit shallow for me personally but maybe I’ll later upgrade to just a whole brand new platform.

 

[Toothless]

yeah the 4gb dimms should have been supported but with only a 4gb stick in it it stays at c1 error code (memory stuff). Thankfully I had some 2gb dimms from an old server. I know its an old platform but oced its still quite capable for some light gaming. I actually quite recently got this motherboard which allowed me to oc. But i had to drop from 48gb to 12.
Im located in the Netherlands, really appreciate the offer but its not necessary. 12Gb is a bit shallow for me personally but maybe I’ll later upgrade to just a whole brand new platform.

I ask because I have a Dell OEM board with six slots on it. Worked with 24GB and a x5675 until I merged server workloads into one. Shipping would probably cost more than the board itself.