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Real swords in video games; Oakeshott’s Typology

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#1
What I want to talk about is a demand for historically accurate swords in video games.

A lot of video games occur in a medieval-fantasy setting, and with that setting we get swords. Some swords have a practical design, for example the iron & steel swords in Morrowind. Diablo 2 also used historically accurate models for most of the swords.

Other designs are works of fantasy. The Master Sword from the Zelda game series is a beautiful fantasy sword, for instance. Swords in the Dragon Age series are unwieldy and impractical, in my opinion they are offensive in nature (in that they offend me). There should be a push for historically accurate swords, whose balance of mass mimics the Oakeshott Typology. Swords much like the ones sold by Albion would be preferable.

In Oakeshott’s ‘Records of The Medieval Sword’ (ISBN-13: 978-0851155661) we can see that Ewart spent most if his life carefully weighing and measuring many swords. The upper tolerable limit for the weight of a longsword is 4 pounds. The lower limit is 2.75. Hardly controversial, looking at dimensions of swords from private collections and museums reveals that the weights in Ewart’s book are conventional.

It seems then, that American reference for a sword has gone far off the beaten path.

I would like to see the weights of swords in upcoming games like Skyrim revised to match historically accurate blades. The Steel Longsword in Oblivion weighs 24 pounds (I think so, feather symbol?), which is complete tripe. Possibly the reason for this is the mutilation of sword forms through Hollywood and the Video Game Industry over the years. Many people might actually believe that 24 pounds makes sense for a longsword. These notions are horrifying to say the least, but people are entitled to their opinions.

There needs to be a return to the realistic, to the functional.

We can initially outline two of the largest problems with going in this direction. One is that it becomes harder to turn a sword into a artistic piece if it’s dimensions are constrained. The other is that without constraints, the swords mutate over time until they are completely fake in nature.

For an example of what I might want, YMMV, is seeing an Albion Regent or Albion Sempach equivalent in the next medieval-fantasy game. Actually, all of the swords should be modeled after Albion swords; but that is only my personal opinion.

What do you guys think? I really want to know, chances are most people haven’t noticed. But for me, this issue is pervasive; it gives me a nervous tick. I want to start a petition, or at least a formal letter of advisement to some developers.
 
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#2
...
I would like to see the weights of swords in upcoming games like Skyrim revised to match historically accurate blades. The Steel Longsword in Oblivion weighs 24 pounds (I think so, feather symbol?), which is complete tripe. Possibly the reason for this is the mutilation of sword forms through Hollywood and the Video Game Industry over the years. Many people might actually believe that 24 pounds makes sense for a longsword. These notions are horrifying to say the least, but people are entitled to their opinions.

There needs to be a return to the realistic, to the functional.
If this isn't bot spamming, you my dear chap need to find another purpose. Skyrim is a fantasy game, as are most others. If you want a medieval sword sim, go petition the guys that make ARMA.

Leave fantasy alone anorak boy.

I'm only being slightly rude as i think this is a joke post. If it's not a joke, jesus, get a life.

GAMES ARE GAMES!!!
 
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#3
you but in the shoot'em up games lot's of guys go totally anally retarted about ballistics and whatever gun related shit they know from their servicetime. haha
 
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#4
Yeah, they suck too. Whats the point in having completely realistic guns when in real life people don't respawn after having an entire M60 magazine emptied into their chest?
 
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#5
I would like to see the weights of swords in upcoming games like Skyrim revised to match historically accurate blades. The Steel Longsword in Oblivion weighs 24 pounds (I think so, feather symbol?), which is complete tripe. Possibly the reason for this is the mutilation of sword forms through Hollywood and the Video Game Industry over the years. Many people might actually believe that 24 pounds makes sense for a longsword. These notions are horrifying to say the least, but people are entitled to their opinions.
Isn't it in kilograms?
 
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#7
Chances are the guys a forger (taking a look at his avatar), to each his own. Chances are that he knows what he's talking bout! Reminds me of World in Conflict, tanks and heavy artillery were dropped be means of a chute! Now that was funny!
 
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#8
BAHAHA if swords in DA offend you then I wonder what your opinion is on the swords in the Final Fantasy series :roll:

AKA:
 
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#9
Well at the very least katanas are usually depicted accurately. They're a bit lighter than European swords I guess, but I wouldn't really know myself since I've only been able to hold a katana (and wakizashi too, since it was a "daisho") but not a longsword. It's wielded with two hands not because it's heavy but because you can put more force.
 

trickson

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#10
Isn't the word GAME synonymous with fake ? So things are not going to be " Realistic " in nature and the weapons are going to be just as non-realistic . I like games the way they are , If I wanted real I can turn on the News and watch that . Swords can take on some really sweet looks in a game not in real life .
 

1Kurgan1

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#11
Whats with the hate, not everyone likes high fantasy where people wield swords larger than them. I like low fantasy like Conan and such, and wouldn't mind seeing certain games be a bit more realistic when it comes to weaponry, I'm starting to get sick of the anime look for characters and weapons that has become so popular.
 
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#12
If this isn't bot spamming, you my dear chap need to find another purpose. Skyrim is a fantasy game, as are most others. If you want a medieval sword sim, go petition the guys that make ARMA.

Leave fantasy alone anorak boy.

I'm only being slightly rude as i think this is a joke post. If it's not a joke, jesus, get a life.

GAMES ARE GAMES!!!
you but in the shoot'em up games lot's of guys go totally anally retarted about ballistics and whatever gun related shit they know from their servicetime. haha
HAHA yeah, your are right. If I played shooters I would be wicked anal about the guns. But, Asperger's aside, I think I do alright for myself. I REALY like swords, and I am super-anal about them.
 
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#13
Well at the very least katanas are usually depicted accurately. They're a bit lighter than European swords I guess, but I wouldn't really know myself since I've only been able to hold a katana (and wakizashi too, since it was a "daisho") but not a longsword. It's wielded with two hands not because it's heavy but because you can put more force.
Yeah, more of a ceremonial weapon. It was used for combat, don't get me wrong, but the size has gotten thinner and smaller than you would believe. See attached. Usually, katana have a point of balance that is further out than a longsword (ie, worse!). But don't dismay, this actually give more weight to the curve, giving it more authority in the cut. A good point of balance for a longsword is about 4 inches from the guard. This way, the sword doesn't need to be 'pulled' up when held. If it is too close to the guard, the tip has to be pushed down, and that just feels wrong:D
 

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#14
HAHA yeah, your are right. If I played shooters I would be wicked anal about the guns. But, Asperger's aside, I think I do alright for myself. I REALY like swords, and I am super-anal about them.
You're anal with swords?
 

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#15
You're anal with swords?
Don't pretent it's something you're not familiar with.

Anyway, I can actually see his point. Sometimes it's a bit too obvious that the swords the fighters are using would break if you breath on it.

Now, when magic and magic materials are involved it's a whole other story.
 
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#16

1Kurgan1

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#17
And remember here, it doesn't have to be completely realistic, we aren't play games to be real completely, but to have them based on a decent amount of realism helps immersion. Just like Battlefield is based on realism, but med packs just don't work, or defibs like that.
 
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#18
Don't pretent it's something you're not familiar with.

Anyway, I can actually see his point. Sometimes it's a bit too obvious that the swords the fighters are using would break if you breath on it.

Now, when magic and magic materials are involved it's a whole other story.
Well yes. For example, daedric stuff in elder scrolls. That stuff is part of a culture in the game, so is the dwarven and chitin stuff. I don't bother about the neo-gothic design for the daedric weapons in morrowind not being historically accurate. But that doesn't mean that a human can use a 30 foot anime sword.

Some historically accurate weapons are gorgeous works of art, without being funny-shaped. see attached
 

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#20
And remember here, it doesn't have to be completely realistic, we aren't play games to be real completely, but to have them based on a decent amount of realism helps immersion. Just like Battlefield is based on realism, but med packs just don't work, or defibs like that.
exactly, it's a relative thing. you agree to be immersed at the start, but the game has to
not drop to ball to keep that happening...
 
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#21
A good example is the photo of the guard shield I posted. That is typically for the night watch. The shield holds the lantern, and the port can be closed to hide the light, giving the guard a advantage at night. The holes in the shield work with the fluting and ribs to skid the blades in the holes, catching the blade.

Guards in skyrim should have these, in my opinion. here is more:
 

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#22
Swords in fantasy games are exactly that, fantasy. Likely the developers of the games didn't put much thought into the weight of the swords or they're an artificial block to prevent a character from wielding a more powerful blade too early (IE strength modifier).

Real swords have a purpose as a military weapon, so the need to be light and balanced for real world use.
 

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#23
Swords in fantasy games are exactly that, fantasy. Likely the developers of the games didn't put much thought into the weight of the swords or they're an artificial block to prevent a character from wielding a more powerful blade too early (IE strength modifier).

Real swords have a purpose as a military weapon, so the need to be light and balanced for real world use.
Theres different types of fantasy though, there are low fantasy games, and some of them use absurd weapons.
 

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#24
lmao! i for one am going to immediately write my representative!
 

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#25
What I want to talk about is a demand for historically accurate swords in video games.

A lot of video games occur in a medieval-fantasy setting, and with that setting we get swords. Some swords have a practical design, for example the iron & steel swords in Morrowind. Diablo 2 also used historically accurate models for most of the swords.

Other designs are works of fantasy. The Master Sword from the Zelda game series is a beautiful fantasy sword, for instance. Swords in the Dragon Age series are unwieldy and impractical, in my opinion they are offensive in nature (in that they offend me). There should be a push for historically accurate swords, whose balance of mass mimics the Oakeshott Typology. Swords much like the ones sold by Albion would be preferable.

In Oakeshott’s ‘Records of The Medieval Sword’ (ISBN-13: 978-0851155661) we can see that Ewart spent most if his life carefully weighing and measuring many swords. The upper tolerable limit for the weight of a longsword is 4 pounds. The lower limit is 2.75. Hardly controversial, looking at dimensions of swords from private collections and museums reveals that the weights in Ewart’s book are conventional.

It seems then, that American reference for a sword has gone far off the beaten path.

I would like to see the weights of swords in upcoming games like Skyrim revised to match historically accurate blades. The Steel Longsword in Oblivion weighs 24 pounds (I think so, feather symbol?), which is complete tripe. Possibly the reason for this is the mutilation of sword forms through Hollywood and the Video Game Industry over the years. Many people might actually believe that 24 pounds makes sense for a longsword. These notions are horrifying to say the least, but people are entitled to their opinions.

There needs to be a return to the realistic, to the functional.

We can initially outline two of the largest problems with going in this direction. One is that it becomes harder to turn a sword into a artistic piece if it’s dimensions are constrained. The other is that without constraints, the swords mutate over time until they are completely fake in nature.

For an example of what I might want, YMMV, is seeing an Albion Regent or Albion Sempach equivalent in the next medieval-fantasy game. Actually, all of the swords should be modeled after Albion swords; but that is only my personal opinion.

What do you guys think? I really want to know, chances are most people haven’t noticed. But for me, this issue is pervasive; it gives me a nervous tick. I want to start a petition, or at least a formal letter of advisement to some developers.
I for one agree that games should always be 100% accurate at all times. It offends me greatly whenever a game is not totally realistic down to the most minute detail. I think while we are at it we should make it so that right when you die the game is over and you can never play it again, ever. You get shot once, game over man, move on to the next game because you're done.:wtf: