• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

RealTemp General Discussion

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#51
Here's some testing I did using the new Intel approved TjMax=100C for my E8400. I also did this same test with a Q6600 - G0 with TjMax set to 100C and got the same results.

I played around with it for half an hour and even took it a little beyond TjMax just to make sure that it was thoroughly warmed up. :)



I tried testing at different temperatures and moved the IR gun around and around but the hottest it would ever show was 5C less than the reported temperature of the hottest core.. This is the gradient that Intel says exists between IHS and the core even when the CPU is 99% idle. The above pic was taken 2 seconds after this one.



Once I put it back together I tried doing the RealTemp calibration test. The room temperature near the open computer was 21C and it was running at 1600 MHz and 1.08 volts. With these settings, at idle, an expected core temperature should be about 5C above the room temperature which would be 26C. This is what I get:



When using the correct TjMax, and no additional calibration, my core temperatures are being reported about 8C too high. This is a perfect example of "slope error." JohnZS has one core that reads too high and one core that reads too low so a combined error, when uncorrected, of 15C on his Quad is hardly surprising.

Intel finally releasing the correct TjMax for 45nm hasn't given the enthusiast community as much information as they thought they were going to get at IDF.

Here's a quote from the press release that was posted at Anandtech:

"Armed with this information, seasoned application developers and amateur coders alike will finally have everything they need to implement the most accurate, real-time core temperature display tool possible."

Well, not quite. :laugh:
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
4,435 (1.24/day)
Likes
733
Location
where everyone wants to be
System Name Everchanging
Processor Core i7 4790K
Motherboard ASUS ROG Maximus VII Hero
Cooling Custom loop
Memory 4x4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2800MHz 11-14-14-35
Video Card(s) 2xEVGA GTX 970 SSC
Storage SSD Main, 7TB backups
Display(s) Samsung 40" 4k UHD
Case Corsair 900D
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster thingy
Power Supply Enermax Revolution 85+ 1050w
Mouse Steel Series Sensi
Keyboard Thermaltake eSports Posiden Z Cherry Blues
Software Windows 10 x64
#52
Did Intel release the TjMax for the new E0 E8400 and E8500's when they released all the other 45nm chips or are they the same as the other revisions/steppings?
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
4,435 (1.24/day)
Likes
733
Location
where everyone wants to be
System Name Everchanging
Processor Core i7 4790K
Motherboard ASUS ROG Maximus VII Hero
Cooling Custom loop
Memory 4x4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 2800MHz 11-14-14-35
Video Card(s) 2xEVGA GTX 970 SSC
Storage SSD Main, 7TB backups
Display(s) Samsung 40" 4k UHD
Case Corsair 900D
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster thingy
Power Supply Enermax Revolution 85+ 1050w
Mouse Steel Series Sensi
Keyboard Thermaltake eSports Posiden Z Cherry Blues
Software Windows 10 x64
#54
That link doesn't work or doesn't like me.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#56
Uncle, I have a suggestion, but before a small intro.
I have an E8400 cooled by a Ninja rev.B fanless+AS5+ TR Bolt-Thru on a P5Q-E in a P182.



Those are my idle temperatures at 26°C room temperature.



I hardly believe that an E8400 at 1560 MHz and 0.944V Vcore have 43°C at idle with 26°C room temperatures.
Then my full-load temperatures with a small OC at Vcore default.



Three different temperatures (RealTemp calibrated, RealTemp/CoreTemp default and SpeedFan with old TJmax) but one thing is the same in all programs: distance to TJMax (it's obvious because all programs reads same value from MSR 0x19C).

So here it cames my suggestion: to get rid off this chaos with calibrating idle temperatures and different TJMax for 65nm or 45nm CPU's (I know that Intel told us at last TJMax for 45nm CPU's but it is still debatable as uncle show us) we can use distance to TJMax as absolute and correct temperature in full-load. OK we'll still have strange temperatures in idle but all that's matter is accurate temperatures in full-load to see how close we are from throttle point.
We can define some ranges (just an example)
- distance to TJMax >55°C. Cold CPU
- distance to TJMax between 25°C and 55°C. Warm CPU
- distance to TJMax between 10°C and 25°C. Hot CPU.
- distance to TJMax <10°C Very hot CPU, approaching to throttle point

All I want is that for those who want to calibrate RealTemp for idle and mess with TJMax leave the program as it is, but for those who want to see if they approaching to throttle point make an option in Settings to show in system tray distance to TJMax and to make it more intuitive color coded it. Something like this:
- green. Cold CPU
- yellow. Warm CPU
- red. Hot CPU
- blinking red/magenta. Very hot CPU.

In this way all became simple. Regardless of your CPU (Quad, dual-core, 65nm, 45nm), your room ambient, your load, your TJMax, if you see bigger numbers you're OK with a cold CPU, if you see small numbers you're in load but still OK and if you see very small numbers you're close to trouble. :)

Good or bad idea?
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
5,230 (1.48/day)
Likes
661
Location
IRAQ-Baghdad
System Name MASTER
Processor Core i7 3930k run at 4.4ghz
Motherboard Asus Rampage IV extreme
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 4x4G kingston hyperx beast 2400mhz
Video Card(s) 2X EVGA GTX680
Storage 2X Crusial M4 256g raid0, 1TbWD g, 2x500 WD B
Display(s) Samsung 27' 1080P LED 3D monitior 2ms
Case CoolerMaster Chosmos II
Audio Device(s) Creative sound blaster X-FI Titanum champion,Creative speakers 7.1 T7900
Power Supply Corsair 1200i, Logitch G500 Mouse, headset Corsair vengeance 1500
Software Win7 64bit Ultimate
Benchmark Scores 3d mark 2011: testing
#57
anything like real temp for amd
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#58
Use CoreTemp. You don't need idle calibration and TJMax madness for AMD. :)
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#59
burebista: With the latest official TjMax release and Intel admitting that the 45nm sensors have some significant slope error issues, being able to see the DTS reading in the system tray is a good idea. I'll throw that on the immediate things to do list and work on colors for it later.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#60

mtosev

New Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
1,462 (0.31/day)
Likes
144
Location
Maribor, Slovenia
Processor Core i7 930
Motherboard Asus P6X58D Premium
Memory 6gb SuperTalent WB200UX6G8
Video Card(s) xfx radeon hd 5970 black edition
Storage Intel X25-M 80
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp 2209wa
Case Haf 932
Audio Device(s) Integreted sound card
Software w7
#61
great app. tnx
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
199 (0.06/day)
Likes
8
Location
New zealand
System Name Home built or is that bank built :P
Processor I7 4960X
Motherboard rampage IV Black edition
Cooling stock standard with one xtra 120mm server case fan cooler master GTS V8
Memory 32gig ddr3 1866
Video Card(s) GTX 780TI
Storage 1Tb sata
Display(s) acer 42" lcd tv running thru hdmi monster cable
Case coolmaster csx falcon CX-632 ATX full tower case.
Audio Device(s) onboard sound
Power Supply Enermax Galaxy 1000W
Software Windows 7 64bit
#62
amd dual core fx 64 is not supported why is this?
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#63
Because this? :)
RealTemp is a utility to monitor core temperatures on all Intel Core based processors.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
199 (0.06/day)
Likes
8
Location
New zealand
System Name Home built or is that bank built :P
Processor I7 4960X
Motherboard rampage IV Black edition
Cooling stock standard with one xtra 120mm server case fan cooler master GTS V8
Memory 32gig ddr3 1866
Video Card(s) GTX 780TI
Storage 1Tb sata
Display(s) acer 42" lcd tv running thru hdmi monster cable
Case coolmaster csx falcon CX-632 ATX full tower case.
Audio Device(s) onboard sound
Power Supply Enermax Galaxy 1000W
Software Windows 7 64bit
#64
Nuts!!!
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#65
amd dual core fx 64 is not supported why is this?
I haven't owned a platform with an AMD CPU since my E6400 arrived and immediately overclocked to 3200 MHz. At the moment, I don't have any easy way to test and develop for AMD.

The AMD sensors don't have the same issues that the Intel 45nm sensors do so a program like Core Temp should be able to give you accurate temperatures for your AMD CPU. I decided to concentrate on the Intel Core CPUs and there have only been 2 or 3 requests in the last 6 months to support AMD.
 

Kursah

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
10,952 (2.68/day)
Likes
5,063
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
System Name Kursah's Gaming Rig - Haswell Edition | Spartan Home Server 2015
Processor i7 4790k 4.0/4.8 @ 1.26v | i7 4790k 4.0/4.4 @ 1.18v - Both delidded w/CLU
Motherboard Asus Z87-Pro - BIOS 2103 | Asus Z87-Pro - BIOS 2103
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S Push-Pull | Cooler Master 212 EVO Stock - Using NT-H1 and AC MX-4
Memory 16GB (2x8) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2400 CL11 | 32GB (4x8) G.Skill DDR3-1600 CL9
Video Card(s) MSI GTX980 Ti Gaming 6G LE @ Stock | Onboard Intel HD 4600
Storage 850EVO 250GB SSD, 960GB SSD, 1x2TB | 840 120GB SSD, RAID10 6x2TB (6TB) + 8TB Backup
Display(s) Samsung 32" TV IPS 1080p, Dell 23" U2312HM IPS 1080p | 19" 4:3 Dell LCD..mostly RDP.
Case Corsair 600C - Stock Fans on Low | Lian Li Lancool PC-K7 - Cougar fans
Audio Device(s) Aune T1 mk1 > AKG K553 Pro + HiFiMAN HE-350 (Equalizer APO + PeaceUI) | Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply EVGA 750G2 Modular + APC 1500VA UPS | EVGA KR500 80+ Bronze + CyberPowerPC 1000VA UPS
Mouse Logitech G502 | Dell USB Laser Mouse
Keyboard Logitech G15 rv2 | Dell USB Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 | Windows Server 2012 R2 (GUI Core,Hyper-V + VMs)
#66
One thing that would be nice would be actual CPU voltage reading that some other programs use also...dunno if it'd be a pain to add or not, but some people are mistaking VID reading for actual voltage settings when overclocking. I've seen that happen a few times..I'd personally like to see that as one little extra to an already excellent utility.

:toast:
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
8,506 (2.34/day)
Likes
2,072
Location
Kansas City
System Name The Dove Box Rev 2.0
Processor I7 5930k
Motherboard Asus X99
Cooling Custom water loop
Memory 4 x 4GB 3000 MHz DDR4
Video Card(s) 2x MSI 780 Ti's in SLI
Storage 500GB Samsung 850 PCIe SSD, 2x1TB WD Blacks, 1.2TB NAS
Display(s) 27" Asus 144Hz
Case Enermax Fulmo GT
Audio Device(s) ON BOARD FTW
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 850W
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Win 10 64x
#67
One thing that would be nice would be actual CPU voltage reading that some other programs use also...dunno if it'd be a pain to add or not, but some people are mistaking VID reading for actual voltage settings when overclocking. I've seen that happen a few times..I'd personally like to see that as one little extra to an already excellent utility.

:toast:
I'm one of many who made the mistake, thanks Kursah.

//subscribed//
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#68
CPU-z is probably the most well known utility and does an excellent job on most motherboards at reporting CPU voltage so adding that feature to RealTemp probably won't happen in the near future. In any screen shot, CPU-z is the first thing you usually see.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#69
Official TJMax for 65 and 45 nm CPU's from IDF Taiwan. In attachment.
 

Attachments

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#70
Thanks burebista for posting that. Now we don't have to worry about that document disappearing from the Intel website like after the last IDF.

I've read over the document and noticed that they talk about a value called Target Tj. Users that decide to use Target Tj as TjMax will find that their reported core temperatures might end up a long ways away from reality, especially for processors like my E6400 B2 which has a Target Tj = 70C according to Intel.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
802 (0.18/day)
Likes
462
Location
Romania
Processor i5-2500K
Motherboard ASRock P67 Extreme4
Cooling Ninja 3 fanless
Memory Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 XMS3 rev. A
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING X 6GB
Storage Intel 535 Series 120GB + WD 6400AAKS
Display(s) Benq EW2420
Case Antec P182
Audio Device(s) Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Signature 650
Software Win 10
#71
Now we don't have to worry about that document disappearing from the Intel website like after the last IDF.
Yep, that's was my idea. :D
Anyway, now I don't understand nothing from TJMax or that brand new Target Tj. :banghead:
So my advice come together with yours:
unclewebb said:
It's just a number and for most people that are unable to calibrate due to sticking sensors or simply don't bother, it's not even a very accurate number. Overclock as high as you want and let stability be your guide.
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#72
Good advice burebista.

Here's how my E6400 looks when using this new Target Tj value as TjMax:



The room temperature was about 11C. Using this new Target Tj, my reported core temperature would be down at minus 6C which is a long ways from reality on an air cooled processor.
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,141 (0.33/day)
Likes
676
#73
RealTemp 2.84

I just finished a new Sensor Test feature in RealTemp.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/RealTempBeta.zip

It didn't take long for a user to post a screen shot of what happens when a sensor is sticking.



It's obvious that as his CPU cools, core0 gets down to a Distance to TJMax of 55 and that's it. It's stuck at that point and can't go any lower. When the temperature of the CPU is higher than that, it works perfectly fine.

I added a lot of extra code to try to make setting up this test as simple as possible but for best results it will still help if you follow a few directions.

The CPU Cool Down Test uses Prime95 - Small FFTs to create a consistent amount of heat. If you don't already have it installed then click on the Download Prime95 button and it will take you to the website where you can download either a 32 or 64 bit version. Scroll down to Step3 when the Mersenne - Prime95 web page pops up for a download link.

If you have a Dual Core then you could also use Orthos Small FFTs instead. Prime95 has recently been updated to version 25.7 build 3 so I'm recommending that.

You need to let RealTemp start up Prime95. This will give RealTemp full control of Prime95 so it can shut Prime95 down automatically when it reaches the 0.0% level of this test. The CPU Cool Down Test won't start if you already have Prime95 running. You will need to shut it down first before starting this test.

Before clicking on the Sensor Test button, make sure your computer is as idle as possible for best results. Give Vista some time to calm down before starting a test. The first thing it will do is run the previous sensor movement test to give you a quick idea of how your sensors are doing.

To begin the more thorough CPU Cool Down Test click on the Start button and navigate to the directory where you have prime95.exe installed.

When Prime95 starts up, select the Small FFTs option at the top and click on OK to begin the heat up phase. There is plenty of feedback in the info window so you don't have to remember too much of this.

That's about all there is to it to get this test started. Go for a coffee or kick back for about 10 minutes and RealTemp will do the rest. You can Stop or cancel this test at any time if you get bored.

What you're looking for are sensors that show movement at each stage of this test. If there isn't movement then you might have a sticking sensor or two. If both sensors are moving but moving at different rates then that would show "slope error" that Intel has warned us about.

Do some testing and post some screen shots so I can learn some more about these sensors. The new Core i7 sensors seem to perform similar to the previous 65nm Core 2 Duo sensors. They continue to show signs of slope error.
 
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
1,738 (0.50/day)
Likes
4,318
Location
Oklahoma City
System Name My Classified System
Processor Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge
Motherboard ASUS P8Z77-V
Cooling Koolance CPU-380I, XSPC RX360, XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir with Single Laing DDC
Memory G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2133
Video Card(s) EVGA 04G-P4-3988-KR GeForce GTX 980 Classified with EK-FC980 GTX Classy Waterblock
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAKS 320GB
Display(s) Acer S220HQLAbd Black 21.5" 5ms LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor
Case NZXT SWITCH 810 Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard HD Audio
Power Supply Thermaltake - 850-Watt TR2 RX Power Supply
Mouse Black Microsoft Wheel Optical USB Mouse
Keyboard Black Microsoft USB Keyboard 2000
Software Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64 Bit
#74
Here's what I got with my E6750.

RealTemp Test.jpg

I have a Asus P6T Deluxe on a FedEx truck that should be delivered by the end of the week. I have an Intel Core i7 920 and a Thermalright LGA1366 Bolt-Thru-Kit on order but I haven't been able to find the memory that I want to buy. Until I do that makes them very expensive paper weights. When I get this system up and running I'll run the sensor test on them.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
3,684 (1.00/day)
Likes
402
Location
Smithfield, WV
System Name Felix777
Processor Core i5-3570k@stock
Motherboard Biostar H61
Memory 8gb
Video Card(s) XFX RX 470
Storage WD 500GB BLK
Display(s) Acer p236h bd
Case Haf 912
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Rosewill CAPSTONE 450watt
Software Win 10 x64
#75