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As far as I can see these tariffs won't benefit you, and it won't hurt China either since only the buyer gets stung.. I'm glad you're so happy about paying more, just because your leader wants a 'trade war'. Thing is until you guys can mass produce electronics, you HAVE to buy parts from China. Putting a tariff in place when you don't have an in-house alternative is just ridiculous imo.
i agree a trade war is never great, but, no nation could ever hope to win a trade war with the USA. And , although tariffs have the ability to cause price hikes, its also a way to spur competition between retailers/manufacturers. i wouldnt be surprised to see manufacturers start cutting their profit, instead of hiking their retail prices, for the privledge to compete in the Largest market in the world (making $90/unit profit, instead of $100/unit profit), for fear of another manufacturer doing it and cutting out the ones who wont. Tarriffs have hurt the USA in the past, so the precedent is there for bad things, but i refuse to make assumptions based on what HAS happened, & instead i look forward with hope for good outcomes, with a realization of the possibility of bad outcomes. in short, we'll see.
 

Frick

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I didn't call anyone a communist I just set it out right.
Just own up to the insult. No one will get it anyway as they're communist zombies!

i but i refuse to make assumptions based on what HAS happened, & instead i look forward with hope for good outcomes, with a realization of the possibility of bad outcomes. in short, we'll see.
What's the definition of insanity again? :p
(that was seriously a joke and actually not a political statement)
 
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Since I overclock anything I can, almost every PC which I've had has been built by me. I can choose a case which suits for my needs, I can get cables run nicely, I can get a good quality PSU..
Can't speak to Finland ... but here in US... Cyberpower is one of those that will build just about anything, many even overclock

1. You can buy PCs overclocked
2. You can choose your Case and PSU
3. You can chose every single one of your components ... even on a lappie after starting with one of several Chassis / Screen Combos
4. You can choose your case.
5. You can even choose the cables.
6. You can have them installed w/ combs and routed.

Some of those are gonna cost ya where extra labor is involved (1 and 6) but the others usually come at no additional cost other than parts prices. I can see over in your neck of the woods, smaller population and significantly higher prices, there might not be room for this business model to succeed.

https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower-Z370-i7-Configurator

While a few have been trying to make this a political discussion in and of itself, despite the narrowness of the original post .... the question remains ...

Assuming we are going to have a tariff, and forgetting the sensibility of that question, the scope here is limited ... If you are going to put a tariff on PC related items ... Why put it on parts instead of pre-builts .. or tariff on both ? That's it.

1. Most parts aren't even made outside of China and those that are, at least partially, are not made in the USA. If you have an economic justification for this, let's hear it. How does this do anything more than cost consumers more money ? Will 30% surcharge on parts shift jobs to the US ? Are we really expecting fabs to be built, commissioned, workers trained here in the US in this decade ? Where do trained employees come from (Immigrants via Class 1B Visas ?) What's the impact on US businesses like Cyberpower ? What's the impact of the 10's of thousands of PC related service companies and mom / pop stores ? Will not this just leave a lot of US workers unemployed ?

2. OTOH, what does putting a tariff on pre-builts do..... it provides an opportunity for even more obscene profits. Alienware was mentioned where upgrading from 8 to 16GB can cost you $275. The lemmings that walk into BestBuy see a recognized name like Dell and scoop them up having no idea as to what they are buying won't notice. But if that $2200 Alienware equivalent to that $1800 Cyberpower build is obscene, Alienware can now add $450 to the price because their US based competition is paying $480 more for their parts. Put tariff on the pre-builts and there's an actual incentive for companies to move the labor / assembly here.

It's not about whether tariffs are a good idea; it's not a political "should they exist or not exist" discussion ... there's enough political propaganda in members avatars and sigs. I don't see the value in responses consisting of nothing but name calling w/o even addressing the topic. We have to deal with ridiculous statements every day from both sides of the aisle in the press ... this week's best example "By that do you mean sped up? Well that's not altered. That's sped up. They do it all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown."

It's simply about, if it's a given that there's gonna be a tariff to improve American jobs situation putting it on parts instead of pre-builts has the opposite effect. It's gonna do the opposite of what they are saying it's gonna do ... just like the above ... they don't speed up the film to see if it 's a first down, they do the opposite; they slow it down to see of the knee hit ground before the ball passed the line. Again, I'm making no comment about the event which was being referred to so I hope folks can refrain from bringing in non-relevant propaganda regarding the event on either side. What happened in that room is irrelevant. The only relevance of that statement in this context i .... They do it [speed up the film] all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown." .... is what was said and that is the direct opposite of what actually takes place with sports films. Same here... a tariff on parts will not create jobs it will eliminate them. No tariff on prebuilts will also eliminate jobs as it destroys any incentive to assemble here.

I dare say when this hits the mainstream press, elected leaders will have a hard time defending this duality. Not saying I agree with it but I can see and argument for a "tariff on pre-builts", I can see a "tariff on both parts and prebuilts" ... a tariff on parts only makes as much sense as speeding up a film helps you see better. Somebody goofed with the statement and someone goofed w/ the parts only idea.
 
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It sucks how politics have effect on normal people's purchases.
 

rtwjunkie

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Can't speak to Finland ... but here in US... Cyberpower is one of those that will build just about anything, many even overclock

1. You can buy PCs overclocked
2. You can choose your Case and PSU
3. You can chose every single one of your components ... even on a lappie after starting with one of several Chassis / Screen Combos
4. You can choose your case.
5. You can even choose the cables.
6. You can have them installed w/ combs and routed.

Some of those are gonna cost ya where extra labor is involved (1 and 6) but the others usually come at no additional cost other than parts prices. I can see over in your neck of the woods, smaller population and significantly higher prices, there might not be room for this business model to succeed.

https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower-Z370-i7-Configurator

While a few have been trying to make this a political discussion in and of itself, despite the narrowness of the original post .... the question remains ...

Assuming we are going to have a tariff, and forgetting the sensibility of that question, the scope here is limited ... If you are going to put a tariff on PC related items ... Why put it on parts instead of pre-builts .. or tariff on both ? That's it.

1. Most parts aren't even made outside of China and those that are, at least partially, are not made in the USA. If you have an economic justification for this, let's hear it. How does this do anything more than cost consumers more money ? Will 30% surcharge on parts shift jobs to the US ? Are we really expecting fabs to be built, commissioned, workers trained here in the US in this decade ? Where do trained employees come from (Immigrants via Class 1B Visas ?) What's the impact on US businesses like Cyberpower ? What's the impact of the 10's of thousands of PC related service companies and mom / pop stores ? Will not this just leave a lot of US workers unemployed ?

2. OTOH, what does putting a tariff on pre-builts do..... it provides an opportunity for even more obscene profits. Alienware was mentioned where upgrading from 8 to 16GB can cost you $275. The lemmings that walk into BestBuy see a recognized name like Dell and scoop them up having no idea as to what they are buying won't notice. But if that $2200 Alienware equivalent to that $1800 Cyberpower build is obscene, Alienware can now add $450 to the price because their US based competition is paying $480 more for their parts. Put tariff on the pre-builts and there's an actual incentive for companies to move the labor / assembly here.

It's not about whether tariffs are a good idea; it's not a political "should they exist or not exist" discussion ... there's enough political propaganda in members avatars and sigs. I don't see the value in responses consisting of nothing but name calling w/o even addressing the topic. We have to deal with ridiculous statements every day from both sides of the aisle in the press ... this week's best example "By that do you mean sped up? Well that's not altered. That's sped up. They do it all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown."

It's simply about, if it's a given that there's gonna be a tariff to improve American jobs situation putting it on parts instead of pre-builts has the opposite effect. It's gonna do the opposite of what they are saying it's gonna do ... just like the above ... they don't speed up the film to see if it 's a first down, they do the opposite; they slow it down to see of the knee hit ground before the ball passed the line. Again, I'm making no comment about the event which was being referred to so I hope folks can refrain from bringing in non-relevant propaganda regarding the event on either side. The only relevance of that statement here .... They do it [speed up the film] all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown." .... is only that what was said is the direct opposite of what takes place with sports films. Same here... a tariff on parts will not create jobs it will eliminate them. No tariff on prebuilts will also eliminate jobs as it destroys any incentive to assemble here.

I dare say when this hits the mainstream press, elected leaders will have a hard time defending this duality. Not saying I agree with it, I can see and argument for a "tariff on pre-builts", I can see a "tariff on both" ... a tariff on parts only makes sense only in they way that speeding up a film helps you see better. Somebody goofed.
In summary you got a lot of the points correct, and even tried to make it just a discussion on the results. Bravo

However, your premise for a tarrif is wrong. It is not about getting jobs back. Tarrifs are about access. China has been very limiting about what the U.S. can import to China. Costs are astronomical to export to China. They mostly only allow U.S. products to be sold if they are produced there.

But they have always insisted the U.S. allow their products to be exported to the U.S. past U.S. governments run by both parties have always been more than happy to just bend over and get their ass kicked, and let it continue and continue, until the trade imbalance was completely bonkers.

The tarrif is a punitive measure that should eventually cause China to relent on their unfair actions, allowing more imports. Once they realize they can’t bully the U.S., because A) they need the huge market, and B) they need to feed their people, then tarrifs can be removed and everyone is happy.

To have continued to allow the Chinese to have whatever they want in trade “agreements” would have amounted to economic suicide eventually.
 
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In summary you got a lot of the points correct, and even tried to make it just a discussion on the results. Bravo

However, your premise for a tarrif is wrong. It is not about getting jobs back. Tarrifs are about access. China has been very limiting about what the U.S. can import to China. Costs are astronomical to export to China. They mostly only allow U.S. products to be sold if they are produced there.

But they have always insisted the U.S. allow their products to be exported to the U.S. past U.S. governments run by both parties have always been more than happy to just bend over and get their ass kicked, and let it continue and continue, until the trade imbalance was completely bonkers.

The tarrif is a punitive measure that should eventually cause China to relent on their unfair actions, allowing more imports. Once they realize they can’t bully the U.S., because A) they need the huge market, and B) they need to feed their people, then tarrifs can be removed and everyone is happy.

To have continued to allow the Chinese to have whatever they want in trade “agreements” would have amounted to economic suicide eventually.
could well be its a bit late.. it was said years ago that power is moving from the west to the east.. we have benefited with all the cheap stuff from china they work harder than we do and they work cheaper..

economic warfare will lead to bad things for every bugger concerned.. the future aint looking very bright.. he he

trog
 

rtwjunkie

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could well be its a bit late.. it was said years ago that power is moving from the west to the east.. we have benefited with all the cheap stuff from china they work harder than we do and they work cheaper..

economic warfare will lead to bad things for every bugger concerned.. the future aint looking very bright.. he he

trog
I’m not getting pulled into a pro or con. I merely identified what the tarrifs are about and why it got to that point.
 
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if thats how you define insanity.
It was Einstiens definition, if I can attribute correctly. But I give up. Lock this thread. We've completely lost sight of the non-political issues at stake here.
 

eidairaman1

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Can't speak to Finland ... but here in US... Cyberpower is one of those that will build just about anything, many even overclock

1. You can buy PCs overclocked
2. You can choose your Case and PSU
3. You can chose every single one of your components ... even on a lappie after starting with one of several Chassis / Screen Combos
4. You can choose your case.
5. You can even choose the cables.
6. You can have them installed w/ combs and routed.

Some of those are gonna cost ya where extra labor is involved (1 and 6) but the others usually come at no additional cost other than parts prices. I can see over in your neck of the woods, smaller population and significantly higher prices, there might not be room for this business model to succeed.

https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower-Z370-i7-Configurator

While a few have been trying to make this a political discussion in and of itself, despite the narrowness of the original post .... the question remains ...

Assuming we are going to have a tariff, and forgetting the sensibility of that question, the scope here is limited ... If you are going to put a tariff on PC related items ... Why put it on parts instead of pre-builts .. or tariff on both ? That's it.

1. Most parts aren't even made outside of China and those that are, at least partially, are not made in the USA. If you have an economic justification for this, let's hear it. How does this do anything more than cost consumers more money ? Will 30% surcharge on parts shift jobs to the US ? Are we really expecting fabs to be built, commissioned, workers trained here in the US in this decade ? Where do trained employees come from (Immigrants via Class 1B Visas ?) What's the impact on US businesses like Cyberpower ? What's the impact of the 10's of thousands of PC related service companies and mom / pop stores ? Will not this just leave a lot of US workers unemployed ?

2. OTOH, what does putting a tariff on pre-builts do..... it provides an opportunity for even more obscene profits. Alienware was mentioned where upgrading from 8 to 16GB can cost you $275. The lemmings that walk into BestBuy see a recognized name like Dell and scoop them up having no idea as to what they are buying won't notice. But if that $2200 Alienware equivalent to that $1800 Cyberpower build is obscene, Alienware can now add $450 to the price because their US based competition is paying $480 more for their parts. Put tariff on the pre-builts and there's an actual incentive for companies to move the labor / assembly here.

It's not about whether tariffs are a good idea; it's not a political "should they exist or not exist" discussion ... there's enough political propaganda in members avatars and sigs. I don't see the value in responses consisting of nothing but name calling w/o even addressing the topic. We have to deal with ridiculous statements every day from both sides of the aisle in the press ... this week's best example "By that do you mean sped up? Well that's not altered. That's sped up. They do it all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown."

It's simply about, if it's a given that there's gonna be a tariff to improve American jobs situation putting it on parts instead of pre-builts has the opposite effect. It's gonna do the opposite of what they are saying it's gonna do ... just like the above ... they don't speed up the film to see if it 's a first down, they do the opposite; they slow it down to see of the knee hit ground before the ball passed the line. Again, I'm making no comment about the event which was being referred to so I hope folks can refrain from bringing in non-relevant propaganda regarding the event on either side. What happened in that room is irrelevant. The only relevance of that statement in this context i .... They do it [speed up the film] all the time in sports to see if there's actually a first down or a touchdown." .... is what was said and that is the direct opposite of what actually takes place with sports films. Same here... a tariff on parts will not create jobs it will eliminate them. No tariff on prebuilts will also eliminate jobs as it destroys any incentive to assemble here.

I dare say when this hits the mainstream press, elected leaders will have a hard time defending this duality. Not saying I agree with it but I can see and argument for a "tariff on pre-builts", I can see a "tariff on both parts and prebuilts" ... a tariff on parts only makes as much sense as speeding up a film helps you see better. Somebody goofed with the statement and someone goofed w/ the parts only idea.
You do realize no one is going to read a wall of text like that
 
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If you want to call it a rant, be my guest if ya makes ya feel better. But if you want to be accurate and stay within the stated focus of the post, it's solely about the reverse logic as it relates to the application of tariffs on this industry and this community. While the tariff stategy as a whole is questionable, that has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about "why tariifs are being applied to PC parts and not entire PC's ?"

1. What effect will a tariff on parts have ? Logically a tariff is supposed to have the effect of encouraging the consumer to by an alternative made product. How does that tariiff do that ? Please go to PCpartpicker and make us a list off 100% made in USA products so we can all do the right thing.

2. How does making entire PCs exempt from a tariiff serve to promote "Buy American" ? If anything, it's going to promote buying ONLY from companies that do NOT make anything here.

The tariff as applied here does the exact opposite of what tariffs are intended to do.

1. It's not creating American jobs, it's eliminating them
2. It's taking purchasing power out of the hands of consumers resulting in them buying less.
Just calling a spade a spade. I get no satisfaction out of this one way or the other.
You're now bringing up American made components, buying American, creating American jobs and the purchasing power of American consumers. If that isn't the topic of a political discussion, I don't know what is. What effect will the tarrif have? That's very clear. A temporary increase in prices. But the industry is already looking to adapt and adjust to this, as evident in this recent Digitimes article.
 

FordGT90Concept

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Assuming we are going to have a tariff, and forgetting the sensibility of that question, the scope here is limited ... If you are going to put a tariff on PC related items ... Why put it on parts instead of pre-builts .. or tariff on both ? That's it.
Because tariffs are scheduled. Electronic components are scheduled, consumer electronics are not. Tarriffed or not, respectively, but as I said, the latter is liable to change. The tariffs started off narrow in scope (steel and aluminum, then industrial equipment, then components) and Trump has threatened to expand the tariffs to include just about everything China exports to the USA if they aren't getting close to an agreement by the end of the year.

The tariffs are having their intended affect. China's manufacturing sector barely grew in the last quarter (down to 0.2% on October).

Production spiked in 2017 and early 2018 because of preparation for the tariffs. The peak is likely not to be as high by the end of this year and much lower next year:
 
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Audio Device(s) VGA HDMI->Panasonic SC-HTB20 Soundbar/Schiit Modi MB/Asgard 2 DAC/Amp to AKG Pro K7712 Headphones
Power Supply SeaSonic Prime 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Transluscent Keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux 64-bit
You do realize no one is going to read a wall of text like that
*sighs*

I remember when people actually appreciated thought out posts. I do, still. And hate to break your theory but his post is more on topic than 90% of them here and thus got a read from me.

Yes, there are politics in it. But I mean, that ship sailed long ago...
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
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Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
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Case Some old Antec
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Power Supply Fractal Design Effekt 400W
Mouse Logitech G602
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Benchmark Scores I once had +100 dorfs in DF, so yeah pretty great

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
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Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 5500 XT Pulse 8 GiB
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate Exos X12 TB 7200 RPM
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It should be added that tariffs are taxes levied and collected by Uncle Sam. Taxes can be refunded or invested. Case in point: Trump responded to China's asinine import tariffs on soybeans with increased subsidies to farmers that were hugely impacted by their retaliatory tariffs. In other words, your purchase of tariffed computer components is going towards making sure we don't lose skilled laborers that keep our bellies full. Tariffs are fantastic compared to estate, property, and death taxes. Not for free trade, of course, but China earned this by leeching off of the USA for decades. Free trade must be a two way street or it is not mutually beneficial; it's parasitic.
 
Last edited:
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Video Card(s) 1. MSI 1060 Gaming X Plus(6GB). 2. MSI 1050TI Gaming X (4GB)
Storage 1. 32GB Optane+120 GB SSD, 4TB X300, Firecuda 2TB. 2. Kingston 240GB SSD, 2TB WD Blue
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I would never go for a pre-built PC for one reason. I always (Since my Pentium 4) mismatch GFX card and CPU at first, and upgrade GPU over time. I live in South Africa, so comparisons are difficult. For reference, a GTX 1060 is currently 50%-60% of the price I paid last year.

Edit: Pre-builts are definitely cheaper here as well and better value/peace of mind for parents, and cheaper short term. I wont deny that a i3-7100 would perform equal for cheaper right now.
Since its only been a year and a half and core count on the new i7 has doubled, I have some worries, but CPU still pushes over 100FPS at everything.
 
Last edited:

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
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Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
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Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
I would never go for a pre-built PC for one reason. I always (Since my Pentium 4) mismatch GFX card and CPU at first, and upgrade GPU over time. I live in South Africa, so comparisons are difficult. For reference, a GTX 1060 is currently 50%-60% of the price I paid last year.
Ryzen Raven Ridge is Changing that.
 

fullinfusion

Vanguard Beta Tester
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Video Card(s) Vega56 all day long
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Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores lol let's play!
@John Naylor, building a computer.... it has been nothing more then a leaky tap.... (money trap) always buying! I myself ride the wave and WAIT! I just wish I could Get the wave right now.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
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Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
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Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 5500 XT Pulse 8 GiB
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate Exos X12 TB 7200 RPM
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Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
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Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
I would never go for a pre-built PC for one reason. I always (Since my Pentium 4) mismatch GFX card and CPU at first, and upgrade GPU over time. I live in South Africa, so comparisons are difficult. For reference, a GTX 1060 is currently 50%-60% of the price I paid last year.

Edit: Pre-builts are definitely cheaper here as well and better value/peace of mind for parents, and cheaper short term. I wont deny that a i3-7100 would perform equal for cheaper right now.
Since its only been a year and a half and core count on the new i7 has doubled, I have some worries, but CPU still pushes over 100FPS at everything.
My problem with prebuilts is they love to use proprietary components which makes servicing them a pain. If it's not proprietary, it's BTX, and there's little in the way of BTX support in the aftermarket. What it boils down to is a simple question for me: do I want an appliance or not? Prebuilts are appliances where custom built can evolve over time. Short term prebuilt is usually cheaper but long term, it is not. Gaming consoles are cheaper up front for the same reason.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
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Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
My problem with prebuilts is they love to use proprietary components which makes servicing them a pain. If it's not proprietary, it's BTX, and there's little in the way of BTX support in the aftermarket. What it boils down to is a simple question for me: do I want an appliance or not? Prebuilts are appliances where custom built can evolve over time. Short term prebuilt is usually cheaper but long term, it is not. Gaming consoles are cheaper up front for the same reason.
Some prebuilts can be upgraded.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
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Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 5500 XT Pulse 8 GiB
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate Exos X12 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 VGA)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Vendors like Cyberpower that build machines from off the shelf parts, yeah. Most OEMs have free PCIe and (SO-)DIMM slots. I'm talking motherboard and power supply mostly. If the motherboard or power supply fails, either you have to buy the replacement part second hand or spend a small fortune to have the OEM repair it. The latter, the system might as well be considered totaled if it is out of warranty.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
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Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
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Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Vendors like Cyberpower that build machines from off the shelf parts, yeah. Most OEMs have free PCIe and (SO-)DIMM slots. I'm talking motherboard and power supply mostly. If the motherboard or power supply fails, either you have to buy the replacement part second hand or spend a small fortune to have the OEM repair it. The latter, the system might as well be considered totaled if it is out of warranty.
I know a lot of hps were like that, dells not so much
 
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One thing I hate about Dell's and HP's is the fact many of their key components are proprietary which basically means "Bend Over" if you need a component to be upgraded or replaced. Some models they make are fairly user-friendly that way but some are not. The thing is since many Dell's and such are made of proprietary components they can charge a much higher price since they would be the only source for said parts period and that's how they want it.

After I paid $1700 for the very first computer I ever owned back in the good 'ol days of Socket 370/A I learned how and been doing it ever since for far less.
Still have the case, board and CPU from it, the board and CPU still works to this day but beyond useless by now for anything that one could use it for.
 

AurumExtreme3_870

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Hey I know this be a young thread necro but power supplies on prebuilt units are usually made by Delta/Hipro and they have good build quality excluding the bad capacitor era (Until 2006).
Hell,excluding the Motherboard killing ATX-250E Bestec makes decent Oem power supplies. The only thing limiting them in upgradeability is mostly the lack of pci-e connectors or they lack the headroom due to being tailored only for the stock hardware configuration.
 
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