• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Research Proposal - Socket AM4 - Heatsink Orientation

Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
I'll be brief - I'm offering a hypothesis if anyone can test it. The hypothesis is as follows: one should attempt to orient the heatsink so that the heatpipes are not going across both CPU core modules if possible. Examples below.

Ryzen 3000

Like this

131563


Not like this

131564


Ryzen 1000-2000 & APUs

Like this

131566


Not like this

131565


What do you think? Anyone who can test?
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
272 (0.06/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 5900X
Motherboard MSI MAG X570 Tomahawk
Cooling Dual custom loops
Memory 4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z Neo 3200C14 B-Die
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6800XT Reference
Storage ADATA SX8200 480GB, Inland Premium 2TB, various HDDs
Display(s) MSI MAG341CQ
Case Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Schiit Fulla 3
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex Titanium SE 1000W
Mouse Glorious Model D
Keyboard Drop CTRL, lubed and filmed Halo Trues
Level1Techs had something to say about this in a recent video. I'm pretty sure it was this one:
 
D

Deleted member 185158

Guest
Don't think it'll make that great of a difference. 2c would be within margin of error.

The soldered IHS plate takes care of surface area quite well. The heat sink orientation will matter less than ambient temps along with case flow ect.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
Don't think it'll make that great of a difference. 2c would be within margin of error.

The soldered IHS plate takes care of surface area quite well. The heat sink orientation will matter less than ambient temps along with case flow ect.
Well that would be obviously be the null hypothesis. How did you determine a margin of error?
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,001 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
How can you even test this, considering most heatsinks can only be mounted one way on AM4 boards.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,001 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
How is that even a question?
If 99% of heatsinks can only be mounted one way, that's most, no?
But please, go ahead and find some suitable heatsinks to test your theory.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
If 99% of heatsinks can only be mounted one way, that's most, no?
But please, go ahead and find some suitable heatsinks to test your theory.
If 99% of heatsinks can only be mounted one way, then you test with the 1%.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
5,581 (3.00/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Memory 2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E @ 3800 CL16
Video Card(s) RTX3080 Ti FE
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) LG 34GN850P-B
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Audio Device(s) SoundBlaster G6 | Fidelio X2 | Sennheiser 6XX
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Endgame Gear XM1R
Keyboard Wooting Two HE
If 99% of heatsinks can only be mounted one way, then you test with the 1%.
And in regards to 99% of other test cases your research will be completely useless.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,001 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
If 99% of heatsinks can only be mounted one way, then you test with the 1%.
Since it's your idea, why don't you find a suitable heatsink and test it and show us the results?
I'm sure lots of people would be interested.
Personally, I'm not going to waste time or money on it.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
And in regards to 99% of other test cases your research will be completely useless.

Well thanks, I hadn't realized that.

No, it's not useless to increase the knowledge of how to best cool these CPUs.

Since it's your idea, why don't you find a suitable heatsink and test it and show us the results?
I'm sure lots of people would be interested.
Personally, I'm not going to waste time or money on it.

Because I'm hoping someone in the community already has one and can test it.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
4,839 (1.65/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI B450 Tomahawk ATX
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition
Memory VENGEANCE LPX 2 x 16GB DDR4-3600 C18 OCed 3800
Video Card(s) XFX Speedster SWFT309 AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT CORE Gaming
Storage 970 EVO NVMe M.2 500 GB, 870 QVO 1 TB
Display(s) Samsung 28” 4K monitor
Case Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s) EVGA NU Audio
Power Supply EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse SteelSeries Rival 310
Keyboard Logitech G G413 Silver
Software Windows 10 Professional 64-bit v22H2
Well I'm out of the running for the test since my heatsink base isn't direct contact heatpipes, and there is only one orientation.
proxy.duckduckgo.com.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
567 (0.29/day)
Location
PL, Krk (JPN, Tokyo)
System Name Nilin
Processor Ryzen 9 5800x
Motherboard Asus Rog Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi
Cooling Lian Li Galahad AIO 360
Memory G. Skill TridentZ Neo 32gb 3600Mhz CL16-16-16-36
Video Card(s) Asus TUF RTX 3080
Storage Samsung Evo 960 250gb (System), Samsung Evo 860 500gb (Misc), Samsung 990 Pro 1Tb (Games)
Display(s) LG 27" UHD IPS, LG Ultragear 27" WQHD Nano IPS
Case InWin 303 (7x Fractal Prisma 120mm)
Power Supply Tt Toughpower Grand RGB 850W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 3
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21022952 (old system)
131612

Hyper 212Evo would be perfect for this.
I dont have new ryzen yet to check myself though...
I guess there is also an airflow issue which could potentially invalidate results.
Front intake - back exhaust cases might profit more from vertical orientation.
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
1,325 (0.39/day)
Location
Nowy Warsaw
System Name SYBARIS
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard MSI Arsenal Gaming B450 Tomahawk
Cooling Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi
Memory Team T-Force Delta RGB 2x8GB 3200CL16
Video Card(s) Colorful GeForce RTX 2060 6GV2
Storage Crucial MX500 500GB | WD Black WD1003FZEX 1TB | Seagate ST1000LM024 1TB | WD My Passport Slim 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24G2 24" 144hz IPS
Case Montech Air ARGB
Audio Device(s) Massdrop + Sennheiser PC37X | QKZ x HBB
Power Supply Corsair CX650-F
Mouse Razer Viper Mini | Cooler Master MM711 | Logitech G102 | Logitech G402
Keyboard Drop + The Lord of the Rings Dwarvish
Software Windows 10 Education 22H2 x64
Well I'm out of the running for the test since my heatsink base isn't direct contact heatpipes, and there is only one orientation.
View attachment 131611
Same. And I don't think AMD chips need this much user intervention to get good cooling either. They use solder with good quality heat-spreader if going by past Ryzen implementations, and their IHS is somewhat flat that doesn't need lapping.

Most of the Ryzen 3000 temp problems stems from immature 7nm process, high voltage requirement imho.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
View attachment 131612
Hyper 212Evo would be perfect for this.
I dont have new ryzen yet to check myself though...
I guess there is also an airflow issue which could potentially invalidate results.
Front intake - back exhaust cases might profit more from vertical orientation.
Does its mounting kit enable both orientations?

Well I'm out of the running for the test since my heatsink base isn't direct contact heatpipes, and there is only one orientation.
View attachment 131611
That could be another variable - whether the extra heatspreader on the heatsink removes any difference.
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
567 (0.29/day)
Location
PL, Krk (JPN, Tokyo)
System Name Nilin
Processor Ryzen 9 5800x
Motherboard Asus Rog Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi
Cooling Lian Li Galahad AIO 360
Memory G. Skill TridentZ Neo 32gb 3600Mhz CL16-16-16-36
Video Card(s) Asus TUF RTX 3080
Storage Samsung Evo 960 250gb (System), Samsung Evo 860 500gb (Misc), Samsung 990 Pro 1Tb (Games)
Display(s) LG 27" UHD IPS, LG Ultragear 27" WQHD Nano IPS
Case InWin 303 (7x Fractal Prisma 120mm)
Power Supply Tt Toughpower Grand RGB 850W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 3
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21022952 (old system)
Does its mounting kit enable both orientations?
0002874_hyper-212-plusevo-accessories-kit_625.jpeg
This X looking thing pins the heatsink to the board,
since heatpipes are quite packed (compared to noctua d15 f.e.),
You can position them either side.
I havent done AM4 but I did both orientations on AM3+
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
621 (0.10/day)
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
System Name BorgX79
Processor i7-3930k 6/12cores@4.4GHz
Motherboard Sabertoothx79
Cooling Capitan 360
Memory Muhskin DDR3-1866
Video Card(s) Sapphire R480 8GB
Storage Chronos SSD
Display(s) 3x VW266H
Case Ching Mien 600
Audio Device(s) Realtek
Power Supply Cooler Master 1000W Silent Pro
Mouse Logitech G900
Keyboard Rosewill RK-1000
Software Win7x64
I think it would be minimal, if there's any difference at all, as long as there's a heat spreader between the pipes and the die.

If the pipes are exposed to the chip, there could be some difference; in that case, the orientation that has the maximal contact area with the die is going to cool better.
The more coverage, the better the heat transfer.

Even a thin heatspreader (2-4mm copper,~1mm aluminum) will negate the effect, tho.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
222 (0.13/day)
System Name Temp SFF Rig :'(
Processor Q9550
Motherboard HP OEM
Cooling just about...
Memory 8GB DDR2 :rockout:
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GT 1030 LP OC to 1850+ Boost!!!
Storage 120GB SSD & 160GB HDD :(
Display(s) Acer ED242QR - 24" Curved 1080p 75Hz Freesync
Case HP SFF Desktop
Power Supply HP SFF 260w
Software Windows 10 1903
How many days have you been awake? put the pipe down and go and get some sleep... :laugh:
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
757 (0.41/day)
You won’t find ANY heatsink that can do this due to the obvious obstruction called a heat pipe.

You can test with it sitting on the CPU and a solid connection with thermal paste, but that’ll prove nothing as you cannot do it mounted, regardless of how hard you try.

The difference will be close to zero, and as said, within a margin of error. Different thermal paste application variance will cause the difference alone.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
418 (0.24/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus
Memory 32 GB 3600 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage 2x 500 GB SSD, 2x 3 TB HDD
Case Phanteks P300A
Software Manjaro Linux, W10 if I have to
D

Deleted member 185158

Guest
Well that would be obviously be the null hypothesis. How did you determine a margin of error?

Magin of error. 1c id about 2f degree. Room temp can fluctuate that much easily.
Changing thermal paste can be that far off or even more if burn in time is required.

The heat spreader is soldered and does its job quite well as a result.
Turning the heat sink wont make any real difference.

That is all....

P.S. Im one of the only active users running a lid-less pga 2700x and have done plenty of testing.

I can tell you first hand that even a 10c drop in temps will not bring your max clocks any higher.
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
1,325 (0.39/day)
Location
Nowy Warsaw
System Name SYBARIS
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard MSI Arsenal Gaming B450 Tomahawk
Cooling Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi
Memory Team T-Force Delta RGB 2x8GB 3200CL16
Video Card(s) Colorful GeForce RTX 2060 6GV2
Storage Crucial MX500 500GB | WD Black WD1003FZEX 1TB | Seagate ST1000LM024 1TB | WD My Passport Slim 1TB
Display(s) AOC 24G2 24" 144hz IPS
Case Montech Air ARGB
Audio Device(s) Massdrop + Sennheiser PC37X | QKZ x HBB
Power Supply Corsair CX650-F
Mouse Razer Viper Mini | Cooler Master MM711 | Logitech G102 | Logitech G402
Keyboard Drop + The Lord of the Rings Dwarvish
Software Windows 10 Education 22H2 x64
P.S. Im one of the only active users running a lid-less pga 2700x and have done plenty of testing.

I can tell you first hand that even a 10c drop in temps will not bring your max clocks any higher.
From what I read lower temp plays a very important role in Ryzen 3000's updated boost algorithm.
 
D

Deleted member 185158

Guest
The boost is partially temp reliant. The other is voltage.
The more volts the more heat and back to square one.

The initial boost may be higher until throttle point is reached in temps and then the clocks lower under load.

But turning a heat sink has nothing to do with bios updates.

The argument is testing turning a heatsink for slightly better temps.
If you squeeze 2c from turning the heat sink... You wont be getting anything special from it.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
221 (0.05/day)
System Name Mixed Bag of OC
Processor AMD Ryzen 5800X3D
Motherboard Maxsun MS-iCraft B550M WIFI
Cooling CPU+GPU on Water with 3 X 420 Rad´s
Memory 32GB Patriot Viper RGB @ 3800 Mhz CL14
Video Card(s) XFX Merc 310 RX 7900 XTX
Storage 2TB Kingston Fury + 2TB Samsung PCIe 4 NVME
Display(s) Philips 48OLED806
Case Selfmade Huuuuuge *Case* :)
Audio Device(s) ifi Zen DAC + Monoprice M1060C & Burmester Replica AMP + Selfmade Huuuuuge Speakers :)
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TX-750
Mouse Kensington Slimblade (main device) + Razer Basilisk V3 (for FPS)
Keyboard Sharkoon PureWriter RGB, Kailh Blue switches
VR HMD None
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores do not matter, my PC is fast :)
Its in german but He answers all your questions. In Short: " Higher flowrate in Case of watercoolers Matters more than orientation or Design."

And
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
2,965 (1.78/day)
Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
System Name PC on since Aug 2019, 1st CPU R5 3600 + ASUS ROG RX580 8GB >> MSI Gaming X RX5700XT (Jan 2020)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X (July 2022), 150W PPT limit, 79C temp limit, CO -9~14
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro (Rev1.0), BIOS F37h, AGESA V2 1.2.0.B
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420mm Rev7 with off center mount for Ryzen, TIM: Kryonaut
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo GTZN (July 2022) 3600MHz 1.42V CL16-16-16-16-32-48 1T, tRFC:288, B-die
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 7900XTX (Dec 2023) 314~465W (366W current) PowerLimit, 1060mV, Adrenalin v24.2.1
Storage Samsung NVMe: 980Pro 1TB(OS 2022), 970Pro 512GB(2019) / SATA-III: 850Pro 1TB(2015) 860Evo 1TB(2020)
Display(s) Dell Alienware AW3423DW 34" QD-OLED curved (1800R), 3440x1440 144Hz (max 175Hz) HDR1000
Case None... naked on desk
Audio Device(s) Astro A50 headset
Power Supply Corsair HX750i, 80+ Platinum, 93% (250~700W), modular, single/dual rail (switch)
Mouse Logitech MX Master (Gen1)
Keyboard Logitech G15 (Gen2) w/ LCDSirReal applet
Software Windows 11 Home 64bit (v23H2, OSB 22631.3155)
Ryzen's 3000 clocks can be affected by temps, boost and all core. Dont mix 3000 with previous gens. Yes, maybe there is a disfuction in clocks algorithm, affecting boost, and AMD claims to resolve it but in spite of that alone, temps adding further mis-targeting.
For example mine (4200 rated) boosting to 4125~4150 and not more when temp is in low 50s (C), or even below 50C . After that, 4100 is the max posible.

Any way... the OP's and Level1Techs's point do have some reason in that thought but we are talking about 1~2 degrees maybe, as stated by others.
In order to avoid temperature throtling eventually you need better cooling solution, and/or lower ambient temp... and not heatsink orientation. It wont help...
 
Last edited:
Top