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Researchers are testing concrete that could charge your EV while you drive

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Magnetized cement promises reasonably priced, high efficiency wireless charging.

Capture2.PNG


Roads that can charge electric cars or buses while you drive aren't a new concept, but so far the technology has been relatively expensive and inefficient.
However, Indiana's Department of Transport (INDOT) has announced that it's testing a new type of cement with embedded magnetized particles that could one day provide efficient,
high-speed charging at "standard roadbuilding costs," Autoblog has reported.
Capture.PNG



With funding from the National Science Foundation (NSF), INDOT has teamed with Purdue University and German company Magment on the project.
They'll carry out the research in three phases, first testing if the magnetized cement (called "magment," naturally) will work in the lab, then trying it out on a quarter-mile section of road.

In a brochure, Magment said its product delivers "record-breaking wireless transmission efficiency [at] up to 95 percent,"
adding that it can be built at "standard road-building installation costs" and that it's "robust and vandalism-proof."
The company also notes that slabs with the embedded ferrite particles could be built locally, presumably under license.

The final phase sounds ambitious, with INDOT saying it would "test the innovative concrete’s capacity to charge heavy trucks operation at high power (200 kilowatts and above)."
If the final quarter-mile test track is a success, INDOT will use the tech to electrify an undermined segment of public interstate in Indiana.

Powering heavy trucks directly from the road without any pollution at an affordable price would be an environmental breakthrough, but there's still a lot of work to do to prove it works.
Plenty of other similar efforts are underway, as the UK has committed around $780 million for under-road charging research, for example.
Sweden has also tested slot-car like technology that would contain an electrified "rail" embedded into roads. This latest efforts sounds far less complicated, provided it lives up to Magment's claims.


Interesting, however I think it will take many years till most people drive an electric car in the first place, they could start using this technology already for any new roads IMO.
 

dorsetknob

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Sweden has also tested slot-car like technology that would contain an electrified "rail" embedded into roads
Anyone remember "Airfix Slot cars or the more Sucessfull Scaletrix Cars"
Who would have thought that full size Slot cars may one day be a reality
 
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This kind of reminds me of Solar Roadways or whatever the concept was called a few years back. Basically, the idea was to replace most pavement on roads, in parking lots, etc. with specially-designed solar panels that could handle the weight of a car driving on top of them. Considering that it is hard enough to build and maintain solar farms as it is, the Solar Roadways project didn't really gain much traction due to the insane engineering and building costs required. The time to ROI was way too far out.

Although magnetized concrete looks like it might be cheaper to integrate into roads than solar panels, and although the tech ultimately serves a different purpose, I have doubts about its possible efficiency or effectiveness. Besides, who will pay for the energy needed to magnetize the concrete? Surely some vehicle tracking system needs to be put in place in order to bill those who drive their cars on the road the longest. There's a good chance that this will flop just like Solar Roadways, albeit for different reasons.
 
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How does one charge for such usage?
 

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Road surfaces take SO much abuse ... and will there be emergency rewire teams when cars go up in flames and literally vaporize the road and fancy recharge pads? Modern high quality asphalt is not exactly simple, but embedding electrical into it is going to be a nightmare imho.
 
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So they are saying they have enough power to charge all those hundreds of electric cars and everyone else will pay for the infrastructure (government money is just taxpayer money)

Sounds like a win for those who can afford electric cars at the expense of those who cannot.
 
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It sounds like magnets in the tires and road working against each other to create a magnetic field and thus electricity, there aren't literally wires in the road or any electrical infrastructure requirements if I understand this right.

It's a good idea to minimize electrical losses, but calling it "charging" might be a stretch. It's more like capturing energy that would otherwise be lost. Still not a bad idea. And I may be completely misunderstanding this, the article is vague.
 
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It sounds like magnets in the tires and road working against each other to create a magnetic field and thus electricity, there aren't literally wires in the road or any electrical infrastructure requirements if I understand this right.

It's a good idea to minimize electrical losses, but calling it "charging" might be a stretch. It's more like capturing energy that would otherwise be lost. Still not a bad idea. And I may be completely misunderstanding this, the article is vague.
Sounds more like steered beam wireless charging. The effects of using magnets to charge an electric vehicle (which would increase its rolling resistance negating the charging effect except on downhill where they already use regenative braking) would be a net loss, but then again solar roadways were taken seriously
 
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where they already use regenative braking
I was thinking to improve regenerative breaking but you raise a valid point it would hurt anything else.

Solar roadways were taken seriously by facebook users and social media and not much else.

If it is like you describe it'll likely be metered electric similar to a toll system.
 
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Most likely similar to induction charging which has already been suggested in the past for vehicles.
 
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Sounds too optimistic to me, how are they going to limit the inducted current to only the required components instead of everything conductive within the car?
 

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Cancer more like it, imo the idea is stupid

Battery vehicles are stupid
 
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Ah yes, electricity, the main cause of cancer.
You never know - Or maybe sterility with such prolonged exposure to strong magnetic fields?

Go ahead and take the chance if you want, I have no personal plans for doing that myself.
 

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Throw it in at traffic lights where vehicles are idling a lot consuming power, and you already have the infrastructure in place for electricity and regular maintenace
 
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Cancer more like it, imo the idea is stupid

Battery vehicles are stupid

EVs are going to take over the world whether you like it or not. "Battery vehicles" are better solution for a car than gas vehicles even if you disregard the environment benefits, better acceleration, can preheat/cool even in an enclosed space, so much cheaper to run and so much cheaper to maintain, brakes last forever. Don't need to go to a gas station your car is just always full, or if not, then a 15-30 minute charging session at a fast charger or a 3 hours at a slow charger once a week would work, and many businesses offer free charging as an incentive for you to come (and spend more time in their store). Any other vehicle will be better as a plug-in hybrid than just a gas car. Even if you have nowhere to plug, plug-ins will still be more efficient than standard hybrids considering the battery size, and you get the benefit of having extra torque and horsepower; see the RAV4 Prime. Pretty sure fuel exhaust is more cancerous. I feel like Hydrogen would be a good compromise eventually, and much better for trucks, planes and the like.

So they are saying they have enough power to charge all those hundreds of electric cars and everyone else will pay for the infrastructure (government money is just taxpayer money)

Sounds like a win for those who can afford electric cars at the expense of those who cannot.

No, governments like to take money, they will tax EVs yearly through registration and have the users pay for it. EVs are getting more affordable, you could get a 2012 i-Miev for 3K. I'd argue that EVs are cheap when you look at it mid to long term, fuel savings and low maintenance. In urban areas, where most people live, and where you drive at slower speeds and break a lot, EVs are crazy efficient.

Also remember that most countries are investing to lower their emissions, having people go electric is probably somewhat efficient, especially compare to carbon-capture obviously. This sounds like induction charging for sure, I highly doubt this will make sense anytime soon, unless new cars will have the hardware built-in and it becomes universal, I don't see how owners will invest in hardware to be compatible on top of paying electric rates that are likely much higher than what they pay at home, where there car gets charged, usually at lower rates during the night.

I guess I could see this work for big cities with a lot of public transit, in bus lanes and bus stops, the transition to 100% electric buses is accelerating
 
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EVs are going to take over the world whether you like it or not. "Battery vehicles" are better solution for a car than gas vehicles even if you disregard the environment benefits, better acceleration, can preheat/cool even in an enclosed space, so much cheaper to run and so much cheaper to maintain, brakes last forever. Don't need to go to a gas station your car is just always full, or if not, then a 15-30 minute charging session at a fast charger or a 3 hours at a slow charger once a week would work, and many businesses offer free charging as an incentive for you to come (and spend more time in their store). Any other vehicle will be better as a plug-in hybrid than just a gas car. Even if you have nowhere to plug, plug-ins will still be more efficient than standard hybrids considering the battery size, and you get the benefit of having extra torque and horsepower; see the RAV4 Prime. Pretty sure fuel exhaust is more cancerous. I feel like Hydrogen would be a good compromise eventually, and much better for trucks, planes and the like.

No, governments like to take money, they will tax EVs yearly through registration and have the users pay for it. EVs are getting more affordable, you could get a 2012 i-Miev for 3K. I'd argue that EVs are cheap when you look at it mid to long term, fuel savings and low maintenance. In urban areas, where most people live, and where you drive at slower speeds and break a lot, EVs are crazy efficient.


Also remember that most countries are investing to lower their emissions, having people go electric is probably somewhat efficient, especially compare to carbon-capture obviously. This sounds like induction charging for sure, I highly doubt this will make sense anytime soon, unless new cars will have the hardware built-in and it becomes universal, I don't see how owners will invest in hardware to be compatible on top of paying electric rates that are likely much higher than what they pay at home, where there car gets charged, usually at lower rates during the night.

I guess I could see this work for big cities with a lot of public transit, in bus lanes and bus stops, the transition to 100% electric buses is accelerating
Some of the above is fine, other parts of it I don't agree with as if electric is the magic cure-all which it's not.

Certainly NOT cheaper to maintain and fix and also not be as reliable too at times.
I used to work on electric industrial vehicles to know this as fact. You'd also be suprised just how frequently they will quit and for the dumbest of reasons too, some of these not even a real issue for it but it just quits and that's it.
No fixing it yourself either to save money - You WILL pay.

And I'm sorry, charging it just once a week isn't going to cut it for many because each person's situation isn't the same as yours.
Besides....
Bucket of electrons.jpg
I mean really....
It's not like you're Ben Franklin with a kite, string and key tied off to what could be called a gasfill, just waiting for a storm to come along and fill 'er up.
And then you have times when the power goes out right when you'd need that charge for the morning trip and I'm sorry - Ain't nobody got time to be sitting for 3 damned hours at a charging station in the middle of a roadtrip.
Electrics have advantages, that's true but we are NOWHERE near all of this being feasable to just "Go for it". Alot more work and research has to be done to make the tech good enough so all the previous I"ve mentioned is a minor thing at worst.

I know this is about concrete that supposedly charges a battery as it goes but at the same time, that's not quite reality yet either.

You're talking about such things that's probrably becoming mainstream years from now and I seriously doubt by 2030 as some are saying, even 2040 for alot of it is a stretch at this point.
For things like the Metro and such electrics are fine and have been in use for over a century but those also have fixed ways of supplying power, costly to maintain and even dangerous in some ways.
Those are different in so many ways than what we, as individuals would have to use to get around.
 
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Some of the above is fine, other parts of it I don't agree with as if electric is the magic cure-all which it's not.
Not for every form of transport, but certainly for the majority. I don't expect a cruise-ship to be fully electric for example.
Certainly NOT cheaper to maintain and fix and also not be as reliable too at times.
I used to work on electric industrial vehicles to know this as fact. You'd also be suprised just how frequently they will quit and for the dumbest of reasons too, some of these not even a real issue for it but it just quits and that's it.
No fixing it yourself either to save money - You WILL pay.
I didn't know about reliability for industrial vehicles, some industries are going to be harder to convert or not see enough benefits. There's also just plain fleecing in many industries. You'll find that electric consumer vehicles and public transit buses do save a lot on maintenance, dealerships will sell x amount of years maintenance packages at much lower cost than for a gas car, there are simply less parts in an EV, and electric motors are usually highly reliable. Even wear items like brakes/brake fluid and chassis durability due to aluminium flat undersides are cheaper. It's true that EV maintenance isn't nearly as mature as gas car maintenance, but it's getting there, there is a decent DIY car conversion community. I doubt you could do a DIY electric to gas car conversion!
And I'm sorry, charging it just once a week isn't going to cut it for many because each person's situation isn't the same as yours.
Actually, most people live in urban areas. For someone who has a garage, it's a no-brainer, you're topped up all the time, unless you do more than 250+ miles everyday. My point was that even for someone who can't charge because they don't have parking in their apartment building or don't have a driveway or garage, it's still doable.
It's not like you're Ben Franklin with a kite, string and key tied off to what could be called a gasfill, just waiting for a storm to come along and fill 'er up.
And then you have times when the power goes out right when you'd need that charge for the morning trip and I'm sorry - Ain't no body got time to be sitting for 3 damned hours at a charging station in the middle of a roadtrip.

Electrics have advantages, that's true but we are NOWHERE near all of this being feasable to just "Go for it". Alot more work and research has to be done to make the tech good enough so all the previous I"ve mentioned is a minor thing at worst.
When's the last time you ran out of gas? How likely is someone with a driveway or garage going to run out of electricity? CAA and AAA have trucks with Level 2 and Level 3 charging. It's not like you'll be 100 miles from a charger, all you need is 10-15 miles. All along highways your charging is Level 3 charging, my car only charges at 50KW as they haven't upgraded the charging speed since 2013, but modern EVs have 100KW or 150KW charging, which would be 150-200 miles per half hour of charging. Tesla Model 3 charges much faster at 250KW, you get about 280 miles in 28 minutes, so for road trips are are 600-700 miles or less, you only need to stop once, maybe go pee, grab a coffee, or have lunch.

The transition is not going to go from 0-100 right away, but it WILL get there.

My experience is with my BMW i3S, it does have a 2.4 gallon tank to run a little generator that adds 85 miles, since my car only has 115 miles electric range, and Montreal winters can get really cold, but it was because I didn't have the ability to charge at home. An average EV today tends to be about 250 miles of range.
 
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1: Not for every form of transport, but certainly for the majority. I don't expect a cruise-ship to be fully electric for example.

2: I didn't know about reliability for industrial vehicles, some industries are going to be harder to convert or not see enough benefits. There's also just plain fleecing in many industries.

3: You'll find that electric consumer vehicles and public transit buses do save a lot on maintenance, dealerships will sell x amount of years maintenance packages at much lower cost than for a gas car, there are simply less parts in an EV, and electric motors are usually highly reliable.

4: Even wear items like brakes/brake fluid and chassis durability due to aluminium flat undersides are cheaper. It's true that EV maintenance isn't nearly as mature as gas car maintenance, but it's getting there, there is a decent DIY car conversion community. I doubt you could do a DIY electric to gas car conversion!

5: Actually, most people live in urban areas. For someone who has a garage, it's a no-brainer, you're topped up all the time, unless you do more than 250+ miles everyday. My point was that even for someone who can't charge because they don't have parking in their apartment building or don't have a driveway or garage, it's still doable.

6: When's the last time you ran out of gas? How likely is someone with a driveway or garage going to run out of electricity? CAA and AAA have trucks with Level 2 and Level 3 charging. It's not like you'll be 100 miles from a charger, all you need is 10-15 miles.

7: All along highways your charging is Level 3 charging, my car only charges at 50KW as they haven't upgraded the charging speed since 2013, but modern EVs have 100KW or 150KW charging, which would be 150-200 miles per half hour of charging. Tesla Model 3 charges much faster at 250KW, you get about 280 miles in 28 minutes, so for road trips are are 600-700 miles or less, you only need to stop once, maybe go pee, grab a coffee, or have lunch.

The transition is not going to go from 0-100 right away, but it WILL get there.

My experience is with my BMW i3S, it does have a 2.4 gallon tank to run a little generator that adds 85 miles, since my car only has 115 miles electric range, and Montreal winters can get really cold, but it was because I didn't have the ability to charge at home. An average EV today tends to be about 250 miles of range.
1: Nor do I and with each type of transportation you will see exceptions for it or against. The only "Real" sensible solution is to go by the situation for each application and go with what's best.

2: You got that right! Based on the industry and it's setting electronics simply can't handle the conditions it would be operating under such as extremes in temperature, dust, vibration, shock, and alot of other things. I've worked on them under all these conditions and each brings it's own set of headaches, none of which are easy to deal with at times.
You can do things to help them deal with these conditions but they still suffer.... And so do you with the headache of dealing with it.

3: I used to work at a dealer to know better than this..... The reality of it is FAR different than you realize. The maintenance packages for example are full of "Things" that won't be covered for various (BS) reasons and that's why the dealer offers those - The terms of such a package are actually stacked against the customer so chances are they will have to pay.
Ain't no free lunch here.

4: Alot of this goes back to point 3, the cost of that ( Consumables) is wrapped up and included in the package but you never see it.
BTW I wasn't aware a vehicle chassis itself was supposed to be a wearable item... That's actually part of the vehicle's structure you know.
As for electric to gas conversions, yes you can IF you wanted to and if you're creative enough.

5: I can't see that as being doable to the point of practicallity in every situation no matter what.
Parked on the street and needing a charge? I don't know "How" they'd do that but can guarantee it won't be via extension cord because there is a real chance these days someone will grab it and run, leaving you stranded if you tried it that way.

And while the majority do tend to live in urban areas that doesn't mean "Most", that can be a 55/45 split of the population for example with 55% urban, 45% rural.
You can't leave the rural guys out either, again not every situation is ideal or the same as you may think and frankly that's discrimination based on where they'd live.

A way of doing things has to be capable of dealing with all of it like what it's replacing does, not just select bits and pieces of the problem leaving gaps to be filled in later if at all.

6: That's been YEARS ago and I keep an eye on my gauge.
As for outlets, you can't always rely on that either due to power outages and no, many do not have a garage or even what could be called a driveway making access to a plug or outlet a problem.

Placing the burden of charging an electric like this on people with no support for it is only going to lead to alot of dead, stranded vehicles right where they sit. You can't guarantee 10-20 miles down the road is going to have power either.
This is true, esp after things like a natural disaster such as a hurricane.
You can go for weeks, in some cases months before you get it back and I know your current charge isn't going to last that long, even if it's at 100% when it hits.

7: Now this is something I don't about, when you say "Level 3 Charging"....

And the problem with the rest is as before - I'm not going to be sitting for 30 minutes, an hour or even more just waiting on a charge to finish. My time is worth something to me and I don't have much of it to waste twiddling my thumbs. In many cases time IS money too and waiting for the charger just doesn't work.
With gas you just fill and go, that simple and way less standing around waiting too.

I try to make good use of what time I've got because I already know I don't have too much of that left anyway, certainly not enough that I'll ever see all the electric stuff become mainstream.
It could happen but I doubt it and if I do, I probrably woudn't care by then anyway. ;)
 
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EVs are going to take over the world whether you like it or not. "Battery vehicles" are better solution for a car than gas vehicles even if you disregard the environment benefits, better acceleration, can preheat/cool even in an enclosed space, so much cheaper to run and so much cheaper to maintain, brakes last forever. Don't need to go to a gas station your car is just always full, or if not, then a 15-30 minute charging session at a fast charger or a 3 hours at a slow charger once a week would work, and many businesses offer free charging as an incentive for you to come (and spend more time in their store). Any other vehicle will be better as a plug-in hybrid than just a gas car. Even if you have nowhere to plug, plug-ins will still be more efficient than standard hybrids considering the battery size, and you get the benefit of having extra torque and horsepower; see the RAV4 Prime. Pretty sure fuel exhaust is more cancerous. I feel like Hydrogen would be a good compromise eventually, and much better for trucks, planes and the like.



No, governments like to take money, they will tax EVs yearly through registration and have the users pay for it. EVs are getting more affordable, you could get a 2012 i-Miev for 3K. I'd argue that EVs are cheap when you look at it mid to long term, fuel savings and low maintenance. In urban areas, where most people live, and where you drive at slower speeds and break a lot, EVs are crazy efficient.

Also remember that most countries are investing to lower their emissions, having people go electric is probably somewhat efficient, especially compare to carbon-capture obviously. This sounds like induction charging for sure, I highly doubt this will make sense anytime soon, unless new cars will have the hardware built-in and it becomes universal, I don't see how owners will invest in hardware to be compatible on top of paying electric rates that are likely much higher than what they pay at home, where there car gets charged, usually at lower rates during the night.

I guess I could see this work for big cities with a lot of public transit, in bus lanes and bus stops, the transition to 100% electric buses is accelerating
I only see electric transport working efficiently in cities and for mass transit, and only if we can get ourselves ready for better nuclear base load with solar and wind supplementing where they are feasible.

Are they more "green" or better? No, for a plethora of reasons.
#1 They have to be manufactured, which creates more emissions than they will save VS just driving what we already have and use that is efficient.
#2 Not all electricity comes from Nuclear which is the "greenest" source.
#3 Increased grid load means more installations of dumb things like natural gas turbines to cover up the peak demand periods.
#4 Battery energy density is still piss poor compared to liquid fuels.
#5 Battery replacements are a joke
#6 Moving pollution to countries without regulations is just throwing our shit in a neighbors yard.
#7 Carbon credits are what make Tesla go, not electric vehicles. Same for every other electric vehicle manufactured.
#8 Installing infrastructure has to count against their footprint.
#9 Wait until the more ignorant masses get EVs and we will see how much safety and maintenance needs improved.

When we can solve 5 of these electric vehicles will be the better choice for the masses.
 
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#1 They have to be manufactured, which creates more emissions than they will save VS just driving what we already have and use that is efficient.
Where is the evidence backing up this claim?
 
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#1 They have to be manufactured, which creates more emissions than they will save VS just driving what we already have and use that is efficient.

Where is the evidence backing up this claim?
That's because this isn't an episode of "Bewitched" with a cute blonde wiggling her nose to make them appear... Like magic.

The materials have to be mined and that causes what some eco-guys call a problem, fuel must be expended in this operation, waste of course is generated be it in the soil that's not used, materials used for mining it like metals for equipment or tools, you also have a potential issue from the mining called erosion too.
That's only the start of it.

I used to work in a mining operation years ago and you'd be suprised at how much goes into digging a hole.
 
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Where is the evidence backing up this claim?

As stated above, EVs aren't built out of thin air and magic dust.


Even if we assume they are the same as a petrol car for manufacturing, if you already own a newer petrol car you are doing more damage to buy a new EV VS just driving what you own and using it responsibly.
 
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"Studies have shown that in the US, Europe, and in China, producing an electric vehicle creates more greenhouse-gas emissions than producing an equivalent gas-powered vehicle."

which is quite different from your claim

"They have to be manufactured, which creates more emissions than they will save VS just driving what we already have and use that is efficient."
 
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