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Researchers are testing concrete that could charge your EV while you drive

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Wow a sample size of one, how convincing, reported by one guy and not even verified. I call shens. 3300 lbs going 70 mph. isn't going to be stopped by regenerative braking. Let's see you get away with not using brakes in stop-and-go traffic.
Yes, the car stops with regen braking alone in stop and go. No it won't work for panic stops, though it does assist. Yes, it will stop without brakes, even at 70mph, provided you have enough space, if you don't, it still reduces the load on the brakes. The BMW i3 isn't even that strong of a regen braking, a lot of EVs let you control how strong the regen braking is with paddles behind the steering wheel.

Go watch a review of a Nissan Leaf or Ioniq 5 or even the i3, maybe you'll understand once you see it?

The i3's regen is 55KW, its motor is 125KW and does 0-60 in 6.9s. The regen is 44% of that acceleration. A Model 3 is 77KW, a Bolt ~70KW, a Porsche Taycan, 265KW
 
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How does one charge for such usage?

An EV is already an IoT device with wheels. Cant be hard...

I'd agree that today it isn't a one-size fits all at all, but it is still trending towards mass adoption. Urban is 75+% of the population for NA, EU, AUS, NZ, Japan.

#1 Agreed, buying a new car will create more emissions, assuming the car you own isn't a gas guzzler. Still, throughout its lifetime the EV will create a lot less emissions. My BMW i3S' chassis is made from carbon-fiber, and the energy to make it was hydropower in Washington State. They gone so far as to use recycled materials for almost everything, Eucalyptus wood as it's a more "green" and renewable wood, leather dyed with olive leaf oil or something like that, they used as little amount of material as possible to shave a few ounces here and there etc. They also designed it to be somewhat modular so they could keep the same chassis and be able to easily swap to higher density batteries

#2 Hydro, Solar & Wind are going to be miles better than NG and Coal. Cost of switching to Renewables is plummeting, even cheaper than traditional methods, and much of the world is transitioning to them. This means that your EV will get better environmentally over time, vs a gas vehicle getting worse

#3 New grid energy is mostly renewables, using mostly renewables with a few NG plants to cover variation is going to be way better than the old ways still. Don't forget that the majority of the charging will be done during off-peak, especially if there is peak vs off-peak rates. Hopefully one day batteries will be cheap enough to take over NG plants

#4 Does it matter? I know that in the US there's a bigger driving/roadtrip culture, but that also means that the average American family tends to have more than 1 car and having a garage or driveway. If you have a house, having the commuter car be electric or Plug-in Hybrid makes a ton of sense in that situation.

#5 Why would you need to replace the battery? They all have 8-10 year warranties and it's not like they stop working, you'll just have lower range, maybe 20% less after 8-10 years? Plus old car batteries can be reused for other purposes where energy density/weight is not a factor

#6 I mean, it's not like we produce the materials for gas cars in-house and in a green way... Building EVs doesn't have to mean moving moving pollution. Many cars are made in SK, Japan, China... If anything, EVs being targeted towards the environmentally-conscious will be more inclined to limit the emissions to produce the vehicle.

#7 Isn't oil/gas heavily subsidized and more and more supplied by fracking operations?

#8 The beauty of an EV is that for many people, the infrastructure is right there, in your home. I'm sure the infrastructure for maintaining this level of oil production is huge, oil spills, refineries, trucking and trains to move it to where you need it, an ungodly amount of gas stations, many of which are open 24/7. There has to be a footprint, but idk if you can call it more than just keeping the status-quo

#9 The ignorant already tinker inside their gas vehicles, it's going to be much safer for an EV, all you need to deal with is pulling on the High Voltage disconnect.

On the topic of electric outages, your average EV with 250 miles of range will already be topped up if you charge at home, I'm sure you can manage to get to a charging station. Is the US really that bad for outages?! It felt like the Texas debacle was an issue of lax regulations. Here in QC 99% of our electricity is made from Hydro power (we even call our electric bill the hydro bill), and the grid is very reliable even in rural areas. In winter, if there were outages for a week, thousands would die, most of our heating is electric.

Sorry if I'm annoying, I love discussing the topic of pros and cons of EVs lol, you can tell me to shut up :p

Thanks for saving me having to type your wall of text ;)

Yeah. Been driving an ID3 and so far... I really have to go hypercritical to find a con compared to previous ICEs Ive had. Range anxiety is just that. But I bought a charge cable now that can connect to any ordinary wall socket (! Infrastructure?? Lol) so even that rare occasion where Murphy's Law applies, Im still better equipped than in any ICE. After all, electricity is everywhere.

That and the range is really just fine at 400+km specced range. Worst case conditions can shave 150km off it (strong winds, extreme colds, bad roads).

All the other supposed disadvantages and it being worse than ICE in footprint is old car lobby bullshit. It really is. Tesla is building factories everywhere. Germany still produces in the same places. And EV is already equal or more efficient within the first years of its development. How long has ICE been innovated on now?
 
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An EV is already an IoT device with wheels. Cant be hard...



Thanks for saving me having to type your wall of text ;)

Yeah. Been driving an ID3 and so far... I really have to go hypercritical to find a con compared to previous ICEs Ive had. Range anxiety is just that. But I bought a charge cable now that can connect to any ordinary wall socket (! Infrastructure?? Lol) so even that rare occasion where Murphy's Law applies, Im still better equipped than in any ICE. After all, electricity is everywhere.

That and the range is really just fine at 400+km specced range. Worst case conditions can shave 150km off it (strong winds, extreme colds, bad roads).

All the other supposed disadvantages and it being worse than ICE in footprint is old car lobby bullshit. It really is. Tesla is building factories everywhere. Germany still produces in the same places. And EV is already equal or more efficient within the first years of its development. How long has ICE been innovated on now?
I mean, i have a 12V battery pack to jump start my car cause it keeps going flat once a month or so

How far could something like that kick a tesla in a power saving mode?

If we can charge at any socket and get portable batteries to replace ye olde Jerry Can, range anxiety stops being an issue
 
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Yes, the car stops with regen braking alone in stop and go. No it won't work for panic stops, though it does assist. Yes, it will stop without brakes, even at 70mph, provided you have enough space, if you don't, it still reduces the load on the brakes. The BMW i3 isn't even that strong of a regen braking, a lot of EVs let you control how strong the regen braking is with paddles behind the steering wheel.

Go watch a review of a Nissan Leaf or Ioniq 5 or even the i3, maybe you'll understand once you see it?

The i3's regen is 55KW, its motor is 125KW and does 0-60 in 6.9s. The regen is 44% of that acceleration. A Model 3 is 77KW, a Bolt ~70KW, a Porsche Taycan, 265KW
Let's see proof of your magical claims.

I notice neither you nor your source had any proof whatsoever of your ridiculous claims that brakes last forever on a 3300 lb. car.

Let's see it do those 0-60 times after the batteries are a few years old.
 
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If I'm fighting a terminator, in a standard film-scene car chase, and I scrape it's metal face along the road - does that mean it'll charge up and be stronger. Damn it. I've been practicing that move for years. Need to find a new approach.
 
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If I'm fighting a terminator, in a standard film-scene car chase, and I scrape it's metal face along the road - does that mean it'll charge up and be stronger. Damn it. I've been practicing that move for years. Need to find a new approach.
Aren't Terminators nuclear or something similar? *shrugs*
 
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Wow a sample size of one, how convincing, reported by one guy and not even verified. I call shens. 3300 lbs going 70 mph. isn't going to be stopped by regenerative braking. Let's see you get away with not using brakes in stop-and-go traffic.
Could you be anymore of a M*R*N? Regen braking is standard on EV.
 
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I'm wondering about losses for a powered but unused road.
 

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Stay on topic!
You are in the "Science & Technology" forum... not the "Lounge"

Also, Stop the Insults.
And, remember the Guidelines when posting.
 
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Let's see proof of your magical claims.

I notice neither you nor your source had any proof whatsoever of your ridiculous claims that brakes last forever on a 3300 lb. car.

Let's see it do those 0-60 times after the batteries are a few years old.
If you want to learn about EVs, there are many better resources than me. Literally ANY review on an EV. It's best to learn about a topic before calling a known fact and feature of something impossible and fake. Trucks, manual cars, can use engine braking to slow down for example Technology is advancing, friction braking is very inefficient, the energy goes away by heat. Most electricity production in the world uses an electric motor and magnetic field turbine things. This is simply science and indeed exists. Quebec is powered 99% Hydro power, which uses the same concept as well.

As Bill Nye says, it's not magic, it's science!:


This concrete charging thing probably uses induction. An induction stovetop transfers energy to the pan magnetically and doesn't heat the surface of the stovetop. You can put a paper towel and a silicone mat on top of the stovetop and cook without any problem, the only heat the stovetop will get is from the pan heating up the glass under it.

If you don't understand after looking at reviews and learning about EVs, I can try to find you ressources to help you understand if you wish, just shoot me a private message
 
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I still think rewarding and focusing on EV only is a mistake policy wise, we should have had more tax deductions for hybrids too not just EV centric... there are hybrid cars now (Hyundai Ioniq) that get 60 mpg... I mean... sorry but that is awesome progress... if they had more focus and RnD funding as EV gets we might be up to 70 mpg by now though I admit that's probably its limits... still... that's damn impressive even the 60.
Seriously? They were already able to make vehicle prototypes that are capable of over 100+ mpg like 15 years ago, and that was without electric. Gasoline vehicles can be made to get thrice or more the mpg they're still getting today, but they just don't want to manufacture them because of the big oil companies.

Ugh no shit? But ugh some of you can keep being the petrol heads while states and countries are doing full switchovers. In some countries all vehicles will be forced to be emissions free by 2050 like the UK from what I last read. And let's not even bother mentioning California lol. Personally I'm going to restore my old Porsche Turbo and drive the shit out of it before it gets outlawed. Enjoy petrol while it lasts lol.

Its just way too inconvenient at this time and would make more sense for vehicles that have static routes. If you want to combat "climate change", your gripe is with the oil companies and their desire to "sell moar oil", "make moar money".
 

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Seriously? They were already able to make vehicle prototypes that are capable of over 100+ mpg like 15 years ago, and that was without electric. Gasoline vehicles can be made to get thrice or more the mpg they're still getting today, but they just don't want to manufacture them because of the big oil companies.


Its just way too inconvenient at this time and would make more sense for vehicles that have static routes. If you want to combat "climate change", your gripe is with the oil companies and their desire to "sell moar oil", "make moar money".

interesting. didn't know that.

pretty sad really. cause EV is nice and all but if you want to go on a long trip cross country, having to stop to charge for 2-5 hours to get to full, especially if you have kids with you is going to be really frustrating. 300-400 mile range really isn't enough for family vacations.

shame the Dem's just don't get. subsidizing or offering tax incentives for 60-100 mpg hybrids would have been the better move imo (but they would have to meet that requirement for the tax incentive). and EV's would still get subsidies for those who wanted them to, EV's make a lot of sense for city dwellers, but not all of us want to be confided to a 300 mile radius and have to wait 3-5 hours for charging to move another 300 miles.

luckily for me I will be buying my first ever new car in a few months most likely if work keeps going well. and I intend to get a hybrid, so by the time these laws come into play meh i'll be sitting good for 20-30 years as long as I take care of it, which I intend to do.
 
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interesting. didn't know that.

pretty sad really. cause EV is nice and all but if you want to go on a long trip cross country, having to stop to charge for 2-5 hours to get to full, especially if you have kids with you is going to be really frustrating. 300-400 mile range really isn't enough for family vacations.

shame the Dem's just don't get. subsidizing or offering tax incentives for 60-100 mpg hybrids would have been the better move imo (but they would have to meet that requirement for the tax incentive). and EV's would still get subsidies for those who wanted them to, EV's make a lot of sense for city dwellers, but not all of us want to be confided to a 300 mile radius and have to wait 3-5 hours for charging to move another 300 miles.

luckily for me I will be buying my first ever new car in a few months most likely if work keeps going well. and I intend to get a hybrid, so by the time these laws come into play meh i'll be sitting good for 20-30 years as long as I take care of it, which I intend to do.
If you wanna go on a long trip across the country... use a plane, a train, or a rental.

EV's are meant to be for the constant small trips.
 
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pretty sad really. cause EV is nice and all but if you want to go on a long trip cross country, having to stop to charge for 2-5 hours to get to full, especially if you have kids with you is going to be really frustrating. 300-400 mile range really isn't enough for family vacations.
But you'll have a hard time to find a slower Level 2 charger. Next to Interstates you'll get Level 3 Fast Charging. Modern EVs charge at 150~350KW, see my earlier post. With a 269 mile range EV, you'll have to stop twice for an 11 hour drive. During those 20 minute stops, you can go to the bathroom, buy a coffee etc, unlike when you're at the gas pump sitting there for 4-5 minutes.

I'm going to to do some maths for myself to see how much of a hassle charging is during a roadtrip. Something like the Ioniq 5 will gain about 68 miles in 5 minutes (~25%) which is roughly the time to fill up a gas car; for 188 miles it's 18 minutes (~70%). With a range of 269 miles, you might do 230 miles, assuming 69 mph average (nice), your first stop is at the earliest is 3h20m later. Your second stop would be about 2h40 later at least. So in a 9.5-11 hour 600 mile roadtrip, you have to stop twice. You can go from Nice, France, through Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia and Croatia to get to Bosnia. You gotta pee once every 3 countries, kinda sounds doable, actually you probably should give yourself a break at least those two times if you want to drive responsibly

Because the consumer has this huge irrational range anxiety, batteries on today's EVs are huge and do great on longer trips as well, with the benefits like having Climate control if you stop for a nap (or keep your gas car running I guess), costing 5-8x less than a gas car etc. My preference is for EVs with a 30-50KW battery instead of 80-100KW since I don't need the range, my car isn't really built for cross country roadtrips similar to other city cars, with a good one pedal system, tight turning circle, and small. Another car I like a lot is the Honda E for example. EVs are good for roadtrips, but they EXCEL in the city and are just so much better than gas cars in that setting. I never really get to 600 miles in my roadtrips, and I'd stop every 150-200 miles even when I drove a gas car
 

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But you'll have a hard time to find a slower Level 2 charger. Next to Interstates you'll get Level 3 Fast Charging. Modern EVs charge at 150~350KW, see my earlier post. With a 269 mile range EV, you'll have to stop twice for an 11 hour drive. During those 20 minute stops, you can go to the bathroom, buy a coffee etc, unlike when you're at the gas pump sitting there for 4-5 minutes.

when we implement super fast rapid charging to the max on smartphones, it makes the lithium battery need to be replaced more quickly, much more quickly actually. Linus from LinusTechTips even mentioned he turns off fast charging for his phone for this very reason.

So, if we do this ultra fast charging, does that mean we will be replacing the batteries in the EV every 3-5 years instead of the promised 7-10 year lifespan? That's a lot of natural resources / e-waste / the miners who get the battery resources from the actual mines needing to increase production, etc...

Doesn't seem like EV is all that climate friendly unless the battery can last at least 10 years imo. It needs to make up for its sourcing carbon output, then have net gains on top of that, to beat carbon emissions.

If you wanna go on a long trip across the country... use a plane, a train, or a rental.

EV's are meant to be for the constant small trips.

No way. I intend to do camping at all the national parks someday, and travel with a hybrid. Airplanes and trains and rentals and air bnb or hotels are way way more expensive than what I plan to do.
 
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when we implement super fast rapid charging to the max on smartphones, it makes the lithium battery need to be replaced more quickly, much more quickly actually. Linus from LinusTechTips even mentioned he turns off fast charging for his phone for this very reason.

So, if we do this ultra fast charging, does that mean we will be replacing the batteries in the EV every 3-5 years instead of the promised 7-10 year lifespan? That's a lot of natural resources / e-waste / the miners who get the battery resources from the actual mines needing to increase production, etc...

Doesn't seem like EV is all that climate friendly unless the battery can last at least 10 years imo. It needs to make up for its sourcing carbon output, then have net gains on top of that, to beat carbon emissions.



No way. I intend to do camping at all the national parks someday, and travel with a hybrid. Airplanes and trains and rentals and air bnb or hotels are way way more expensive than what I plan to do.
Excessive use of public Level 3 DC Fast Charging stations (they can bring an EV up to 80 percent of its capacity in as little as 30 minutes) can also take a toll on a battery’s long-term performance. That’s because the faster an electric car is charged, the hotter it becomes and, again, that’s not battery friendly. However, a study conducted by the Idaho National Laboratory concluded that the effect isn’t particularly pronounced. The INL tested two pairs of identical 2012 Nissan Leaf models, with one set using 240-volt Level 2 home charging and the other exclusively relying on DC Fast Charging public units. After each was driven 50,000 miles, the difference between the Level 2 and Level 3 vehicles’ diminished battery capacities amounted to just four percent.
Source

It can depend on your battery chemistry, but in general, there are a few factors that determine the life-cycle of the battery. Smartphones and laptops have poor battery life since they use chemistries that can hold more capacity and that are physically smaller at the expense of battery life, don't have a cooling system to manage heat which is an even bigger issue because of constraint of space, and leave very little buffers.

First, most EVs have a cooling system for the battery, Tesla's cooling system is like a lasagna of batteries and metal plates where the refrigerant passes, which allows them to cool their batteries faster and more precisely, hence their faster charging speeds. Second is how much you charge and discharge in the extreme top and bottom state of charge, ie 0-10% and 90-100%. EVs have large battery buffers and never completely charge or discharge. Similar to SSDs, having a larger capacity multiplies the life of the battery proportionally. To add to that, when we talk about Life cycles of a battery, we mean how long does the battery take until you lose 20% of your capacity. On a 400 mile EV, that's when your car ends up with "only" 320 miles, so if you have an oversized battery, you can use your battery for a lot longer. Taking into account all that, batteries in EVs fast charging will not impact the battery life cycle significantly.

An iPhone is rated for 500 cycles, and average use is probably something like 80% per 24 hours. This means the life of the battery would be ~19 months. EV battery rated 1000~3000 cycles. For our 269 mile Ioniq 5 with ~75KWh and 12 000 miles per year, it would be 12.2% per 24 hours, so life would be 22~57 years. If fast charging kills the battery 3x faster instead of the above saying 1.04, you'd get 7-19 years of life still. The promised 7~9 years isn't a promise, it's a 8 year/100000 mile warranty. If they cover for free a replacement battery if yours loses 20% range, you can bet the lifespan is much greater than that.
 

Space Lynx

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An iPhone is rated for 500 cycles, and average use is probably something like 80% per 24 hours. This means the life of the battery would be ~19 months. EV battery rated 1000~3000 cycles. For our 269 mile Ioniq 5 with ~75KWh and 12 000 miles per year, it would be 12.2% per 24 hours, so life would be 22~57 years. If fast charging kills the battery 3x faster instead of the above saying 1.04, you'd get 7-19 years of life still. The promised 7~9 years isn't a promise, it's a 8 year/100000 mile warranty. If they cover for free a replacement battery if yours loses 20% range, you can bet the lifespan is much greater than that.

this is very interesting. my last question for battery is simple then, when phone is at say 60% battery and i charge it up to top it off, I know you're not supposed to do that... shortens life again

so would that shorten life of EV battery cause 40% charge still count as one cycle? or would i need to be careful, and make sure i charge when only its almost empty?
 
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this is very interesting. my last question for battery is simple then, when phone is at say 60% battery and i charge it up to top it off, I know you're not supposed to do that... shortens life again

so would that shorten life of EV battery cause 40% charge still count as one cycle? or would i need to be careful, and make sure i charge when only its almost empty?
40% counts as 0.4 cycles actually. If you have something that's always plugged in, or not used for a long time, keeping the battery at 60% is ideal.

You can absolutely charge your phone without a problem when it's at 60%. To lengthen its life, you just have to avoid the extremes, try not to let it dip below 10%, and stop charging it once it's at 80-90%. Avoid charging while gaming, avoid high temperatures like near the windshield on a hot day. You don't have to follow these rules religiously, just the more you do them, the longer the battery will last
 

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Modern phones cheat that system so 0% is really 5%, and 100% is only 90%

they already solve these issues internally... like how fast charge splits the battery into 2 (9V quick charging and 4.5V normal? gee i wonder how they make that work) and quick charge only works at low percentages when the strain is lower, then slows down to regular charging later

hell, pixel phones deliberately trickle charge overnight with a goal of reaching 99% for your morning alarm... these battery flaws and workarounds are well known by now
 
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Yes, the car stops with regen braking alone in stop and go. No it won't work for panic stops, though it does assist. Yes, it will stop without brakes, even at 70mph, provided you have enough space, if you don't, it still reduces the load on the brakes. The BMW i3 isn't even that strong of a regen braking, a lot of EVs let you control how strong the regen braking is with paddles behind the steering wheel.

Go watch a review of a Nissan Leaf or Ioniq 5 or even the i3, maybe you'll understand once you see it?

The i3's regen is 55KW, its motor is 125KW and does 0-60 in 6.9s. The regen is 44% of that acceleration. A Model 3 is 77KW, a Bolt ~70KW, a Porsche Taycan, 265KW
It'll stop without brakes at 70MPH. PROVE IT.
 
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Wow a sample size of one, how convincing, reported by one guy and not even verified. I call shens. 3300 lbs going 70 mph. isn't going to be stopped by regenerative braking. Let's see you get away with not using brakes in stop-and-go traffic.
I thought regenerative braking was a well established tech.

Oh wait, it is.

It'll stop without brakes at 70MPH. PROVE IT.
Regenerative braking IS brakes. It's effectively contactless though, using motors like generators. So no wear. If you need proof I'd suggest actually using the available tech, it's been on the market since like, 2000.

And as he said, it's not for panic stops.
 
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If you want to learn about EVs, there are many better resources than me. Literally ANY review on an EV. It's best to learn about a topic before calling a known fact and feature of something impossible and fake. Trucks, manual cars, can use engine braking to slow down for example Technology is advancing, friction braking is very inefficient, the energy goes away by heat. Most electricity production in the world uses an electric motor and magnetic field turbine things. This is simply science and indeed exists. Quebec is powered 99% Hydro power, which uses the same concept as well.

As Bill Nye says, it's not magic, it's science!:


This concrete charging thing probably uses induction. An induction stovetop transfers energy to the pan magnetically and doesn't heat the surface of the stovetop. You can put a paper towel and a silicone mat on top of the stovetop and cook without any problem, the only heat the stovetop will get is from the pan heating up the glass under it.

If you don't understand after looking at reviews and learning about EVs, I can try to find you ressources to help you understand if you wish, just shoot me a private message

Let's see, a 3300lb vehicle traveling at 70mph has kinetic energy of 732,858.59 joules, a watt is a joule/sec

Let's see proof your regenerative braking system can dissipate that many joules of energy in say, 10 secs. Go ahead, I'll wait...
 
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730 KJ, so we need 73 KW (for 10 seconds), which is about the regenerative power claimed above.

The i3's regen is 55KW, its motor is 125KW and does 0-60 in 6.9s. The regen is 44% of that acceleration. A Model 3 is 77KW, a Bolt ~70KW, a Porsche Taycan, 265KW
 
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I really like EV's because as Dutchies we don't really have to make that many miles (kilometers :p), they're perfect for where I live. The only thing I'd like is for the car to be offline. I intensely dislike a lot of these cars simply because they rely on firmware and the "internet" Waaaay too much. Imagine an APT pushing firmware that's extremely malicious and disabling your car while driving. How about ransomwaring your vehicle with kids in it? It isn't some doomsday scenario. Look at what is happening in the real world. If there is any kind of possible financial gain, it will be exploited in the worst way possible. Especially with computers connected to the internet. Now I'm really not a car person, are there any vehicles that don't overly rely on an internet connection?
 
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