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Retailers think that Steam is killing PC market

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#51
I love STEAM. Retailers need to get over it and compete or be swallowed up.
 

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#52
STEAM:
Don't have to leave the house...
Automatic Updates...
Can easily backup games...
Great prices (on their sales at least)...

What's not to like?
 

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#53
Hardly. Video game retailers within 2hrs of where I live have barely any PC games. And if they do, it's either flooded with The Sims, SC2 or CoD, with no alternatives.
Retailers are doing this to themselves, they offer us a small handful of games at outrageous prices ($100+). And sure you can order in games, but that takes a few days minimum if not a week; even ADSL1 can download games faster than that.

Steam on the other hand, has how many games? A couple thousand? All easily browsable and purchasable, even with links to a demo in a lot of cases. Then you've got the overlay with Friends, so you can talk to people who aren't in your current game, and so you can talk to said people without having to even be ingame. And they've got sales EVERY WEEK, more often than not on big name titles or bundles.


I can see why retailers are QQing. They should stick to consoles, since that's the direction they're taking anyway.
You misunderstood what I was saying. I'm asking if the scenario I painted for the odd pricing we see sounds reasonable to others. It's more of a rhetorical question, as it is a reasonable scenario. Your point actually reinforces what I said! :)
 
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#54
This is just the last gasps of a dying business. Steam is not killing the PC market; same as others here, I have spent much more on games thanks to Steam than anything else. With a fiance that isn't too fond of my gaming habits sometimes, being able to click a few buttons and get a game downloaded in an hour or so is much easier for me than justifying the shelf space being taken up by another game.
I think I have 50+ games on Steam & EADM and just 5 on physical media.

Regarding Steam's hard-drive Nazism: I think the Steam software will mature and become more flexible over time, allowing you to store games where you want. They are probably aware of all of these types of concerns and are coding solutions for them as we speak - but it will be a matter of making sure the platform is stable first and foremost.
 

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#55
Apparently you can find hacked Steam games on The Pirate Bay and similar sites that don't need the Steam client. However, they're missing all the good stuff from a legitimate copy, such as updates, online play and community features.

So much for claims that DRM is ineffective, especially Steam DRM. :ohwell:
It's a hacked game, thats all, anything can be hacked when you don't allow it to connect to the internet to verify anything, but don't expect to play multiplayer on it.
 
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#56
I decided to look at some users comments about pricing for games with how some games from Steam can be cheaper or more expensive than games in retail stores.

The overall fact is older games are generally cheaper in retail stores than it is on Steam and newer games are usually cheaper on Steam than it is in retail stores. The main problem here is Steam doesn't usually decrease the price of individual games over a long period of time and would only offer them at a cheaper price during their sales or if they are in bundles which of course is something that Steam would have to improve on to be completely better than retail stores.

The most obvious example of a game being cheaper in retail store than Steam would be Assassin's Creed - Director's Cut; with the game legit I can buy it for £5 in a retail store where with Steam (if I'm not mistaken) charges around £20 for it.

As for an example of a new game being cheaper in Steam than a retail store at standard pricing the only price differences I've seen is the game being around £5 or £10 cheaper than the retail store which isn't much in terms of money, but it's real value would come from the fact that the game is registered into your profile's library where you can always re-download it when switching computers and it is updated to the latest version which is more useful for playing older games which could only be fully updated by downloading the patch(s) and applying it yourself or new games which still follow the older game's way of updating with applying patches.
 
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#57
I decided to look at some users comments about pricing for games with how some games from Steam can be cheaper or more expensive than games in retail stores.

The overall fact is older games are generally cheaper in retail stores than it is on Steam and newer games are usually cheaper on Steam than it is in retail stores. The main problem here is Steam doesn't usually decrease the price of individual games over a long period of time and would only offer them at a cheaper price during their sales or if they are in bundles which of course is something that Steam would have to improve on to be completely better than retail stores.

The most obvious example of a game being cheaper in retail store than Steam would be Assassin's Creed - Director's Cut; with the game legit I can buy it for £5 in a retail store where with Steam (if I'm not mistaken) charges around £20 for it.

As for an example of a new game being cheaper in Steam than a retail store at standard pricing the only price differences I've seen is the game being around £5 or £10 cheaper than the retail store which isn't much in terms of money, but it's real value would come from the fact that the game is registered into your profile's library where you can always re-download it when switching computers and it is updated to the latest version which is more useful for playing older games which could only be fully updated by downloading the patch(s) and applying it yourself or new games which still follow the older game's way of updating with applying patches.
I paid 8 US dollars for Assassins Creed: DC. on Steam. I also bought every iD game ever made for 50 bucks off of Steam. Do that in a retail store ;)

FYI Steam does reduce prices all the time. Just look at BC2. Its all up to the developer.

Weekend deals FTW!
 
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#58
@TheMailMan78

Unfortunately that is what I saw on my Steam only yesterday with Assassin's Creed - Director's Cut through doing a quick research to see whether it was worth having all of the Assassin's Creed games on Steam or just to stick with the hard copies I already have which I don't have any problems with (seeing as they both update themselves through their own version updater).

I guess I will hope for the time being that this isn't something which is location related as it wouldn't appear good to me if people in the US can get the same game on Steam at a considerably cheaper price. :(

I guess I will have to take your point with the developers though as it is certainly a fact that if the developers get a lot of sales on a game they would usually then sell it for less over a period of time when their sales of the game start to decrease.

As for bundles that is where Steam kills the retail stores, especially if you look at the Valve pack which includes the counter strike releases along with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2.
 
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#59
imo steam is saving the pc game industry there are several old games I would have pirated if steam didn't offer them for 9.95$ budlles with 5 games in the series. At 2$ a pop it wasn't worth the effort to pirate.

plus some of my older discs have already stopped reading. If I get a game on steam I can always play it, no need to worry about scratched discs. Also if i go to a lan and don't have a paticular game installed and I only have it on disc, I'm screwed. If I have it on steam it's a 10 minute download.
 
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#60
STEAM:
Don't have to leave the house...
Automatic Updates...
Can easily backup games...
Great prices (on their sales at least)...

What's not to like?
Having bought from them like 20 games and getting VAC banned from 5-6 because you joined some MW2 server that is modded but you didn't knew , go on some steam forums about vac bans and you will be shocked what a vicious circle you will end up in if you get involved with steam games that use VAC2 , they hand out bans now for some of the stupidest things.
I hear storyes about people who didn't touched a thing in their HDD and got banned and unbanned by steam ( lucky ones ) , a simple virus that modifies exe files can get you banned and render half your games not playbale online , a skin that is not approved by them can get you banned.
I played TF2 for about 2 years no problem , i installed a new windows wich was a bit questionably ( "fixed" one ) and i think it had a key logger in it , got my account stolen and after i solved the problem and got it back it was vac banned , read the vac2 shit and i understood i coudln't do antyhing to solve my problem , this rendered a long list of games unplayabale online , and this is how i ditched steam.
They've built a system wich is very profitable for them and for the developers , not only because the obvious you can get them cheaper and faster online , but because at some point they can ban your paid game and if you like that game you will buy it again , it's a joke running around that MW2 still sells welll even now because of how many kids get banned and buy the game again and again.
I see some lawsuits coming to steam because more and more people claim they were banned for no reason and VAC2 offers no proof of what you did , they convict you of crimes( cheating ) but they don't tell you the crimes , they leave you wondering if the kid played with cheats on your account , maybe someone stoled your account , maybe some virus , maybe maybe.... and this makes some people say forget it , maybe it is my fault , i'll buy it again.
 
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#61
Having bought from them like 20 games and getting VAC banned from 5-6 because you joined some MW2 server that is modded but you didn't knew , go on some steam forums about vac bans and you will be shocked what a vicious circle you will end up in if you get involved with steam games that use VAC2 , they hand out bans now for some of the stupidest things.
I hear storyes about people who didn't touched a thing in their HDD and got banned and unbanned by steam ( lucky ones ) , a simple virus that modifies exe files can get you banned and render half your games not playbale online , a skin that is not approved by them can get you banned.
I played TF2 for about 2 years no problem , i installed a new windows wich was a bit questionably ( "fixed" one ) and i think it had a key logger in it , got my account stolen and after i solved the problem and got it back it was vac banned , read the vac2 shit and i understood i coudln't do antyhing to solve my problem , this rendered a long list of games unplayabale online , and this is how i ditched steam.
They've built a system wich is very profitable for them and for the developers , not only because the obvious you can get them cheaper and faster online , but because at some point they can ban your paid game and if you like that game you will buy it again , it's a joke running around that MW2 still sells welll even now because of how many kids get banned and buy the game again and again.
I see some lawsuits coming to steam because more and more people claim they were banned for no reason and VAC2 offers no proof of what you did , they convict you of crimes( cheating ) but they don't tell you the crimes , they leave you wondering if the kid played with cheats on your account , maybe someone stoled your account , maybe some virus , maybe maybe.... and this makes some people say forget it , maybe it is my fault , i'll buy it again.
You used a bootleg copy of windows. Nothing to see here. Case closed. Move along.
 
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#62
actually the steam games still get updates to and new exe's after every patch steam is just as fail in that regard as well it dosent stop squat really

steam excells at giving people what they do want tho aka achievements and all that bullcrap

me steam is just a tool i hate it i prefer physical copy but i cant refuse steams pricing etc. I can say that some games that are on steam and can be bought without needed steam I will always take the non steam version as a gamer who likes mods i hate the fact that steam fucks up alot of mods on some games. I also dislike the fact i cant specify where to put my games they all go to a generic steam folder. Some games Id prefer to have on a different HDD but cant do that with steam. Theres draw backs and in general i still prefer physical Disk, but even i cant deny digital is the way things are going to go and steam does better then the rest so i cant really complain in that sense. Altho i do like Impulse....
I can argue for the HDD deal. I have a 150GB Velociraptor as my main drive, and it's getting quite full. It would be nice if I could redirect some games to my storage drive.
1)i've never had steam screw up my mods. if you leave auto-update on , yeah it can happen - so turn it off. if you are modding chances are you don't want the updates anyway , and any game can screw up mods when updating - steam or not.

2)you can install any game wherever you want. google mklink, aka symbolic link
 
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#63
Steam is great, don't get me wrong. But there's something I'm pretty pissed off though, how can a game which doesn't come with a box cost the same/more on steam than whats sitting on shelves? Bearing in mind they didn't pay shipping/gas or whatever there is to it.
 

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#64
Steam has its pros and cons. but i personally prefer to be able to buy and install a game off a disc then wait upto 3-6hrs for a 11Gb game to download (go figure - MW2) and it infuriates me to no end when steam choses to download the game files online rather then install off the disc first then grab whatever updates it needs.

steam always has lots of deals going - but theres a 'steam deals' thread here at TPU here where certain deals are only available to US players and Euro/UK players have to pay the full amount - so theres no discount for us (most of you have already told me to jump country or QQ moar) which i think is f**king retarded on such a platform - everyone uses the same steam program - why not make the discounts/deals eligible for EVERYONE even those in Europe/UK.

ontop of that - steam doesnt always offer the best value for new games - often selling games at full RRP (£44.99) on day of release unlike Game or Gamestation which from my observation has managed to undercut steam by almost £10 or more almost 99% of the time - so if i want a new game on day of release - i go to Game or Gamestation.

steam will kick the price down eventually but not until a few weeks or months after the initial rush probably as part of a 'pack deal' if its a sequel e.g. battlefield pack, CoD pack.

as for it killing the market - it depends on how lazy people are. and people are very lazy but I go where i can get the best value and it costs me nothing to cycle into town where there are a fair few shops selling games open.

So no - steam is not killing the market - their only being discriminitory by not making deals/discounts available to everyone reguardless of what region of the world they are from. thats my only real gripe.

otherwise i did by killingfloor for £3 and it is most excellent.

-------

theres a lot to bitch about steam. but it works needless to say.
 
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#65
Steam is convenient, well run for the most part and basically the only form of DRM that I'm willing to put up with.

Use of overly stringent DRM and more emphasis on consoles are hurting the pc gaming industry. The shops didn't suddenly stop stocking physical copies of games: the same developers who are wingeing about Steam stopped producing physical copies, focusing their efforts on X-Box and PlayStation titles, which are easier for them to produce, whilst referring to rampant piracy figures as an attempt to justify their increasing neglect of the pc gamer.

My only complaint with regards to Steam is that Valve allows other companies to use third-party DRM, but at least they advertise this fact, albeit in a manner that is sometimes not as conspicuous as I would like.

Moreover, I don't think that pc gaming is as unhealthy as some people would have us believe: certainly some of the "big names" may be making a sudden exit in the future, but on the basis of their recent offerings, that may not be such a bad thing and the industry will adapt and evolve without their contribution. In any event, even if we accept that the pc gaming industry could be healthier, I fail to see how Steam is in any way exacerbating this situation.
 
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#66
retailers are also forgetting etailers like newegg.com. while I don't necessarily go straight there for a game purchase I will buiy games form them when i get new hardware from them. It's a "look at how cool this new game looks on my new rig" thing.
 
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#67
i've never had steam screw up my mods.
What kind of mods are we talking? Like a game that has mod support built in? I've found mods with games that aren't designed to be modded tend not to work with steam versions because the files they rely on are different from retail. It might be better now that steam is so popular as modders might make two versions of their mods... but I know in the past at least it was a major detractor for steam.
 
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#68
What kind of mods are we talking? Like a game that has mod support built in? I've found mods with games that aren't designed to be modded tend not to work with steam versions because the files they rely on are different from retail. It might be better now that steam is so popular as modders might make two versions of their mods... but I know in the past at least it was a major detractor for steam.
ahh i see, yes in the case that they depend on retail versions they don't work. i was referring to basically any other mod that doesn't require the retail version for whatever reason.
 

Kreij

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#69
In the near future you will only be able to get software of any kind through digital downloads including console titles and application software. That's just the way it will be.
Whether you love it or hate it makes no difference.

I can't find a retail copy of GPU-Z anywhere. Had to download it. ;)
 
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#70
Steam is great, don't get me wrong. But there's something I'm pretty pissed off though, how can a game which doesn't come with a box cost the same/more on steam than whats sitting on shelves? Bearing in mind they didn't pay shipping/gas or whatever there is to it.
Because the big boys (Walmart, Gamespot, etc) wouldn't allow it to be any other way. If a company like Activision said "hey were going to sell COD for $10 less on Steam because the cost to produce and move the product is non-existant". Those companies would turn around and say, "don't expect your games to have a spot on our shelves."
 

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#71
and yes thats what i ment digibucc theres alot of games that have mods but dont really have mod support where if you own the steam version and not retail your screwed same goes for community patches when developers neglect the game in some cases steam results in being burdened by a game that never gets an update and you cant get community updates.
 
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#72
Why should I spend my hard earned money in a shop that has 5 rows of both PS3 and 360 games and a single solitary line of pc games? they can suck my balls, they sold out pc gamers long ago, now there whining we don't buy from them :nutkick:
 
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#73
Why should I spend my hard earned money in a shop that has 5 rows of both PS3 and 360 games and a single solitary line of pc games? they can suck my balls, they sold out pc gamers long ago, now there whining we don't buy from them :nutkick:
the story is more about other digital distributors, the way i see it being upset that people prefer Steam over them, and want to force publishers to release a "steam free" version for other digital distributors, saying nothing about boxed copies.

regardless, i agree 100% with your statement.
 

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#74
So lets say i have 100 plus games on my hard drive from Steam web site.
And steam put D.R.M in the games.
If my hard drive dies on me and craps out can i not get my games back just
By downloading them again from Steam.?
I don,t use Steam so its all new two me this
 

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#75
Steam is great, don't get me wrong. But there's something I'm pretty pissed off though, how can a game which doesn't come with a box cost the same/more on steam than whats sitting on shelves? Bearing in mind they didn't pay shipping/gas or whatever there is to it.
Yeah, that pisses me off too and I think my previous post answers your question nicely:

I have to agree with the other posters here that Steam isn't killing the PC market and the bricks and mortar stores don't like it because they're cut out of the loop. They're effectively obsolete and out of business, so there's no way they'll ever go for this.

What I don't understand, is why you get games released on a physical DVD that require Steam activation, such Fallout: New Vegas. Other than someone that wants to have the box to put on the shelf (like me!) there's no purpose to it other than to keep the B&M stores in business.

I know people use the argument that it saves on download times, but I don't think that this is a compelling argument any more. You still have to significantly update the game after installing it from DVD and most people today have reasonably quick broadband connections. Even a lowly 1 or 2Mb service would do.

The only reason I can find at all, is that the direct from Steam price has a habit of being higher than getting the DVD copy, which is nuts and somewhat profiteering on Steam's part. In the case of Fallout: New Vegas, it's currently £30 from Steam and £24 from Amazon. :wtf: I've looked up a few other games and in each case, they're cheaper to get the DVD.

Ok, now I think about it as I write this post, I believe I know why. If Steam simply priced those games at reasonable prices and cheaper than the DVD copy, nobody would by the DVD copy and the stores would go out of business.

By pricing it higher, Steam get to charge a premium for the convenience of not having to run out or order the DVD online and have to wait. The stores then charge for the DVD copy at a more reasonable price, which people will buy if they want to save the money and are prepared to wait or drive down to the store. And the other reason why Steam is happy, is because they get a cut of this revenue, too.

Sound reasonable? :)