Riding the Crypto wave

[Papahyooie]

Of course, IF you have the capital to buy in large enough amounts, buying is the better way. If you buy 1 BTC, you'll make more over the month than a small time miner will. But at a cost of $0 to start mining (using already owned graphics cards, as many small time miners do) it's easy to *get* that capital in BTC as long as you do it smartly. On top of that, a miner has a constant stream of incoming BTC, whereas a one-time buy may result in net dollars, it will not result in net BTC. If you buy, you'll always have the same number of BTC, until you decide to invest more. A miner is constantly gaining BTC, AND gaining dollar value as the value increases. On top of that, once you've reached ROI for your hardware you no longer have any risk. A buyer will always be risking his capital. In the odd event that BTC becomes worthless, a buyer has lost everything. Once a miner reaches ROI, (as long as he retains the value of his equipment by converting the cash value back to dollars) he literally has zero risk.

Mining is plenty legitimate in the long haul.

 

[trog100]

Well trog you could have for example bought 1 btc, but by the time your machine earns the equivalent amount you could have just bought outright, at least your machine will still be earning a little bit more every day... It's the better investment in the long term.

nah money for money lets say in my case 4 grand to build a half decent mining machine as opposed to 4 grand to buy just one bitcoin.. three months back when i started 4 grand would have bought one whole bitcoin..

the 4 grand for one bitcoin would now be worth 10500 a nice profit of 65000..

my mining has produced just over 3000 dollars or 0.3000 bitcoin.. not bad but far short of one whole bitcoin at 10500..

the thing is the more crypto you own the more you make as it goes up... hindsight is a wonderful thing but i had to learn the hard way..

okay if crpto wasnt going up so f-cking fast mining would be okay.. but as it is its costing money waiting for the tiny mined amounts to grow large enough to be worth owning..

all i would say is if people own the gear set it to mining otherwise if you like crypto just buy some.. dont waste money on mining hardware.. like i did..

my (mined) 1/3 of a bitcoin is now big enough to net me 300 dollars for every 1000 dollars bitcoin goes up.. i just bought some litecoin and etherium just the get me a bit more.. i think they will all keep going up together.. my total outlay is around £6000.. my crypto stash is now about £5000.. if crypto keeps going up as it has been doing the £5000 should keep growing nicely.. he he

trog

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

You both have good points but im in the middle , I should have bought one at £1500 quid and about now spent 3000 on mining gear to recoup its (the mining gear)cost ,ie back to one coin or more then rinse and repeat until minings pointless by which point I might have 1.5-2 or more and a boat load of tat to fold with and hopefully the millions to pay the leccy

Recently got me a 120L fishtank for some mining dunked strangeness but oil costs apparently so im saving tut

 

[trog100]

Of course, IF you have the capital to buy in large enough amounts, buying is the better way. If you buy 1 BTC, you'll make more over the month than a small time miner will. But at a cost of $0 to start mining (using already owned graphics cards, as many small time miners do) it's easy to *get* that capital in BTC as long as you do it smartly. On top of that, a miner has a constant stream of incoming BTC, whereas a one-time buy may result in net dollars, it will not result in net BTC. If you buy, you'll always have the same number of BTC, until you decide to invest more. A miner is constantly gaining BTC, AND gaining dollar value as the value increases. On top of that, once you've reached ROI for your hardware you no longer have any risk. A buyer will always be risking his capital. In the odd event that BTC becomes worthless, a buyer has lost everything. Once a miner reaches ROI, (as long as he retains the value of his equipment by converting the cash value back to dollars) he literally has zero risk.

Mining is plenty legitimate in the long haul.

at a cost of zero to start mining no money will be made.. this kind of thinking isnt valid.. mining hardware costs money.. running your nice gaming PC 24/7 dosnt come free ether.. the return will be less than 2 dollars per day for the average single card gaming type machine..

okay i think it costs money to make money.. i am maybe lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash i could chuck at mining gear or as i now know just buying some bitcoin..

dont get me wrong here my thinking is based on crypto continueing to keep going up.. i think at least for the next year it will do this.. by how much i dont know but it could be a lot..

i have given my own factual real life experience here.. people can and will do their own thing..

trog

 

[Papahyooie]

at a cost of zero to start mining no money will be made.. this kind of thinking isnt valid.. mining hardware costs money.. running your nice gaming PC 24/7 dosnt come free ether.. the return will be less than 2 dollars per day for the average single card gaming type machine..

okay i think it costs money to make money.. i am maybe lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash i could chuck at mining gear or as i now know just buying some bitcoin..

dont get me wrong here my thinking is based on crypto continueing to keep going up.. i think at least for the next year it will do this.. by how much i dont know but it could be a lot..

i have given my own factual real life experience here.. people can and will do their own thing..

trog

Sure, you're right that running a small operation won't make you rich. But that doesn't mean the BTC profit isn't "worth owning." A modest profit of $50 a week may mean nothing to you, especially after you've netted thousands of dollars from BTC's value growth. But so what if the return is less than 2 dollars per day? It's still a return. Obviously mining at a loss is folly. Just buy, and don't lose money. But profit is profit, whether it's 10 bucks a week or thousands. Just because you think it's small or maybe not worth the effort doesn't change the math.

I have a small farm with three graphics cards. Right now my best graphics card is a 980Ti... I've made enough from mining to buy a 1070... that's free money. You can scoff at it if you want, but it's now funding my hardware purchases. Whereas if I were just to buy bitcoin (which I have done so as well) I'd have to put the money up front. I have done this, I'm simply making the point that mining is absolutely viable. It obviously won't have returns like buying a few grand worth of BTC at $4000 a few months ago did. That goes without saying. But that doesn't mean mining is worthless. You said at a cost of zero to start mining, no money will be made. I beg to differ. I spent zero dollars on mining equipment, and now have over 400 bucks worth of bitcoin (from mining.) I make good money, but I'm not so rich as to turn my nose up at 400 bucks. If you are, good for you. But that doesn't at all mean that "this kind of thinking isn't valid."

 

[trog100]

firstly 2 dollars per day (a single card machines output) does not equate with 50 dollars per week.. and i am not scoffing at anything only your zero cost mining concept..

you say you are not poor.. well that means you are not stuck with zero cost mining.. you can afford to do it properly.. why not try it..

the bottom line is simple the more money you put in the more money you get out.. this applies to a mining or simply buying crypto..

trog

 

[Papahyooie]

firstly 2 dollars per day (a single card machines output) does not equate with 50 dollars per week.. and i am not scoffing at anything only your zero cost mining concept..

you say you are not poor.. well that means you are not stuck with zero cost mining.. you can afford to do it properly.. why not try it..

the bottom line is simple the more money you put in the more money you get out.. this applies to a mining or simply buying crypto..

trog

I never said two dollars a day equals fifty a week... Fifty was simply a made-up number for conversational purposes...

Secondly, I never said I only mined. I do have cash invested as well. But some other people might not, or might not be able to do so, but have some capable hardware lying around.

I agree that the more money you put in, the more money you get out. But you're saying that logic precludes mining, and that is simply not the case.

You can scoff at whatever you like, but the fact is I spent zero dollars on mining hardware (as my mining hardware is made up of unused graphics cards) and through simply mining (not including money I've made from cash investment) I have enough profit to buy a new graphics card. Think whatever you like, but a new graphics card is a new graphics card. And money is money, whether it's tens or thousands. Your assertion that mining is profitless simply isn't true, and neither is your assertion that the thinking behind mining isn't valid.

Think what you want, but my future free 1080 Ti says you're wrong...

 

[P4-630]

Laszlo Hanyecz (laszlo) made the first documented purchase of a good with bitcoin when he bought two Domino's pizzas from jercos for 10,000 BTC.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Laszlo_Hanyecz

Wow!! That's very expensive pizza nowadays....

 

[phill]

I agree Hat, I think that even with the amount BTC grows most days or just stays it's ground, it's definitely going upwards so as long as it takes to make one when you mine it, at least it will eventually be worth more than it started out

Apologises, not so graceful in how to describe it but I hope you get the idea

 

[trog100]

i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..

the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..

which type of money are you gonna spend.. i am treating crypto as one type of money in this question..

trog

 

[hat]

I agree Hat, I think that even with the amount BTC grows most days or just stays it's ground, it's definitely going upwards so as long as it takes to make one when you mine it, at least it will eventually be worth more than it started out

Apologises, not so graceful in how to describe it but I hope you get the idea

I understand exactly what you mean. If I had $150 in BTC when it was worth 3000, today it would be worth $500 or more...

 

[phill]

Since March a friend and I had been mining ETH and ETC. At the start of it till we stopped we had made about 30 ETH coins and nearly to date, 100 ETC. From making an ETH coin every 2 days to now nearly 2 months, the same sort of thing goes to ETC, nearly 2 coins a day to a coin nearly in 4 days.. Obviously the hashing rates and such of the cards have dropped over time simply because the DAG files changed it and difficulty has raised.

If we had kept all of those, we'd have erm, a lot

Recently we had sold off a few ETH coins that I had and that we reinvested into Bitcoin. Sadly that went a little wrong but when I remind my mate of when I said to him we should have invested in it when it was around the $3000 mark.. Scary times...

From what we have now it is only because we have flipped coins and reinvested it into Bitcoin, as we should have done ages ago. I'm more convinced that Bitcoin is the way forward, for how long it stays up over the $11000 mark I have no idea (like everyone else I'm sure) but I do believe if it crashes, it will crash very hard.
Still, I can't say I'm unhappy with what my mate and I have done, I just wish we had held on to the coins we had made. It would have been worth a heck of a lot of cash....

 

[trog100]

i think the 11000 mark phil is just a mark on its way up.. this month i bought 4 eth coins.. i paid just over £940 for them.. i also bought 15 litecoin for about the same money.. the 4 eth coins are now at £1359.00 and the litecoin at £1145.00.. thats a profit of around 600 quid..

my nicehash stash has gone up about the same over the month.. thats a profit of over £1200 over the month of november..

i expect to see the same percentage gains over the coming months.. mining has become of secondary importance to me now.. most of my gains are from just watching the price of my crypto stash go up..

trog

 

[phill]

Yep it sure does, it's just knowing when to cash out and buy back in again to make the most of what you have mined or got in the mean time. It's just a little hard to judge sometimes. That said at times when ETH has dropped to like $200 and then back up to $300, that's a 50% increase and on top of that, would net you a massive amount of coin gains as well if you sell at $300 to buy back at $200..
Most of the time my mate and I just missed the boat, but making them was much easier before, hence this is what we did.. Looking back as you always do is easier to do than doing it there and then.. It's just a shame we never just held them as it would have made us some serious money for not a lot of outgoing cash... That said, if I can gain more Bitcoin through mining or selling off what I have now, I'd throw it together in the pot and leave it there until such time.. I mean if it drops and we could double what we have in Bitcoin now, I'd be loving it

 

[Papahyooie]

i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..

the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..

which type of money are you gonna spend.. i am treating crypto as one type of money in this question..

trog

I understand what you mean. This is why my cash investments stay in bitcoin, while I plan to sell off / buy goods with my mined coins. One investment for growth, the other to convert to cash/goods as a safe haven. If the doom and gloom crowds are right and the bubble bursts sometime in the near future, I'll still have profit in cash and goods. If I left 100% of it in bitcoin, and the market crashes it will all be for nothing.

It's called diversification (though not in as strict a sense as the word is normally used in investment.) As I said, you can think the mining "way of thinking isn't valid" ... But I think you just haven't followed that line of thinking to its conclusion. Simply thinking "This will net me the largest percentage return as long as btc continues to rise" is fine, as long as your appetite for risk is high. Some of us simply play a longer game.

 

[trog100]

unlike some i dont see much risk in it papa.. i see it as the future.. i recon its here and its here to stay and above all i see it as continuing to rise for quite some time yet.. if i didnt i would not think as i do.. two kinds of money.. one goes up in value and one dosnt.. its pretty obvious to me which one i keep and which one i spend..

but if it all does go tits up i will survive and in truth it is spare money i would only waste on other stuff i dont really need.. it makes a change having an "interest" that aint costing me a fortune.. he he

people not spending crypto may well be its downfall.. but i for one sure aint gonna spend it as long as i think its gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is today..

trog

 

[phill]

Best way forward Mine and keep it, buy and sell and keep profits, then if it starts to go Pete Tong, sell it and pocket from whatever you have made

 

[Papahyooie]

unlike some i dont see much risk in it papa.. i see it as the future.. i recon its here and its here to stay and above all i see it as continuing to rise for quite some time yet.. if i didnt i would not think as i do.. two kinds of money.. one goes up in value and one dosnt.. its pretty obvious to me which one i keep and which one i spend..

but if it all does go tits up i will survive and in truth it is spare money i would only waste on other stuff i dont really need.. it makes a change having an "interest" that aint costing me a fortune.. he he

people not spending crypto may well be its downfall.. but i for one sure aint gonna spend it as long as i think its gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is today..

trog

And I never said your philosophy or way of doing it was invalid... You're the one who said that.

 

[trog100]

not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..

so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he

what more can i say..

trog

 

[Papahyooie]

not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..

so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he

what more can i say..

trog

No, you literally said that it was invalid. You said the type of thinking behind mining is invalid.

 

[silkstone]

not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..

so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he

what more can i say..

trog

The thing is, if you'd bough 1 bitcoin, you still only have 1 bitcoin and it'd be worth $11 000 sure. But it's only be worth that once you sold it. Then once you've sold it, you're back to square one.

With a mining rig, you have potential LT earnings from it.

Sure, you'd have been better off buying 1 BTC, THEN building a rig with the profits, but hindsight is no real help.

I spent and extra $300 on a 1080 and kept it mining for the past 6 months and have made ~$1200, though I had some hardware already. If I had bought BTC (or even just mined and converted), I'd have more today, but I still have the original value of my hardware.

I cashed out $600 over that past week to do a computer upgrade and buy a 1080Ti and a 1060 which cost around $1600 USD total. My holdings are down, but my rate of income is up 2-fold. Had I invested that additional $1000 into currency, there is a good chance I would make more, but who the hell knows what the market will do. If the $1600 I invested goes down by 50%, I'd be pissed. If the value goes down now, I have still hedged by buying a kick-ass computer that I wanted anyway.

Don't kick yourself too much. hindsight is all good and well, but are you sure you would have sold at $11000 and not $5000? About 10 years ago, I mined BTC when it was at a rate of about 0.5 BTC per day, but I lost interest and gave up all my coins. I tell myself now, that I'd likely have sold them all at $200 anyway.
My current strategy is to keep at least 50% of what I mine and sell the other 50% to recoup costs. That way, if it goes up, I'll still see my holdings increase and not be too pissed if I miss a peak.

 

[P4-630]

Winklevoss twins become first Bitcoin billionaires

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/99486498/winklevoss-twins-become-first-bitcoin-billionaires

 

[toilet pepper]

i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..

the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..

which type of money are you gonna spend.. i am treating crypto as one type of money in this question..

trog

Sold my .02 BTC a month ago. It is twice its worth now.

 

[trog100]

the more this conversation continues the more it becomes obvious to me that cashing in your mined crypto is a mistake..

cashing in the type of money that goes up for the type of money that dosnt makes no sense at all..

this applies even if its to buy hardware to mine with.. the money would best be spent simply buying coin.. coin being the type of money that goes up.. buy it and watch it go up.. dont piss about taking ages to mine it..

currently cashing in mining money to buy more mining gear is just 100% wrong.. if you want to make some money just chuck all the spare cash you have into crypto and leave it there.. he he

sadly you cant spend the crypto.. not yet anyways..

my 10 card mining set up is currently producing for me .0023 bitcoin per day.. this figure has dropped from .0044 where it was three months back.. the dollar figure at around 25 per day looks okay but the bitcoin gained isnt.. if the intention is to cash out quickly the only figure that matters is the dollar figure..

i am more interested in the bitcoin gained figure.. at the current rate it would take 500 days mining to gain one bitcoin.. if the coin price keeps going up as i expect it to the .0023 per day figure is gonna keep going down.. i already own the mining gear so its no loss to me to keep it running and see that happens.. but i for sure aint gonna buy any more mining gear..

as for the spare high end graphics cards that may be laying around.. sell them on ebay and use the money to buy coin..

trog

 

[silkstone]

the more this conversation continues the more it becomes obvious to me that cashing in your mined crypto is a mistake..

cashing in the type of money that goes up for the type of money that dosnt makes no sense at all..

this applies even if its to buy hardware to mine with.. the money would best be spent simply buying coin.. coin being the type of money that goes up.. buy it and watch it go up.. dont piss about taking ages to mine it..

currently cashing in mining money to buy more mining gear is just 100% wrong.. if you want to make some money just chuck all the spare cash you have into crypto and leave it there.. he he

sadly you cant spend the crypto.. not yet anyways..

my 10 card mining set up is currently producing for me .0023 bitcoin per day.. this figure has dropped from .0044 where it was three months back.. the dollar figure at around 25 per day looks okay but the bitcoin gained isnt.. if the intention is to cash out quickly the only figure that matters is the dollar figure..

i am more interested in the bitcoin gained figure.. at the current rate it would take 500 days mining to gain one bitcoin.. if the coin price keeps going up as i expect it to the .0023 per day figure is gonna keep going down.. i already own the mining gear so its no loss to me to keep it running and see that happens.. but i for sure aint gonna buy any more mining gear..

as for the spare high end graphics cards that may be laying around.. sell them on ebay and use the money to buy coin..

trog

It depends how you start. I started by putting $300 in for a 1080, had I not reinvested in mining gear, I'd likely have the same amount of crypto money I do now, but no way to make more apart from hoping the markets keep going up.

It's all well and good saying you should put ALL your money into crypto currency, but you don't know if/when it will crash again.

If you put money in, you really have to figure out what you'll be happy selling at first and I don't know how you'd make that decision in these markets. $10,000? $20,000?

At least with mining, you don't have that worry. You make what you make. Hold when it's low, sell some when it's high and make more.