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RocketRaid 2782 Unable to add more HDD's please help...

mikeyce

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#1
Hello everyone,

I currently am having a problem when trying to add more hard drives to my machine. PC list below:

Gigabyte Z77x-UD5H board
Intel i7-3770K chip
Gskill Ripjawsx 32GB of memory 4x8 sticks
850w Antec power supply
Norco 24 HDD bay case
RocketrAID 2782 controller
Running Windows server 2012

Everything is in stock form. Nothing overclocked or changed.

I currently am running a rocket-raid 2782 in my pcix16 slot. I have the raid card controlling all hdd's (there are none attached to the motherboard and no CD-rom installed either). Raid controller on the board is also disabled. The problem i am having is that when I try to install my 21'st hard drive into the machine. I currently have 20 drives installed and everything is working fine. 4 of the drives are in raid and running the OS. The other 16 are JBOD and each have there own drive letter assigned. Now the problem is that when i install the 21st hard drive the computer will lock up briefly for about 10 seconds then run normally for approx 30 seconds then windows will display a error message telling me the computer has encountered a error and needs to restart. I have gone through and tried to add different drives and brands of drives thinking this may be the cause and still received the same results every time. I then also tried changing cables, slots on where the drives are, breakout cables from the raid card to the case main holders, and everything else power or cable wise and still with the same results. I also then tried to add the 21st hard drive using my eSata docking station which holds 2 drives. The computer still does the same thing just with the eSata it lags a bit longer maybe by 10 more seconds before it decides to bring up the error message and restarting. So i then tried to use my same eSata cradle (which also has usb) and with the usb the computer is fine. I was able to add 6 more drives with my usb cradles with no problem. So now my question to you is: Is the motherboard only capable of controlling 20 drives per channel on the pci slot through the board? I have searched online and cannot find anything anywhere. I am just stumped on why it would work to 20 then stop.....any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time everyone!!
 

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#2

crazyeyesreaper

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#4
whats the powersupply for the system I know its 850w but specifics would be nice.

Most units have a 150w max on the 3.3v and 5v combined at spinup an HDD can use 10-15w thats 200-300w for your HDDs alone. Since your using a Raid card staggered spinup probably is not an option. Staggered spinup allows 1 drive at a time to spin up first so power draw isnt so harsh.

21 HDDs on 1 PSU would be a huge stretch even for the massive 1250w units do the pull on the 3.3v and 5v rails.

I know I killed a Corsair HX850 with just 5 HDDs and 2 Sata dvd drives the smaller rails couldnt handle load it went out of spec and system would shut down.

A good way to look at it is to check Silverstones PSUs they usually have less Sata connectors compared to their competitors. Corsair unit might have 12 Sata plugs but you can't use all of them its not designed to handle that. yet a similar Silverstone unit might have 8 sata plugs same wattage etc.

20+ HDDs in a system on an 850w PSU just screams bad idea.
 
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#5
Can you get into the RAID manager before Windows starts? Is the drive shown there?

If Windows is having a hard time with the number of drives, we could perhaps get around it by adding new drives to existing JBODs.
 

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#6
whats the powersupply for the system I know its 850w but specifics would be nice.

Most units have a 150w max on the 3.3v and 5v combined at spinup an HDD can use 10-15w thats 200-300w for your HDDs alone. Since your using a Raid card staggered spinup probably is not an option. Staggered spinup allows 1 drive at a time to spin up first so power draw isnt so harsh.

21 HDDs on 1 PSU would be a huge stretch even for the massive 1250w units do the pull on the 3.3v and 5v rails.

I know I killed a Corsair HX850 with just 5 HDDs and 2 Sata dvd drives the smaller rails couldnt handle load it went out of spec and system would shut down.

A good way to look at it is to check Silverstones PSUs they usually have less Sata connectors compared to their competitors. Corsair unit might have 12 Sata plugs but you can't use all of them its not designed to handle that. yet a similar Silverstone unit might have 8 sata plugs same wattage etc.

20+ HDDs in a system on an 850w PSU just screams bad idea.
While I agree, most drives don't use the 3.3v rail and for drives like the WD Black, the amount of draw on +5v is relatively small compared to the draw on +12v. However, I agree with the fact that too many drives could be putting too much strain on the +5v rail, but I don't think it's too unrealistic to put that many drives on one PSU if it has a decently strong +5v rail, not that I would recommend it.

I do agree with you though that this very well could be the issue, I'm just not convinced of it yet. Also my blacks (according to draw from the wall,) only increase power draw by ~5 each when they spin up and once they're spun up it's less than half that just to keep them spinning. Newer drives might just draw less, but once again it comes down to the drives I think when it comes to how much power they eat.
 

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#7
Ill put it this way

Corsair HX 10000 and HX 850 couldnt not properly run with 5 HDDs 1 SSD 2 Opticals without staggered spinup the PSUs would fail to boot granted the HDDs are older Sata II models.

The fact is it could be power issue. They limit sata connectors for a reason on the PSUs crossload on 3.3v 5v 12v can cause instability = crashes hangs other problems.

Even my Thermaltake 1050w 80 PLUS gold will hand on occassion if I do not have Staggered spinup in my bios enabled.

1x 500gb WD Black
1x Samsung F3 1TB = 4w on 5v and 5w on the 12v = baseline
1x Samsung F1 1TB
2x Samsung F4 1.5TB
1x Plextor M5 Pro
1x Adata S510
1x Sata DVD

Granted system will still boot but with other high end components lets just say it doesnt like it.

Depending on the HDD it should be between 2-4w on the 5v and 5w on the 12v rail

so 20 x 4 = 80w on the 5v rail and thats just for HDDs what about other components ? not everything uses 12v and the fact is most PSUs even high end ones are 150w 3.3v + 5v COMBINDED.

He is also using Raid array this means multiple drives are always running no option for them to shut down to save power. So as the system loads up more parts start drawing power hes probably got some serious crossloading going on on top of the extreme drain on the minor rails. Eitherway. hes probably hit the PSUs limit.

So again while drives use less when in use that first spin up draws ALOT of power.
 

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#8
Ill put it this way

Corsair HX 10000 and HX 850 couldnt not properly run with 5 HDDs 1 SSD 2 Opticals without staggered spinup the PSUs would fail to boot granted the HDDs are older Sata II models.

The fact is it could be power issue. They limit sata connectors for a reason on the PSUs crossload on 3.3v 5v 12v can cause instability = crashes hangs other problems.

Even my Thermaltake 1050w 80 PLUS gold will hand on occassion if I do not have Staggered spinup in my bios enabled.

1x 500gb WD Black
1x Samsung F3 1TB = 4w on 5v and 5w on the 12v = baseline
1x Samsung F1 1TB
2x Samsung F4 1.5TB
1x Plextor M5 Pro
1x Adata S510
1x Sata DVD

Granted system will still boot but with other high end components lets just say it doesnt like it.

Depending on the HDD it should be between 2-4w on the 5v and 5w on the 12v rail

so 20 x 4 = 80w on the 5v rail and thats just for HDDs what about other components ? not everything uses 12v and the fact is most PSUs even high end ones are 150w 3.3v + 5v COMBINDED.

He is also using Raid array this means multiple drives are always running no option for them to shut down to save power. So as the system loads up more parts start drawing power hes probably got some serious crossloading going on on top of the extreme drain on the minor rails. Eitherway. hes probably hit the PSUs limit.

So again while drives use less when in use that first spin up draws ALOT of power.
As I said before, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that +5v load is relatively low, even during spin up. Some numbers on how much power is actually being drawn on his server might shed some light on this predicament. Once again, I agree with you that it's a distinct possibility.

Spin up probably hits +12v harder than +5v though. I doubt that the +5v is to drive the motor, but rather the drive's controller logic and SATA interface.

Also, even my Seasonic 1000w Platinum is only rated to 125-watt 5v+3.3v combined and so far 4 HDDS, 2xSSDs, and one optical drive doesn't seem to cause issues on my end. There are only a handful of components that still use +5v, like USB. Personally I think the PSU should be strictly +12v and +5v and +3.3v should be created as needed, but I'm not an EE so shame on me. :p
 

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#9
Ill put it this way

Corsair HX 1000 and HX 850 couldnt not properly run with 5 HDDs 1 SSD 2 Opticals without staggered spinup the PSUs would fail to boot granted the HDDs are older Sata II models.

The fact is it could be power issue. They limit sata connectors for a reason on the PSUs crossload on 3.3v 5v 12v can cause instability = crashes hangs other problems.

Even my Thermaltake 1050w 80 PLUS gold will hand on occassion if I do not have Staggered spinup in my bios enabled.

1x 500gb WD Black
1x Samsung F3 1TB = 4w on 5v and 5w on the 12v = baseline
1x Samsung F1 1TB
2x Samsung F4 1.5TB
1x Plextor M5 Pro
1x Adata S510
1x Sata DVD

Granted system will still boot but with other high end components lets just say it doesnt like it.

Depending on the HDD it should be between 2-4w on the 5v and 5w on the 12v rail

so 20 x 4 = 80w on the 5v rail and thats just for HDDs what about other components ? not everything uses 12v and the fact is most PSUs even high end ones are 150w 3.3v + 5v COMBINDED.

He is also using Raid array this means multiple drives are always running no option for them to shut down to save power. So as the system loads up more parts start drawing power hes probably got some serious crossloading going on on top of the extreme drain on the minor rails. Eitherway. hes probably hit the PSUs limit.

So again while drives use less when in use that first spin up draws ALOT of power.
Had the same setup literally melted my 24pin connector I can attest to this. Pics are floating about TPU someware.
 

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#10
Had the same setup literally melted my 24pin connector I can attest to this. Pics are floating about TPU someware.
I don't see how having more drives can melt your 24-pin ATX connector. That sounds like a completely different problem.
 

mikeyce

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#11
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.

This is my power supply http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=705216&fid=5022037

For the question on staggered spin up the answer is YES. The raid card has the feature and it is on. I can also hear each drive boot independently when starting so i know its working.

Also for the question with can the raid card bios see the drive in beginning boot the answer is also YES. But the computer will boot and sometimes it wont with the 21st drive installed or 22nd or how ever many you add over 20. The raid card and my norco case has hot swappable function and that is how i add or pull drives normally and have been doing for years with no problem. With the 20 drives installed currently i can use and have full control of all functions without any problems. I only get the error when adding anything more than 20 drives....

Unfortunately i don't think power is the issue though for sure with this problem..... I have 2 other PC's with the same power supply in them and one has 45 drives (20 1TB black drives and 21 2TB Green drives) the other 4 are in raid for OS, and it is running no problem between 3 cases that hold all the drives and the main PC. The black drives are always running for video camera recording and the greens do power down after 20 mins. This computer even has 2 crossfire cards installed as well and has never had a problem with power. On a watt meter that's right in the wall behind the battery back up it only pull about 550 watts with my 4 monitors, About 330 watts without monitors on. The other machine is my main PC and has 4 SSD's in it with dual vid cards as well as 2 optic drives and no problem.....I even tried swapping power supplies from my main PC to the one with the problem just for giggles and still no difference. But i already know the power supply is not being bogged down but figured it could have been faulty or something so tried anyway.

Back to the PC with the problem though if you read in my post i even tried adding the 21st drive through my esata docking station with the same results......the weird part here now is why does it do the same thing by adding the extra drive into my raid card which is in my PCIx16 slot cause the same error as adding it to the docking station which is going through my mobo esata port?....I have never used a gigabyte mobo before so i don't know if they have limits in the board itself for traffic on the PCIx lanes or not and limit it to 20 hdd's or something......I could technically try and take one of my lsi cards from my other PC and try it in my PCIx8 slot and see if the drives pop up but I don't really want to pull apart the good machine and 2nd i really cant because of the video recording that it is currently doing for customers. I am trying to build this machine as a back up for the camera recoding machine but stuck here now with this problem. I also forgot to add that I already tried reinstalling windows server 2012 about 2 weeks ago thinking maybe something messed up and no luck same problem. I also disabled the raid for the OS and installed windows just on 1 primary drive and tried again and still no luck......

Does anyone know of any sites that have in depth technical info for the gigabyte boards or any boards at least that i could search through? I would just like to rule my theory out if i could because im stuck on it right now and cant even think outside the box anymore lol.

I also sent 2 emails to gigabyte tech support with no luck yet. They replied they need to investigate further and will get back to me because they are unsure as well at what the specs are on the board for the channels themselves and if that would be causing the problem or not with their hardware......

Thanks for taking the time to read my replies!
 

Aquinus

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#12
I don't think this is a motherboard issue, I think you're wasting your time contacting Gigabyte. Before you do anything I would make sure that your voltages are within ATX spec.
 

mikeyce

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#13
I don't think this is a motherboard issue, I think you're wasting your time contacting Gigabyte. Before you do anything I would make sure that your voltages are within ATX spec.

I found some info on the board online on some Intel forum in the UK and I believe the board does not have enough shadow memory and that is my limitation and cause of the error. A lot of boards from gigabyte are showing max drive amount of only 10 drives allowed with the amount of shadow memory available on them......Not sure that is my problem 100 percent but i think it may be..... I tried looking in the BIOS as well as I already have 100 times for disabling shadow memory but don't see anything......any thoughts.

Thanks!