[Rumor]Apple Switching to Zen2 in 2019??

[Deleted member 158293]

AMD did sell their ARM division... they most probably could restart an ARM program by now, but don't see a reason for them wanting to split resources at this point in time with such a successful flagship product.

I would see Apple going the custom ARM route on OSX to raise their garden walls even higher for full control at all costs, not for any customer benefit.

 

[bonehead123]

Key word here for apple: Control...

Always has been, always will be !

 

[Aquinus]

If AMD can pull out the power efficiency and multi-core performance card at the same time. I could see Apple considering it.

It might not be a train-full of salt, but maybe a truck or car load instead.

 

[phanbuey]

Comparing a 720p 'medium' bench with todays' ingame performance is not realistic. Things don't scale linearly like that. Its not like you can put three or four of these Bionics together and have a 1070. The whole point of Apple's focus is that they manage superior optimization for a specific use case. As good as an A12X gpu is in one of their devices, it doesn't work anywhere else like that.

x86 isn't 'slow'. Its different. ARM doesn't have the burden of legacy, but it also doesn't have the legacy capability and software to go with that, which, actually, does a whole lot more than ARM software is doing at this point. They both have their place and I think the greater CPU is a result of combining the two. It provides versatility neither can offer on its own. Its an illusion to think one is 'better' than the other,. they're both being actively developed and its no surprise there is more low hanging fruit left on ARM. Don't be surprised if at the end of the road, ARM will look a lot like x86 after all. Already many design wins and best practices are simply copied over, and with the x86 side now adding ARM, that will happen vice versa.

I don't think ARM is going to look like X86; just because RISC-inspired designs don't usually bloat with microcode. ARM's ISA is a bit CISC-y so I do see somewhat what you're saying; but i think they stick to the "keep the hardware simple" paradigm much more so than intel with x86.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/16/arm-says-chips-will-outperform-intel-laptop-cpus/

My point was that you're looking at a cheaper, easier to design, easier to manufacture, more power efficient chip - that has been gaining performance and that now offers comparable performance and allows their devices to share a software base. Unless there is a huge jump in x86 performance soon, Apple will move

 

[Steevo]

I don't think ARM is going to look like X86; just because RISC-inspired designs don't usually bloat with microcode. ARM's ISA is a bit CISC-y so I do see somewhat what you're saying; but i think they stick to the "keep the hardware simple" paradigm much more so than intel with x86.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/16/arm-says-chips-will-outperform-intel-laptop-cpus/

My point was that you're looking at a cheaper, easier to design, easier to manufacture, more power efficient chip - that has been gaining performance and that now offers comparable performance and allows their devices to share a software base. Unless there is a huge jump in x86 performance soon, Apple will move

Intel laptop CPUs of the 5W and lower class sure. But again, apples and oranges, want to pair a RTX590 or 1080Ti with an A12 and tell me it won't get bottlenecked at almost every task a desktop user expects?

 

[Vayra86]

I don't think ARM is going to look like X86; just because RISC-inspired designs don't usually bloat with microcode. ARM's ISA is a bit CISC-y so I do see somewhat what you're saying; but i think they stick to the "keep the hardware simple" paradigm much more so than intel with x86.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/16/arm-says-chips-will-outperform-intel-laptop-cpus/

My point was that you're looking at a cheaper, easier to design, easier to manufacture, more power efficient chip - that has been gaining performance and that now offers comparable performance and allows their devices to share a software base. Unless there is a huge jump in x86 performance soon, Apple will move

Apple is not really a player that will move the market in a different direction. They have 10%.

 

[anubis44]

There's no reason to switch to AMD unless they're looking to save a buck (quite plausible) &/or they want more cores.

You have just struck the proverbial 'slender, typically rod-shaped rigid piece of metal, used in building, in fastening, or in holding separate pieces of wood together', on the head. Apple, the world famous cost psycho, is almost certainly now interested in AMD because they think they can buy AMD CPUs and GPUs for cheaper, and they're probably right.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Switching to Intel from IBM gave Apple access to compute power that IBM was unable to deliver on for decades. Switch from Intel to Apple processors, they're basically leaving the productivity software market and the cost of maintaining Mac OS with it. It's kind of like Microsoft abandoning EdgeHTML in favor of Chromium: Mac OS makes up so little of Apple's business anymore it is hardly worth justifying, users be damned.

 

[king of swag187]

I doubt it, as even with Zen2, the power/thermal requirements would neccesitate redesigning their boards/heatsinks to be able to power/cool these chips, something apple is reluntant to do

 

[R-T-B]

iOS is not OS X.

No. It's stripped down OS X. Still the same kernel, etc. Unstripping it should be trivial really.

Switching to Intel from IBM gave Apple access to compute power that IBM was unable to deliver on for decades.

More like power efficiency.

I don't think ARM is going to look like X86; just because RISC-inspired designs don't usually bloat with microcode. ARM's ISA is a bit CISC-y so I do see somewhat what you're saying; but i think they stick to the "keep the hardware simple" paradigm much more so than intel with x86.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/16/arm-says-chips-will-outperform-intel-laptop-cpus/

My point was that you're looking at a cheaper, easier to design, easier to manufacture, more power efficient chip - that has been gaining performance and that now offers comparable performance and allows their devices to share a software base. Unless there is a huge jump in x86 performance soon, Apple will move

That is such an over simplififucation. RISC has it's own issues like code density, etc.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

No. It's stripped down OS X. Still the same kernel, etc. Unstripping it should be trivial really.

It's the same paradox Microsoft faced with Windows 8. iOS is designed exclusively for touch devices; Mac OS is designed for pointer devices. Merging the two without pissing them off is not a trivial task. When you take into consideration all programs need to have bias in favor of one or the other, the entire software-scape needs reshaping; hence, why Microsoft has UWP (touch biased) and Win32 (pointer biased) side-by-side.

Windows NT was the core of both branches of OS (even Windows RT). Kernel really doesn't matter when the crux of the problem is user interface/interaction.

 

[R-T-B]

Merging the two without pissing them off is not a trivial task.

A unified interface need not be required.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

That's why the Microsoft Surface and clones...Apple really has no answer to (a touch bar, really?). It was made possible by the convertible nature of Windows 8 initially.

 

[R0H1T]

I doubt it, as even with Zen2, the power/thermal requirements would neccesitate redesigning their boards/heatsinks to be able to power/cool these chips, something apple is reluntant to do

You mean they'll need even less cooling/components with Zen2 on 7nm or did you have something else in mind?

 

[king of swag187]

You mean they'll need even less cooling/components with Zen2 on 7nm or did you have something else in mind?

I meant what I said, they have enough cooling as it is

 

[phanbuey]

That's why the Microsoft Surface and clones...Apple really has no answer to (a touch bar, really?). It was made possible by the convertible nature of Windows 8 initially.

If i was them I would go in reverse and add a cursor/mouse to the iPad pro for "PRO" apps. Way easier than trying to mangle OSX into a touch interface IMO.

Plus without Jobs they're going back into the days of the Pepsi CEO and releasing increasingly expensive and stale crap. Cook is just executing it better than Sculley, and they are way bigger now, but it's kind of the same scenario.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yes, adding pointing device support to iOS is much easier than making Mac OS touch friendly. Microsoft has been at it for almost ten years now and Windows 10 still has a lot of UI elements that are not touch friendly; however, if Apple does that, I think they can kiss the professional market goodbye for good. iOS is pretty terrible at, for example, context switching, which is what professionals do a lot of in a work environment. There's also that slight problem that iOS is written for ARM, not x86. If Apple changes from x86 to ARM, all of the professional programs have to be updated to work on the new platform.

TL;DR: the whole notion of it screams "DISASTER!" Zen 2 + Mac OS X makes a lot of sense.

 

[R0H1T]

I meant what I said, they have enough cooling as it is

And that makes sense to you? How much does it cost redesigning a chassis? And btw Apple would have to redesign for Intel chips as well. Except with Zen2 they're getting more efficiency, yay batter life, & much better IGP, yay for consumers. There's 2 major USP right there.