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Ryzen 3000 - 2 questions

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1. If I purchase Ryzen 3600/3600X CPU (in July), paired up with a B450/X470 motherboard (giving the X570 a miss), would this combination work straight out of the box? Or would I need a previous generation AMD ryzen chip to update the BIOS first?

2. Does the larger cache size matter with these newer 3000 Ryzen CPUs? One of AMDs charts was calling this "game cache" for which I'm assuming helps gaming in one way or another?
 

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1.) You will likely need a BIOS update. AMD may provide BIOS upgrade kits like they did when the Ryzen 2000 processors came out though.

2.) "Game Cache" is just AMD's attempt to cash in on the Gaming Gimmick. Yes, the large cache will help with performance, but it's not just specific for gaming. In fact, I don't think gaming will benefit all that much from the large cache, but I could be wrong. We'll have to see, but Intel chips with huge L2/L3 cache sizes don't really seem to benefit in gaming from the larger cache.
 
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thanks for the quick response!

.....AMD may provide BIOS upgrade kits like they did when the Ryzen 2000 processors came out though......
BIOS upgrade kit? A previous gen CPU or an alternative solution like a media input installation?

"Gaming Gimmick" - that was my first impression too, although as with all things new the optimism never fades with me, unfortunately.

Just one last Q - i'm based in the UK. Does the 7th July launch become effective in our part of the world too or a little later on? I tried checking AMDs website but no info was found for regional availability.
 
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1.) You will likely need a BIOS update. AMD may provide BIOS upgrade kits like they did when the Ryzen 2000 processors came out though.

2.) "Game Cache" is just AMD's attempt to cash in on the Gaming Gimmick. Yes, the large cache will help with performance, but it's not just specific for gaming. In fact, I don't think gaming will benefit all that much from the large cache, but I could be wrong. We'll have to see, but Intel chips with huge L2/L3 cache sizes don't really seem to benefit in gaming from the larger cache.
They do if they have crappy latency (Skylake X, Ryzen)
 

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BIOS upgrade kit? A previous gen CPU or an alternative solution like a media input installation?
With the last generation they sent you a CPU and heatsink, then you had to send the CPU back when you were done with it. You got to keep the heatsink.

Just one last Q - i'm based in the UK. Does the 7th July launch become effective in our part of the world too or a little later on? I tried checking AMDs website but no info was found for regional availability.
Usually it's a global launch date. But that doesn't mean your retailers will have stock on that day. Sometimes even US retailers don't have stock on launch, or don't have a good amount of stock.
 
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2.) "Game Cache" is just AMD's attempt to cash in on the Gaming Gimmick. Yes, the large cache will help with performance, but it's not just specific for gaming. In fact, I don't think gaming will benefit all that much from the large cache, but I could be wrong. We'll have to see, but Intel chips with huge L2/L3 cache sizes don't really seem to benefit in gaming from the larger cache.
In the Phenom II days, the L3 cache added a 15% in best case scenarios, but that was 6MB vs nothing at all. I bet the difference would be less than that, but we have to wait and see.
 

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I'd advise against purchasing a B450 / X470 board right now unless you already know for a fact (not a rumor) said board will support the CPU you're looking to pair it with.

That said, it's way too early to know how much you're missing out on by not going with a X570 board for that CPU instead, besides PCIe 4.0: depending on what that is, it may actually make more sense to opt for a cheaper X570 board than a good B450 / X470 board, chipset fan not withstanding. Since we can only find that out after X570 boards and Zen 2 CPUs are launched, i'd suggest waiting until reviews come out, and then decide.

Who knows: OP may even be able to purchase a B450 / X470 board (if he so chooses) @ a cheaper price precisely because of X570 platform launch ... or not ...
 
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cache does help,but it depends on the game.

 

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With the last generation they sent you a CPU and heatsink, then you had to send the CPU back when you were done with it. You got to keep the heatsink.
Only if mobo manufacturer refused to do RMA for BIOS update (it is in AMD's loaner program fine print). In other words, you shouldn't buy a 4## motherboard for a Ryzen 3### processor unless you have a compatible processor yourself to slot into it and do the upgrade. If you do not, you're looking at a week minimum turn around time doing a an RMA at your expense to get the BIOS updated.

Edit: The mainstream 5## chipsets aren't coming until 2020:
 
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Only if mobo manufacturer refused to do RMA for BIOS update. In other words, you shouldn't buy a 4## motherboard for a Ryzen 3### processor unless you have a compatible processor yourself to slot into it and do the upgrade. If you do not, you're looking at a week minimum turn around time doing a an RMA at your expense to get the BIOS updated.

Edit: The mainstream 5## chipsets aren't coming until 2020:
Never heard of anyone doing this.Just tell the vendor to flash it.It costs pennies.
and why would they even accept a rma ticket on a working board?
 
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I don't think gaming will benefit all that much from the large cache, but I could be wrong.
Not sure either but what I do know is that operating systems can take advantage of the larger cache and that's a good thing because when the OS can complete its tasks faster, that frees up resources for other programs, for example your security apps and your game. But that does not mean the user will notice any improvement in the game play just because of the larger cache.
"Gaming Gimmick"
More like a "marketing" gimmick, or at least marketing "hype". Not that that's bad, it just means you need to keep a few grains of salt nearby. ;)
 
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Not sure either but what I do know is that operating systems can take advantage of the larger cache and that's a good thing because when the OS can complete its tasks faster, that frees up resources for other programs, for example your security apps and your game. But that does not mean the user will notice any improvement in the game play just because of the larger cache.
More like a "marketing" gimmick, or at least marketing "hype". Not that that's bad, it just means you need to keep a few grains of salt nearby. ;)
at 70MB in some cases could it not provide a bit more then normally seen say 2-5%, I'm just thinking of Intel's I series chips with 128MB(just got up so I can't quite recall I5 5675C? could be wrong size and chip) of on-die cache, they do quite well, it is not as much but it is nearer and faster.
 
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at 70MB in some cases could it not provide a bit more then normally seen say 2-5%, I'm just thinking of Intel's I series chips with 128MB(just got up so I can't quite recall I5 5675C? could be wrong size and chip) of on-die cache, they do quite well, it is not as much but it is nearer and faster.
That wasnt even full speed l3 cache either.

skl-x is a great example. Take a look at gaming benchmarks between the 7800x the 7820x and the 7900x, what u will see is even in games that use no more than 4 threads there is a clear difference between them with 7800x performing quite badly, and when u really crank the cache at the higher end i9s they start outperforming the 7900x while clocked lower.
 

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Never heard of anyone doing this.Just tell the vendor to flash it.It costs pennies.
This service is free of charge with the following condition:
Once you have submitted your claim for a processor loan boot kit, AMD will require pictures of your 2nd Gen Ryzen™ Desktop Processor and AMD Socket AM4 300-series motherboard, that clearly shows the model numbers and unique serial numbers as well as a copy of the purchase invoice(s) to authorize the request. Additionally, a summary or copy of communication with the motherboard manufacturer is requested to indicate why support from the Original Design Manufacturer (ODM) is not suitable.
and why would they even accept a rma ticket on a working board?
Because it is not working (it presents like a dead CPU and/or motherboard). If you have a motherboard that has a BIOS version too old to use the CPU you purchased for it with no means to update the BIOS, the motherboard is effectively dead-on-arrival. A consumer without an older CPU to boot the board has no way to verify whether or not the board has BIOS too old or if it is really just broken.


If you want Ryzen 3### and a trouble-free build, go X570 or wait until 2020.
 
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Because it is not working (it presents like a dead CPU and/or motherboard). If you have a motherboard that has a BIOS version too old to use the CPU you purchased for it with no means to update the BIOS, the motherboard is effectively dead-on-arrival. A consumer without an older CPU to boot the board has no way to verify whether or not the board has BIOS too old or if it is really just broken.


If you want Ryzen 3### and a trouble-free build, go X570 or wait until 2020.
you're making zero sense.no one will care,you bought a working cpu and a working board.it does not constitute grounds for rma if they don't work together for obvious reasons.bios update costs a pack of cigarettes and doesn't require rma'ing.
 
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1. If I purchase Ryzen 3600/3600X CPU (in July), paired up with a B450/X470 motherboard (giving the X570 a miss), would this combination work straight out of the box? Or would I need a previous generation AMD ryzen chip to update the BIOS first?
Make sure the motherboard that you get has "flashback" so you never have to worry about this. (@NoJuan999 beat me to the list on Reddit) AMD made this mandatory on Threadripper motherboards, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same isn't true for the X570 motherboards as well. This is from MSI:

2. Does the larger cache size matter with these newer 3000 Ryzen CPUs?
We have no idea, but more L3 has always meant better performance historically.
70MB? Where are you seeing that?
 
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Make sure the motherboard that you get has "flashback" so you never have to worry about this. (@NoJuan999 beat me to the list on Reddit) AMD made this mandatory on Threadripper motherboards, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same isn't true for the X570 motherboards as well. This is from MSI:


We have no idea, but more L3 has always meant better performance historically.

just to confuse the story see this from AMD ,says 64MB.
doh


I'm thinking L3 at 8MB 2MB per CCX with L3= L4 64MB Gamecache on the io die, that would reduce the core die size And mitigate the extra latency the Io die gives, or a confusing typo, or just me, any one got links to the Full press deck or whitepaper?
 
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Maybe this will help? That looks like 32MB of L3 per chiplet to me. That's why I'm so interested in how the 3900X will perform.
 
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Maybe this will help? That looks like 32MB of L3 per chiplet to me. That's why I'm so interested in how the 3900X will perform.
right they must be using every bit of cache to get to that 72MB not just L3, Ty.
 
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Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
25,138 (6.34/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) Sapphire NITRO+ RX 590 Special Edition 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate Exos X12 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
you're making zero sense.no one will care,you bought a working cpu and a working board.it does not constitute grounds for rma if they don't work together for obvious reasons.bios update costs a pack of cigarettes and doesn't require rma'ing.
:banghead: What makes no sense? Spending a month trying to get your computer to work tends to make people that run into the issue care. If the BIOS aren't updated on the board, the board gets power and that's it: no video, no POST codes, no beeps, no nothing. As I said, it presents as DOA. It totally does constitute grounds for RMA: AMD literally says this in the Knowledge Base article. When you buy the board from vendors like Newegg or Amazon, it does require RMA'ing because there's no one around with the CPU necessary to update the BIOS.

I'm speaking from experience: Ryzen 2400G in a B350 motherboard. The B350 board had to be sent back to MSI to receive the BIOS update which adds Raven Ridge support. The board worked as advertised when I got it back but, again, huge PITA.
 
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Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
581 (1.23/day)
Location
London, UK
The cache is usually to keep the data in the buffer, first in first out and queue, the more cache the more data it will hold and faster will be based on priority the cpu itself decides realtime. It all depends on the workload. The 3900x is a no brainer, the best cost benefit ryzen cpu starting 7/7 2019.
 
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