Ryzen 3500x vs Ryzen 1600 AF, worth it?

[LordFarquaad]

I have a Ryzen 1600 AF CPU overclocked at 4ghz would really like a 5600x but alas funds won't let me, I have found for about £140 Ryzen 3500x (6c/6t 3.6g/4.1g boost) and even though it has no SMT it is 3rd gen Ryzen with IPC uplift and runs higher default clocks, strictly for gaming would the 3500x be a much better CPU? this one YT video I watched showed between 20-50% FPS improvements compared to the Ryzen 1600, is that even possible? Something to also bear in mind is my RAM, the max I can set it to with my 1600 AF is 3400 CL14, it is Samsung B-Die memory so should probably be good for at least 3600/3800 but my IMC tops out at 3400 without crashes, possibly the 3500x might allow me that further step to 3600/3800 because of better IMC of Ryzen 3rd gen, I should be able to sell this 1600 AF for at least £100 so possible £40 outlay for the Ryzen 3500x and 6 less virtual cores which don't seem to matter much in gaming, it's either that or a NVME SSD/240mm AIO both of which are subjective upgrades compared to the CPU

You can also apparently overclock the 3500x to 4.3-4.5Ghz which should gain another 10% improvement

 

[Lionheart]

Yes, the 3500X will definitely be an improvement for gaming, the SMT does come in handy but if you're only gaming it should suffice just nicely. It's future demanding games you might have to look out for.

Also, I got a Ryzen 5 3600 sitting in it's box under my bed doing nothing, been meaning to sell it but just having got around to doing it, PM where you're from and I might be able to sell it to ya for a fair price.

 

[Selaya]

What's your GPU, unless you have like a 2070S/3060 or above, I really wouldn't bother all that much as you're GPU bottlenecked in any case.
Also, I would save up for the 5600X instead of throwing away cash for a 3500X, depending on what you're playing the 6T can bottleneck you quite hard.

 

[The red spirit]

I have a Ryzen 1600 AF CPU overclocked at 4ghz would really like a 5600x but alas funds won't let me, I have found for about £140 Ryzen 3500x (6c/6t 3.6g/4.1g boost) and even though it has no SMT it is 3rd gen Ryzen with IPC uplift and runs higher default clocks, strictly for gaming would the 3500x be a much better CPU? this one YT video I watched showed between 20-50% FPS improvements compared to the Ryzen 1600, is that even possible?

You can also apparently overclock the 3500x to 4.3-4.5Ghz which should gain another 10% improvement

Seems to be quite doable. OG Ryzen had IPC of Haswell-Broadwell, considering that Intel had a jump of performance of going to Skylake and later cranked clocks, it looks like Intel could have achieved those gains. AMD had like 10% IPC gains from going to Zen+, then had quite big jump in IPC with Zen 2. If you crank clock speed of Zen 2 higher than stock, then gains like that seem to be doable. But keep in mind that person in video used RTX 3070. With weaker card you might not see gains that big. If you already have 1600 AF, it should be Zen + and thus gains in video look just a bit too good to be true. Depending on what card you have, it may not make sense to upgrade it. If you have something older and weaker, like GTX 1060 6GB, then CPU upgrade could be ignored as it would be hardly beneficial. Also upgrade to just another gen are generally bad and not worth it. If you don't have much cash, then it's worth to skip 2-4 gens and then upgrade, when you will have CPU on which games start to be unplayable and when you can gain at least 2x performance. 5600X just doesn't bring that yet. You may need to wait for Zen 4 or Zen 5.

 

[Selaya]

Ignore the IPC, throw that concept right out of the window. All modern CPUs have way more IPC than is necessary for gaming.
What makes Matisse superior over Pinnacle Ridge is the fact that it's got 16MiB of L3 (per CCX), compared to Pinnacle Ridge's 8.

 

[LordFarquaad]

Seems to be quite doable. OG Ryzen had IPC of Haswell-Broadwell, considering that Intel had a jump of performance of going to Skylake and later cranked clocks, it looks like Intel could have achieved those gains. AMD had like 10% IPC gains from going to Zen+, then had quite big jump in IPC with Zen 2. If you crank clock speed of Zen 2 higher than stock, then gains like that seem to be doable. But keep in mind that person in video used RTX 3070. With weaker card you might not see gains that big. If you already have 1600 AF, it should be Zen + and thus gains in video look just a bit too good to be true. Depending on what card you have, it may not make sense to upgrade it. If you have something older and weaker, like GTX 1060 6GB, then CPU upgrade could be ignored as it would be hardly beneficial. Also upgrade to just another gen are generally bad and not worth it. If you don't have much cash, then it's worth to skip 2-4 gens and then upgrade, when you will have CPU on which games start to be unplayable and when you can gain at least 2x performance. 5600X just doesn't bring that yet. You may need to wait for Zen 4 or Zen 5.

I cant afford 5600x doubt I will afford 6600x/7600x anytime soon, my GPU is AMD 5600 XT, 20-40% gains on CPU alone is pretty significant even if it only translates to 15-30% that is a big improvement for what is basically a £40 outlay no?

Ignore the IPC, throw that concept right out of the window. All modern CPUs have way more IPC than is necessary for gaming.
What makes Matisse superior over Pinnacle Ridge is the fact that it's got 16MiB of L3 (per CCX), compared to Pinnacle Ridge's 8.

They don't obviously as there wouldnt be a 30-50% increase in FPS with the same GPU and different CPU's, yes IPC helps, yes cache helps but 20-40% improvement in gaming regardless is impressive might push my 5600 xt to it's optimal performance?

Also just got SAM with driver update, that with Zen 3, higher IPC and clocks and RAM speed could be another 10% for nothing?

 

[Tetras]

As already said, the AF won't be such a big jump since it's a 2600 and the video is using a 3070 at 1080p, which also exaggerates the difference in certain scenarios because of the shifting bottleneck. A 3500X is more of a sidegrade really, unless the nature of your gameplay prioritises those scenarios there was a significant bump in FPS.

 

[Mussels]

The IPC gains every gen are definitely noticeable.

I went from 1400 -> 1700 -> 2700x -> 3700x -> 5800x, and saw good gains (20FPS or so) every single upgrade (larger when i got the 5800x, because i finally changed from a mere GTX 1080 to the 3090)

 

[The red spirit]

I cant afford 5600x doubt I will afford 6600x/7600x anytime soon, my GPU is AMD 5600 XT, 20-40% gains on CPU alone is pretty significant even if it only translates to 15-30% that is a big improvement for what is basically a £40 outlay no?

How do you figure that it will only cost you 40 pounds?

They don't obviously as there wouldnt be a 30-50% increase in FPS with the same GPU and different CPU's, yes IPC helps, yes cache helps but 20-40% improvement in gaming regardless is impressive might push my 5600 xt to it's optimal performance?

No, you won't get that much improvement. RTX 3070 was bottlenecked in that video, your 5600 XT is weaker and is already not bottlenecked as much. Therefore your gains will be much lower if any at all. According to TPU database, RTX 3070 is 54% faster, so if you use identical settings as in video, in most cases you will see zero gains. You can only gain FPS, if your GPU cannot be loaded to 100% (it's bottlenecked by too slow CPU in certain games).

The IPC gains every gen are definitely noticeable.

I went from 1400 -> 1700 -> 2700x -> 3700x -> 5800x, and saw good gains (20FPS or so) every single upgrade (larger when i got the 5800x, because i finally changed from a mere GTX 1080 to the 3090)

Sure, but OP has RX 5600 XT. I doubt that will translate to much gains.

 

[Sempron Guy]

Worth it for gaming? That depends what gpu you currently have. If you are already limited by the gpu you might not see any difference at all.

 

[Deleted member 202104]

The people above who say it won't matter are correct. Here's an example:

From this review (other resolutions/quality and individual game results available):

4 Years of Ryzen 5, CPU & GPU Scaling Benchmark

We want to see how the Ryzen 5 1600X, 2600X, 3600X and 5600X compare in half a dozen games using the GeForce RTX 3090, RTX 3070, Radeon...

www.techspot.com

 

[Mussels]

How do you figure that it will only cost you 40 pounds?



No, you won't get that much improvement. RTX 3070 was bottlenecked in that video, your 5600 XT is weaker and is already not bottlenecked as much. Therefore your gains will be much lower if any at all. According to TPU database, RTX 3070 is 54% faster, so if you use identical settings as in video, in most cases you will see zero gains. You can only gain FPS, if your GPU cannot be loaded to 100% (it's bottlenecked by too slow CPU in certain games).


Sure, but OP has RX 5600 XT. I doubt that will translate to much gains.

I dunno man, TPU seems to think those GPU's are pretty equal - he'll see the same gains i did

I've gamed at 1440p for what feels like 300 years by now, just going up in refresh rates, and i tend to see about a 20FPS gain every time i upgraded the CPU, with the same GTX1080
The thing is... i didnt run ultra settings. I always turned things down for a smoother experience, and reviews and comparisons will always show you stuff at higher settings.

 

[Keullo-e]

Worth it, I'd say. The 3500X is surprisingly good for a CPU without SMT and Zen2 has just hella better IPC than Zen+. As an owner of 3600 and an ex-owner of 2600 I know the difference.

 

[The red spirit]

View attachment 218640

I dunno man, TPU seems to think those GPU's are pretty equal - he'll see the same gains i did

Which GPUs? Video had 3070, he has 5600XT.

I've gamed at 1440p for what feels like 300 years by now, just going up in refresh rates, and i tend to see about a 20FPS gain every time i upgraded the CPU, with the same GTX1080
The thing is... i didnt run ultra settings. I always turned things down for a smoother experience, and reviews and comparisons will always show you stuff at higher settings.

I still believe that average of 60 fps is totally fine. Average of 50 fps is fine too, if 1% lows are at 40 fps. And the real minimum specification is 40 fps average with 1% lows at no more than 30 fps. OP isn't really struggling badly for fps and he seems to not be well of. He said that cost of 3500X is unaffordable to him and he would need to stretch to afford 3500X. It's not going to be a huge upgrade anyway and I don't think that going into small debt or sacrificing on family expenses (or other personal expenses) is worth it.

@weekendgeek That's the idea basically, but difference in fps heavily depends on software. If he plays lots of simulators, strategy games or other CPU bound games, there is fps to be gained from higher IPC. Still, I think that difference is not big enough to upgrade yet.

 

[damric]

Overclock your 1600 AF more, try and get 4200MHz. I own several 1600 AFs, a 3600, and a 5800X. The 3600 is a little bit faster than the 1600s, but not very noticeable when the AFs are tuned up nice. The jump to the 5800X is very noticeable over either due to pure clock speed. 3500X is a waste of your limited money. Save that money, save a bit more, and get either the 5700G or 5800X when prices are good. That will be a worthy upgrade.

 

[Mussels]

Which GPUs? Video had 3070, he has 5600XT.



I still believe that average of 60 fps is totally fine. Average of 50 fps is fine too, if 1% lows are at 40 fps. And the real minimum specification is 40 fps average with 1% lows at no more than 30 fps. OP isn't really struggling badly for fps and he seems to not be well of. He said that cost of 3500X is unaffordable to him and he would need to stretch to afford 3500X. It's not going to be a huge upgrade anyway and I don't think that going into small debt or sacrificing on family expenses (or other personal expenses) is worth it.

@weekendgeek That's the idea basically, but difference in fps heavily depends on software. If he plays lots of simulators, strategy games or other CPU bound games, there is fps to be gained from higher IPC. Still, I think that difference is not big enough to upgrade yet.

I was comparing my experiences with a GTX 1080, vs his hopes with the 5600XT. I saw gains, he will too. DX11/DX12/Vulkan titles will show the biggest changes

 

[The red spirit]

I was comparing my experiences with a GTX 1080, vs his hopes with the 5600XT. I saw gains, he will too. DX11/DX12/Vulkan titles will show the biggest changes

It depends. Still, his gains will be very limited.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

With the news today off 5000xt I would wait on any purchases of a ryzen chip as with xt and alder lake just around the corner older CPU's are bound to drop on price one would assume.

 

[LordFarquaad]

Lots of replies, thank you, a lot of things to think about, and yes, my 5600 xt is not 3080 territory though is not too far off either way a 1080 as @Mussels referred to, cost wise the 3500x is £140, I am confident I could sell my 1600 for £100 give or take hence my £40 upgrade comment, as for waiting on new chips to drop prices of older, can't see this happening with the current chip shortage still ongoing, though maybe I should wait it out until I can snag at least a 3600x/5600x but that may well after the holidays right now

 

[Mussels]

Lots of replies, thank you, a lot of things to think about, and yes, my 5600 xt is not 3080 territory though is not too far off either way a 1080 as @Mussels referred to, cost wise the 3500x is £140, I am confident I could sell my 1600 for £100 give or take hence my £40 upgrade comment, as for waiting on new chips to drop prices of older, can't see this happening with the current chip shortage still ongoing, though maybe I should wait it out until I can snag at least a 3600x/5600x but that may well after the holidays right now

just make sure to buy the upgrade and have it arrive before selling!
repeating some bits since i replied to various people out of order, for clarity:

I run three ryzen systems (Main, second, server), so it was really easy for me to bench the 1080 between them when i got the 3080 (it died, RMA ended up adding cash for a 3090)
I also have the "junk build" in the closet, so i had Ryzen 1400, 1700*, 2400G*, 2700x, 3700x, 5800x (*sold)
I run high refresh rate 1440p, with my secondary being 60Hz 1440p (but fast Vsync enabled, it peaks to 120 max)
all my systems were made to be parts compatible as they were usually leftovers from an upgrade to my main system, making a GPU swap trivial before i went custom water

The GTX1080 was often used with high textures, low/off most other things to get 100+ FPS, and GPU usage was almost always maxed out.
The main thing i noticed was that in games with heavy on-screen effects (explosions? lots happening at once?) was when the FPS would dip and THOSE areas got the biggest gains, usually seeing 10-20FPS each generation i went up, with the 5800x just smashing things clean out of the water - going from ~90-110FPS in the Halo MCC to over 165 (vsync capped it there due to game issues, but i did not expect such a huge gain)

Then the 3090 came in, and it's sat at 165 in MCC no matter what, with the 5800x.

So again: even with the performance of a rx5600xt, you sure as hell will see gains in the minimum FPS where the CPU is the bottleneck, and the lower GPU strain average areas/settings where your FPS flies high (say... looking up at the sky? quiet scenes)

 

[eidairaman1]

What about a 5700 or 5800?

 

[LordFarquaad]

just make sure to buy the upgrade and have it arrive before selling!
repeating some bits since i replied to various people out of order, for clarity:

I run three ryzen systems (Main, second, server), so it was really easy for me to bench the 1080 between them when i got the 3080 (it died, RMA ended up adding cash for a 3090)
I also have the "junk build" in the closet, so i had Ryzen 1400, 1700*, 2400G, 2700x, 3700x, 5800x (*sold)
I run high refresh rate 1440p, with my secondary being 60Hz 1440p (but fast Vsync enabled, it peaks to 120 max)
all my systems were made to be parts compatible as they were usually leftovers from an upgrade to my main system, making a GPU swap trivial before i went custom water

The GTX1080 was often used with high textures, low/off most other things to get 100+ FPS, and GPU usage was almost always maxed out.
The main thing i noticed was that in games with heavy on-screen effects (explosions? lots happening at once?) was when the FPS would dip and THOSE areas got the biggest gains, usually seeing 10-20FPS each generation i went up, with the 5800x just smashing things clean out of the water - going from ~90-110FPS in the Halo MCC to over 165 (vsync capped it there due to game issues, but i did not expect such a huge gain)

Then the 3090 came in, and it's sat at 165 in MCC no matter what, with the 5800x.

So again: even with the performance of a rx5600xt, you sure as hell will see gains in the minimum FPS where the CPU is the bottleneck, and the lower GPU strain average areas/settings where your FPS flies high (say... looking up at the sky? quiet scenes)

Very detailed, Thank you! also not a believer of one size fits all, med, high ultra etc it's usually a blend of those per your individual system where you find the sweet spot usually it is high/ultra or medium with me, I am sure I can squeeze a bit more out between my CPU, GPU and RAM

 

[AlwaysHope]

With the news today off 5000xt I would wait on any purchases of a ryzen chip as with xt and alder lake just around the corner older CPU's are bound to drop on price one would assume.

Source?

 

[ThaiTaffy]

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-r...-of-2022-5nm-zen-4-to-start-sampling-in-2021/ not sure why very few outlets haven't picked up on the story

 

[Mussels]

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-r...-of-2022-5nm-zen-4-to-start-sampling-in-2021/ not sure why very few outlets haven't picked up on the story

that's saying they'll start production in the first half of next year, not that consumers will get anything that soon