Ryzen 3600 idle temperature fluctuation?

[RainingTacco]

GPU: 5700 XT Gigabyte Gaming OC
CPU: Ryzen 3600
CPU cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b
Motherboard: MSI B450M Mortar Max
RAM: Patriot Viper Steel 3600mhz CL17
PSU: Corsair RMx 850
Operating System & Version: Windows 10 64 bit
GPU Drivers: Newest drivers as of date.
Chipset Drivers: Newest as of date
BIOS: Newest as of date
Background Applications: Idle, Chrome with 20-30 tabs.
PC cooling: 2x140 in front at 1200 rpm when CPU climb at max temps, 2x120 rear and rear-top with 1200 rpm.
Case: Meshify C

Seriously how to make this CPU *NOT* constantly downclock/upclock, and change the temperature rapidly. Like my old I5 4670 had way better frequency control, power saving, and didn't jump in temperatures constantly. Is there any way to stop that? Any BIOS/software setting? I have sufficient cooling with Mugen 5 rev b and kryonaut, getting max 67-70 degree at furmark CPU/AIDA FPU tests, so cooling is not a problem. I've even repasted CPU with different paste[the one that came with Mugen 5 rev b], saw a temp. increase over kryonaut, but the fluctuations/spikes persisted as before.So this fluctuations completely destroys any fan curve, and make my case fans too loud on idle. I've thought on tying the fan speed with MOBO mosfet temps instead of CPU, but they hardly climb with how good MSI B450M mortar max manages the stock ryzen.I've tried to make a higher baseline RPM curve for lower temps, so it have more than enough cooling in low temps to manage the spikes, but it didnt help anything...I didn't try to change the step-up/step-down times[its basically hysteresis/inertia right?], maybe that will fix it? Though i doubt it, because it would need to be something like 1-2s of inertia, and there's no such value in BIOS. As a last resort i will try to use the stock cooler and check if it helps. Maybe the mugen is defective? But then, why it works under heavy load? If there was something funky with contact between IHS and mugen heat plate, it would make the temps skyrocket under prime95/aida fpu.


CPU sits 34*C idle at the windows desktop[32 at bios], when you move mouse it goes to 43-44*c, when you open chrome it can sometimes go to 50*C, and opening the chrome with lots of tabs it can go even as high as 59-60*C!!!. The frequency on all cores don't drop below 3600 mhz, and 1.0V, slightly moving mouse and bam you have 1,3-1,4V and 4,2GHz on desktop, same for chrome.
im pretty pissed after moving from a I5 4670 with a lousy stock cooler that run flawlessly, compared to this. I've never had such problems with Intel Pentium 4, E8400 and I5 4670. Never seen 10*C-15*C jumps in idle, or 20-25*C jumps when opening chrome with CoreTemp monitoring program along. Never seen CPU running such high freq and voltage on idle.[the i5 4670 runs 0,7v -0,8ghz on idle, and even if the frequency and voltage jumps for a fraction, the temperature increase is not that much[5-8*C, with chrome its 10-12*C], whereas ryzen runs 3,6ghz 1,0v all the time on idle. This also badly impact environement and my bills, since its wasted electricity.

Question is, i heard people talking about enabling/disabling cool and quiet, enabling/disabling power supply idle control, enabling/disabling PBO,setting P-states, manually overclocking/setting cores on the CPU to remedy this problem. So which one to do to fix the problem? I don't want to test all these settings, and screw something. Is there really no way to change it? I can't imagine a 2019 CPU needs to run its clocks at 3,2-3,6ghz at idle, to manage mundane tasks, when my old Haswell I5 4670, downlocked to 0,8GHz!!![and upclocked to 3,6 GHz when necessary!], and still run chrome/idle fine, with great temperatures[albeit i had 60hz monitor back then, idk if that changes anything, i doubt]

 

[Bill_Bright]

First, stock OEM coolers are not "lousy" like so many want us to believe. They are actually quite capable and pretty quiet too - compared to stock coolers from yesteryear.

While it may seem like it badly impacts your electricity bill, it doesn't. If your computer burned 300W for 8 hours straight (and no way it does this) per day, assuming the national average of $.12 per kWh, it would cost $8.64. If you got it down to 200W steady for 8 hours straight, it would cost $5.76. A savings of less than $3 per month.

If I were you I would reset the BIOS and all your clocks to get your base line values.

It is also important to understand it is your case's responsibility to ensure you have an adequate supply of "cool" air flowing through the case. You may need to look at your case cooling to see if you need to add another case fan. You generally want good "front-to-back" flow through the case.

You did not say where you are located but if your ambient (room) temps are high, that will greatly affect your case cooling too.

 

[RainingTacco]

First, stock OEM coolers are not "lousy" like so many want us to believe. They are actually quite capable and pretty quiet too - compared to stock coolers from yesteryear.

Please, no, STAHP! I'm intel fan, but their cooler, ohh lord, they are horrid. Their cooling capability is adequate, but they are super noisy. If you don't care about noise, yes they run stock CPU well.
I've never tried my wraith stealth cooler, i've assumed it will be crap, so i bought mugen.

While it may seem like it badly impacts your electricity bill, it doesn't. If your computer burned 300W for 8 hours straight (and no way it does this) per day, assuming the national average of $.12 per kWh, it would cost $8.64. If you got it down to 200W steady for 8 hours straight, it would cost $5.76. A savings of less than $3 per month.

I still would hate when CPU draw 30-40W, when it can 10-20W. That's 20W wasted.And that's more heat to dissipate, hence noisier fans.

If I were you I would reset the BIOS and all your clocks to get your base line values.

I've never overclocked the CPU, so i don't know why would that change anything? I've already tried that, when i've were tweaking the XMP profile.

It is also important to understand it is your case's responsibility to ensure you have an adequate supply of "cool" air flowing through the case. You may need to look at your case cooling to see if you need to add another case fan. You generally want good "front-to-back" flow through the case.

I think i don't need more cooling, after all meshify c is pretty open case, and i can't mount more fans on the front, 3x120 is pretty much wasteful since it goes to the psu shroud. I don't want another fan on top, because it would be hard to get positive pressure. My front fans are already running quite loud and fast.

You did not say where you are located but if your ambient (room) temps are high, that will greatly affect your case cooling too.

Im in central europe-Poland. Trust me, it's probably as cold here as in Nebraska

 

[dirtyferret]

My 9700k spikes as well, maybe not as high as your Ryzen but you can't compare these new six or eight core CPUs with HT, SMT, etc to quads and dual cores from years ago. The CPU spikes, there is a split second delay and then your HS fan kicks it up a notch. Your temps aren't bad, it just seems more of a nuisance to you then anything else.

 

[biffzinker]

You could try changing the fan step up/down delay time in the BIOS.

 

[Chomiq]

That's normal for Ryzen, it's boosting when it needs to, then it clocks down. My 3700X does the same thing. I just run mine with fixed ~1000 rpm below 60 C and maxing if it goes above it. The only fans I hear are front and rear fans when I set them to higher rpm when gaming, plus the GPU fan.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Please, no, STAHP! I'm intel fan, but their cooler, ohh lord, they are horrid. Their cooling capability is adequate, but they are super noisy. If you don't care about noise, yes they run stock CPU well.

I too am a Intel fan but sorry, their coolers are not horrid or super noisy. And I care very much about fan noise. In fact, I hate it. That's why I make sure I have a good case that is properly cooled too.

For sure, there are aftermarket coolers that cool better more quietly. No argument there. But again, OEM coolers are still very capable and quiet too, in spite of what many want us to believe.

I agree with you that your Meshify C case is a great case for cooling. I am also a fan of Fractal Design cases.

I still would hate when CPU draw 30-40W, when it can 10-20W. That's 20W wasted.And that's more heat to dissipate, hence noisier fans.

I agree, 20W wasted can still add up. And yes, that is wasted in the form of heat. Whether that means more fan noise or not depends on case noise suppression, case cooling and ambient temps.

Still, you might want to get a kill-o-watt meter and see what you are really pulling from the wall. Alternatively, many decent UPS will provide that information too. You might be surprised how little it actually is.

That said, is your CPU really at idle when you see those temps? Remember, when you (the user) go idle, lots of backgrounds processes kick in like malware scanning, indexing, defragging of hard drives, program updates and more. Do you let your computer go to sleep or do you shut it down? If you shut it down, many of those background processes don't have time to finish so they kick in frequently when you go idle. I just let my computers go to sleep. Once all those processes are allowed to finish (except defragging - I only have SSDs), then my system really does go idle.

Im in central europe-Poland. Trust me, it's probably as cold here as in Nebraska

LOL I just looked at Warsaw, Poland weather and it is 39°F (4°C) there and it is 39°F here! We'll have to compare notes in January - especially when the winds across the open plains kick up and the wind chill factor frequently takes us below -50°F (-45.5°C).

 

[jesdals]

I overclock mine by the Pstates setting to 4500MHz and manage to lower voltage to 1.412c vcore, currently running with infinity fabric set to 1866MHz (cant make it do 1900MHz). But it takes som tweaking, though the cpu was easy - just enable Pstates and set vcore (should start with 1.45) and nothing else - no PBO or any Ryzen Master in windows

 

[tabascosauz]

No offense intended, but it doesn't look like you understood what you were getting into when you bought into Ryzen 3000. The boosty nature of the silicon is literally the primary selling point of the entire processor family. It is intended to provide max boost on lightly threaded load demand with particularly low latency (1-2ms) to improve user experience.

1.0.0.3ABBA applied a "filter" to stop Ryzen from boosting on literally any trivial load, but doesn't change how the CPU works.

If you want a quieter experience, either set a custom fan curve, and/or get a beefier air or AIO cooler with quieter fans. No way around it. Also try offsetting voltage, if your chip is good enough to have undervolting room.

The problem with Ryzen 3000 is not full load temperatures, which will be just fine because it's smart enough to scale back clocks accordingly as more cores start coming online, but light load is a real roller coaster. That would be why your AIDA temps look just fine.

I completely understand your frustration, because I came from a more traditionally behaving Intel platform and was in for a major culture shock with Ryzen 3000. And unlike your 4670, my mediocre-binned 4790K was literally the hottest of Haswell. But there are ways to keep it under control, and the longer you use it, you will become accustomed to it.

In the event that you can't stand it, you can always set fixed clocks to sacrifice single thread boost to improve acoustics, temperatures, and multi-thread.

As to your statement regarding not drawing more than 10W if unnecessary, AMD does not believe that is the way to go. This is not a mobile platform, where deep idle states are important for thermals and battery life.

 

[thesmokingman]

smh

The fast reaction of the Ryzen cpu is the core philosophy of the Zen architecture. It's the pinnacle of multi core design, something Intel cannot achieve.... not sure you get that? Put another way, it defeats the point if you have a bunch of cores sitting around idling and doing nothing because they cannot react quick enough.

 

[Zach_01]

The above is the facts stated from those who know how a Ryzen 3000 works regarding boost behavior, but you should also understand that for the first time in history AMD has shown the hot spot of the entire CPU die/ccx/ccd.
Ryzen CPUs have more than 60 temp sensors per CCD (on 8cores that is or 2xCCXs). All other CPUs (Intel) including the Ryzen 1000/2000 series report the CCD edge temp located to 1 edge of the die/CCD. They do have multiple sensors but using them only internally for frequency/voltage regulation, and don’t report them.

The reported temp of Ryzen 3000 is the hot spot as I said and the internal monitoring of the CPU instantly switching to report the hottest sensor. It doesn’t mean that all other CPUs run cooler. You just don’t see it as those CPUs constantly report only 1 sensor at one edge of the die.

If you install the latest HWiNFO64 you will probably see a temp called CCD1 temp other than the CPU temp that is going crazy up/down. This is at my guess the traditional edge temp of the entire chiplet. It’s behavior is much steady and does not fluctuate as much.
Ryzen Master also report the edge temp I think and the two temps much only at maximum reading.

I do not know a way to “tie” you cooling solution to that CCD/edge temp though. Maybe there is a software that can do that.
For now you can just set a big offset to the fan curve, to have a hysteresis and not flactuate the rpm so much.

I myself don’t have this "issue" with the 3600 because I have a closed loop water cooler and I’ve set the fan curve to water temp which is not flactuate at all, unless there is a constant workload.

What is the maximum reading you have seen? If it is under 75C then you just forget about it and enjoy you PC.
There is nothing wrong with the CPUs and there is nothing to solve or remedy. People keep talking about it like it’s a flaw or a misbehavior. It’s not! It’s doing what it’s supposed to do. They just don’t know.

Forget about the old CPUs also. There is no really direct comparison. We have to get used to the new stuff. Things are changing and we must get along. The Ryzen 3000 series change the gameplay and does it all by it self. There is no real need for overclocking the way boost is implemented and you will see that even Intel will do the same to the next architectures.
The same behavior that GPUs already adopted. Look at the frequency behavior of modern GPUs by AMD/nVidia. It’s acting like the Ryzen boost, or vice versa to be exact.

For the first time AMD GPUs (Navi) report the hot-spot of the GPU die, the “Junction temp” along with the traditional “Edge temp”.

 

[1000t]

First thing you should try is to use highest values for that step-up/step down settings. The numbers might seem low (all sub 1 s), but it definitely has effect on fan ramping up or down. The CPU temperatures reported seem to be without any averaging and the highest value of any internal sensor, so they jump quite wildly. That the nature of Zen 2 CPUs it seems.

I've got a MSI motherboard and 3700X and used stock cooler for first two months. Even though I've set custom fan curves, the ramping up and down was mildly annoying, so now I have Dark Rock 4. The CPU fan curve is flat under 60°C (at around 900 rpm) and only rarely reaches higher temperature. I was also considering the same cooler, so I think I should be capable.

Just max those step up/down values.

 

[eidairaman1]

You have 20-30 tabs of chrome running, turn off hardware accel in chrome. As it is said before there are more sensors today than 2-7 years ago.

Tbf this thread appears to be clickbait.

/thread

 

[cucker tarlson]

You have 20-30 tabs of chrome running, turn off hardware accel in chrome. As it is said before there are more sensors today than 2-7 years ago.

comma means this also happens without chrome running,it's in the description if you read it carefully (or really was less biased toward disbelieving the OP)

CPU sits 34*C idle at the windows desktop[32 at bios], when you move mouse it goes to 43-44*c

The frequency on all cores don't drop below 3600 mhz, and 1.0V, slightly moving mouse and bam you have 1,3-1,4V and 4,2GHz on desktop, same for chrome.

Tbf this thread appears to be clickbait.
/thread

IMO the OP should be looking for answers on MSI forums at the same time.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Yeah idk I get a pretty substantial change in behaviour between all my chrome tabs and whatnot open and with nothing open at all. This isn't really a Ryzen problem...

My problem is really that motherboard vendors haven't really kept up with their fan control over the last few years... My M8F was the same with the 7700k... At least now Asus added a ramp time so that you don't immediately get a second of 100% to the fan when one core gets some work and boosts up for a fraction of a second while doing it...

I just set my fan curve to ramp mostly between 60 and 75c, add a slower ramp time and it's pretty usable, definitely better than I could do on the 7700k...

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I've never tried my wraith stealth cooler, i've assumed it will be crap, so i bought mugen.

SMH.

Being an intel Fanboi this reaction to the wraith cooler doesnt not surprise me, not only did you not waste your money, you didnt even search reviews for the wraith cooler. Its true not everyone likes it, and most would rather bash any AMD Product rather than actually take the high road and perform tests or adjust fan curves for the knowledge.

TBH. It really seems like this is clickbait since the OP hasnt responded since.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

I think you guys are overselling the stealth... It's far from as bad as the intel ones and zen2 isn't a power hog... But it definitely cuts back my boost by 100-150MHz on all core... And is more noisy when doing so

 

[cucker tarlson]

SMH.

Being an intel Fanboi this reaction to the wraith cooler doesnt not surprise me, not only did you not waste your money, you didnt even search reviews for the wraith cooler. Its true not everyone likes it, and most would rather bash any AMD Product rather than actually take the high road and perform tests or adjust fan curves for the knowledge.

TBH. It really seems like this is clickbait since the OP hasnt responded since.

there are various wraith coolers,and the one that comes with 3600 is the most basic one.mugen is in another league.

look at this.you guys are acting as if the amd logo made the cpu cooler by 10 degrees alone.this is very basic,and for a cpu that's boosting constantly and putting quite a lot of voltage at the same time it's gonna be rather poor even in light work.

smh

The fast reaction of the Ryzen cpu is the core philosophy of the Zen architecture. It's the pinnacle of multi core design, something Intel cannot achieve.... not sure you get that? Put another way, it defeats the point if you have a bunch of cores sitting around idling and doing nothing because they cannot react quick enough.

so moving the mouse around already activates the cores the be sorta ready ? I never thought of it like that,is it officially confirmed by amd that you can't idle while moving the mouse ?
Seems interesting but redundant.get them to work when there's actual work.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

you guys are acting as if the amd logo made the cpu cooler by 10 degrees alone.

Hardly!
3 degrees at mst!

 

[cucker tarlson]

Hardly!
3 degrees at mst!

90 degrees at 4GHz

 

[Zach_01]

there are various wraith coolers,and the one that comes with 3600 is the most basic one.mugen is in another league.

look at this.you guys are acting as if the amd logo made the cpu cooler by 10 degrees alone.this is very basic,and for a cpu that's boosting constantly and putting quite a lot of voltage at the same time it's gonna be rather poor even in light work.


so moving the mouse around already activates the cores the be sorta ready ? I never thought of it like that,is it officially confirmed by amd that you can't idle while moving the mouse ?
Seems interesting but redundant.get them to work when there's actual work.

I agree about the stealth cooler. It is bettter than most, if not all, Intel stock solutions but it is not great.
I have a closed loop water cooler because I had it already from previous FX-8370 CPU. But 99% I wouldnt keep the stealth for too long.

Ryzen 3000 idles just fine even with mouse movement. It is the hotspot sensor report that causes the reading to bounce around crazy.
The traditional edge temp (CCD1/2) reading stays rather steady.


Look it the averages of:
"CPU Tctl/Tdie" (hotspot)
"CPU CCD1 Tdie" (probably edge temp)



Tctl = fan contol = bouncing rpm as temp does.
Should create fan curves + delay or address fan control to another temp if possible (UEFI)

 

[Bill_Bright]

Tbf this thread appears to be clickbait.

It seems to have turned that way, huh?

 

[Zach_01]

And the point of a clickbait thread is...?

 

[killster1]

And the point of a clickbait thread is...?

well i dont have a problem with fan noise with a ryzen 3600 i do hate how it cant idle and any 0.000001% cpu usage causes it to boost to top clocks, why can it not handle idling? i changed my cpu to max 20% until recently and now its back to 100% to use as a heater for the room. when summer rolls around or i stop using the heater it will go back to 5-20% max cpu clocks and or be given away i bought the chip based on it being as good or better then 2700x that didnt have the same crazy boost problems.

 

[Zach_01]

Clearly you dont undrestand how these CPUs work and behave. There is no boost problems with them. And certainly they do not emit excessive amounts of heat... To be true the average heat dissipation is lower from Intel counterparts.
Just because you see a temp (hot spot) that spikes you think that it generates heat. Not the case...