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Ryzen 5 - 2500X or 2400G ?

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#1
A search of the net reveals speculation... speculation, and more of it, about this supposed 2500X to be released into retail channels.. but when??

Scored a good deal on some DDR4 ram for my next build & I only need 4 core / 8 thread cpu for my purposes atm. Motherboards are another issue altogether.

Already have my multisocket air cooler in another system being extensivley tested for thermal performance.

Thing about currenbt 2400G that does not impress me is it's limited cache compared to non iGPU Ryzen chips. Lots of cache has always benefited gaming performance.

Looking to a 2600X is obviously nice but idle cores & threads seem a waste of money except for benching purposes. :) Seeing that the vast majority of PC games even today still use "around" 4 or up to 8 threads/cores makes the argument for quad cores with SMT or HT more relevant.

I think it will be a couple of yrs or even longer before 6 core /12 thread cpus are standard for AAA game titles or at least when PS5 is released.
 
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#2
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the 2400G. Picking the 2400G gets you all cores on one CCX compared to 2500X having cores split by the Infinity Fabric interconnect. You also get a iGPU on die that might be useful if you plan on repurposing the APU for another role, and in case of card failure or troubleshooting.

The 2500X on the hand has improved latency at the memory controller, L3 cache, and L2 cache levels.
 
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#3
I built a 2400G system for a relative a month ago (my first Ryzen build) and I found it to be quite frankly, amazing. It'll run GTA4 and 5 using "onboard"! Gaming aside, it's a really great APU, IMHO. I couldn't tell the difference in general performance compared to my 4.8 6700K + RX580 rig, and I left the 2400G stock.

I spose the 2500X will have the improved turbo and will perform better than the 2400G, but that onboard is pretty sweet if you're not an elitist gamer with your displays.
 
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#4
It is just a different CPU for a different type of rig.

You never 'waste' cores or threads really, all you get with those 2 extra cores is being more future proof, ie the rig will last longer before its performance tanks.

2400G = ideal for a small form factor/silent and average performance rig that you won't push to limits and perhaps you may add a mid range GPU in due time.

You're only deluding yourself if you think 6c CPUs won't be useful for gaming. They already are. But it only shows at the higher end of the performance scale, so with fast GPUs. Even SMT, while being better than HT, won't benefit gaming in a consistent way. Only physical cores can guarantee you that and games really are closing in on the capabilities of the best CPUs faster than the CPUs gain performance. That has been a trend for years now, and this core count increase is long overdue really.

I built a 2200G ITX system for my parents a month ago. It works beautifully, but I would never pair that with powerful GPUs and call it a full fat gaming rig. It simply isn't. It lacks clockspeed to push high FPS and it lacks the cores to run anything on the background while gaming. Its also a total waste of the IGP to go that route with such a CPU.

But if you must choose between 2400G and 2500X... I would say 2400G because you get more bang for buck. You could use the CPU in any use case as an allround solution, the 2500X will require dedicated GPU to go along with it. The performance gap between these two quadcores is too small to justify losing that advantage I think. Both will perform largely the same in most games if your FPS target is 60.

If your choice would be between 2400G and 2600, now thát would really be a meaningful choice and thén I would suggest to go the 6c/12t route.
 
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#5
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the 2400G. Picking the 2400G gets you all cores on one CCX compared to 2500X having cores split by the Infinity Fabric interconnect. You also get a iGPU on die that might be useful if you plan on repurposing the APU for another role, and in case of card failure or troubleshooting.

The 2500X on the hand has improved latency at the memory controller, L3 cache, and L2 cache levels.
While having ccx latency is not ideal, I still think that higher core speed and more l3 cache on 2500X would easily overtake the advantage the benefit of no inter ccx latency. 2400g has 4mb, that's pretty pathetic by today's standards, even the 4c/4t 8100 has 6mb. 2500x supposedly has 8mb, and you will feel 2x l3 capacity in test results.
 
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#6
Looking to a 2600X is obviously nice but idle cores & threads seem a waste of money except for benching purposes. :) Seeing that the vast majority of PC games even today still use "around" 4 or up to 8
The 2600X will be the fastest of the three , in games , in benchmark and anything else. I'd pick that one , if not wait for the 2500X , although again the 2600X won't be useless at all.
 
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#7
Scored a good deal on some DDR4 ram for my next build & I only need 4 core / 8 thread cpu for my purposes atm. Motherboards are another issue altogether.
You might have painted yourself into a corner buying the RAM first. I always recommend selecting the motherboard and QVL listed CPU first, then refer to the motherboard's RAM QVL to ensure you get compatible RAM - RAM with the same specs as QVL listed RAM for that specific motherboard.

Not all DDR4 is supported by all DDR4 compatible motherboards or CPUs.
 
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#8
This is why I wouldn't get a 2400G for a system that I knew was going to have a dedicated GPU (even though w1zzard's shown that lanes aren't all that important):
 
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#9
Not all DDR4 is supported by all DDR4 compatible motherboards or CPUs.
Doubt it's an issue anymore considering the PNY DDR4-3200 I bought recently works fine even though MSI doesn't have it on the QVL.
 
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#10
This is why I wouldn't get a 2400G for a system that I knew was going to have a dedicated GPU (even though w1zzard's shown that lanes aren't all that important):
That’s not a concern at all for 90% of users as with PCIe 3.0 you won’t see any difference going from x16 to x8 and the market for Multi GPUs is very slim now

Even if someone planned to add a dGPU eventually it offers a great place holder GPU and stop has great CPU performance similar to the Ryzen 1400X
 

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#11
The 2600 is $10 more than the 2400G, I see no reason to even consider the 2400G unless you absolutely need the iGPU.
 

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#12
The 2600 is $10 more than the 2400G, I see no reason to even consider the 2400G unless you absolutely need the iGPU.
It's good for entry-level system decent gaming, later on if they want to upgrade they can always swap the chip out to something a little beefier with the graphics card.
 
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#13
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the 2400G. Picking the 2400G gets you all cores on one CCX compared to 2500X having cores split by the Infinity Fabric interconnect. You also get a iGPU on die that might be useful if you plan on repurposing the APU for another role, and in case of card failure or troubleshooting.?

The 2500X on the hand has improved latency at the memory controller, L3 cache, and L2 cache levels.
Agree with you on the 2500X strong points, its been shown over the years how lots of cache improves gaming performance. Numerous links from quick net search will show this.

I built a 2400G system for a relative a month ago (my first Ryzen build) and I found it to be quite frankly, amazing. It'll run GTA4 and 5 using "onboard"! Gaming aside, it's a really great APU, IMHO. I couldn't tell the difference in general performance compared to my 4.8 6700K + RX580 rig, and I left the 2400G stock.

I spose the 2500X will have the improved turbo and will perform better than the 2400G, but that onboard is pretty sweet if you're not an elitist gamer with your displays.
I'm single monitor gamer only. Can't stand split screens. Will be using my R9 Nano for time being so 1K to 4K (VSR on 2 yr old screen) is where its at for me.

You might have painted yourself into a corner buying the RAM first. I always recommend selecting the motherboard and QVL listed CPU first, then refer to the motherboard's RAM QVL to ensure you get compatible RAM - RAM with the same specs as QVL listed RAM for that specific motherboard.

Not all DDR4 is supported by all DDR4 compatible motherboards or CPUs.
Know what your saying, 1st time doing a build with ram first. But if you knew the deal I got on this brand new ram, you would probably do the same thing. A perusal of the net anecdotally shows this particular ram is fantastic OCer even on Ryzen systems & DDR4 prices were a stumbling block for my budget, at least OC friendly pieces anyway. I can not justify upgrading due to those relatively high DDR4 prices for new gear otherwise.

This is why I wouldn't get a 2400G for a system that I knew was going to have a dedicated GPU (even though w1zzard's shown that lanes aren't all that important):
Agreed, that's how my logic works too with gaming cpu focus. ;)


The 2600 is $10 more than the 2400G, I see no reason to even consider the 2400G unless you absolutely need the iGPU.
What part of the world are you in? cause' that's far from the situation where I am... unless I want to pay a premium in post/packing charges & that destroys the reason for buying 2600 for "only" $10 more.

It is just a different CPU for a different type of rig.

You never 'waste' cores or threads really, all you get with those 2 extra cores is being more future proof, ie the rig will last longer before its performance tanks.

2400G = ideal for a small form factor/silent and average performance rig that you won't push to limits and perhaps you may add a mid range GPU in due time.

You're only deluding yourself if you think 6c CPUs won't be useful for gaming. They already are. But it only shows at the higher end of the performance scale, so with fast GPUs. Even SMT, while being better than HT, won't benefit gaming in a consistent way. Only physical cores can guarantee you that and games really are closing in on the capabilities of the best CPUs faster than the CPUs gain performance. That has been a trend for years now, and this core count increase is long overdue really.

I built a 2200G ITX system for my parents a month ago. It works beautifully, but I would never pair that with powerful GPUs and call it a full fat gaming rig. It simply isn't. It lacks clockspeed to push high FPS and it lacks the cores to run anything on the background while gaming. Its also a total waste of the IGP to go that route with such a CPU.

But if you must choose between 2400G and 2500X... I would say 2400G because you get more bang for buck. You could use the CPU in any use case as an allround solution, the 2500X will require dedicated GPU to go along with it. The performance gap between these two quadcores is too small to justify losing that advantage I think. Both will perform largely the same in most games if your FPS target is 60.

If your choice would be between 2400G and 2600, now thát would really be a meaningful choice and thén I would suggest to go the 6c/12t route.
The upgrading for "future proofing" argument is long in the tooth imo.. That was my thinking back when I went all out with my budget & got i7-860 back in 09'. The potential to have 8 logical cores in windows 7 was a good idea at the time "in case" game devs decide to exploit all those cores... but this never happened, at least for games I was interested in. So that old i7-860 had its HT disabled cause'
it was useless for yrs until around 2015 or so. Besides that, OC it with HT enabled made that 45nm fab cpu hot pretty quickly, even with high end air cooling in full tower case.

When 7nm Ryzens released 2nd half 19', a re-evaluation of the scene will become a necessity imo. But no one knows for sure what cpu models will unravel then, but I'll bet they will be compatible with current AM4 chipsets if AMD history is anything to go by. But for now, start get my game rig ready for another hot Aussie summer coming our way & power usage is an issue so I'm keen on low TDP cpus. 95w TDP with 2600X is an absolute ceiling imo, but if I can avoid it I will :toast:

Budget wise, its' not justifiable with 2600X, nearly Au$100 diff between 2600X & 2400G atm, at least from reputable online Australian dealers.
 
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#14
Doubt it's an issue anymore considering the PNY DDR4-3200 I bought recently works fine even though MSI doesn't have it on the QVL.
Of course it is still an issue. Otherwise, motherboard makers would not go to the expense and logistics of testing dozens of different RAM with each of their boards, and go to the trouble of posting and maintaining those lists. It would be a big waste of money.

And as I noted above, you don't have to buy listed RAM, but you should buy RAM with the same specs as listed RAM if you want to ensure compatibility. So the fact your specific PNY RAM is not listed is immaterial. What matters is RAM with the same specs as that PNY RAM is.
 

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#15
What part of the world are you in? cause' that's far from the situation where I am... unless I want to pay a premium in post/packing charges & that destroys the reason for buying 2600 for "only" $10 more.
In the US the difference is about $10:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?CompareItemList=343|19-113-480^19-113-480,19-113-496^19-113-496

It seems in Australia the difference is $15:
https://www.umart.com.au/AMD-Ryzen-...U-with-Radeon-RX-Vega-11-Graphics_42943G.html
https://www.umart.com.au/AMD-Ryzen-...cessor-with-Wraith-Stealth-Cooler_43539G.html

I'd still go with the 2600, it's worth the $15.
 
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#16
@newtekie1 , you're talking 2600 while @AlwaysHope is talking the 2600X. There's about a $70 difference here, which is a 44% increase over the 2400G. For a gaming focused system, I'd recommend the "X" variants.
its been shown over the years how lots of cache improves gaming performance.
Part of the cache difference is that the 2400G is made from one CCX unit while the non-G Ryzens are made from 2. Remember the SLI on a stick GPU's that had double the VRAM, but really didn't?
It's important to note that the CCX of "Raven Ridge" is slightly different from the one found on "Summit Ridge" because its shared L3 cache is halved to just 4 MB. This is also why you can't directly compare CPU performance of the Ryzen 5 2400G clock-for-clock with the Ryzen 3 1200 "Summit Ridge," which has two cores enabled per CCX and 4 MB of L3 cache per CCX. It's the "4+0 vs. 2+2" face-off we wanted, though the 4+0 combination doesn't have the same amount of cache as 2+2. Each of the four cores still has 512 KB of dedicated L2 cache. The 2400G features SMT, while the 2200G lacks it.
The price on the 2500X is going to be interesting. You would assume that it will be priced between the 2400G and the 2600, but it has less "stuff", so it might actually end up cheaper than the 2400G.

BTW, my recommendation is the 2600X.
 
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#18
Of course it is still an issue. Otherwise, motherboard makers would not go to the expense and logistics of testing dozens of different RAM with each of their boards, and go to the trouble of posting and maintaining those lists. It would be a big waste of money.

And as I noted above, you don't have to buy listed RAM, but you should buy RAM with the same specs as listed RAM if you want to ensure compatibility. So the fact your specific PNY RAM is not listed is immaterial. What matters is RAM with the same specs as that PNY RAM is.
So you believe everything you read :roll::kookoo:
 
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#19
LOL

I believe companies are in it to make money and they would not expend $1000s to research dozens of different models of RAM for compatibility, then spend a lot more money to post that information on every one of their boards if such research was not needed or if compatibility was not a concern. That would just be a irresponsible use of their money, and shareholder's money.

If compatibility was not an issue, they could just put, "Use any DDR4 you want!".
 
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#20
LOL

I believe companies are in it to make money and they would not expend $1000s to research dozens of different models of RAM for compatibility, then spend a lot more money to post that information on every one of their boards if such research was not needed or if compatibility was not a concern. That would just be a irresponsible use of their money, and shareholder's money.

If compatibility was not an issue, they could just put, "Use any DDR4 you want!".
You really believe manufactures pay thousands to test 100s of different RAM models :roll:
 

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#21
@newtekie1 , you're talking 2600 while @AlwaysHope is talking the 2600X. There's about a $70 difference here, which is a 44% increase over the 2400G. For a gaming focused system, I'd recommend the "X" variants.
I'm aware that he mentioned the 2600X in his original post, but I clearly said 2600. He should have known that is what I was talking about.

Also, the 2600 is a more than capable gaming processor. There is no need to get the X varient.
 
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#22
LOL

I believe companies are in it to make money and they would not expend $1000s to research dozens of different models of RAM for compatibility, then spend a lot more money to post that information on every one of their boards if such research was not needed or if compatibility was not a concern. That would just be a irresponsible use of their money, and shareholder's money.

If compatibility was not an issue, they could just put, "Use any DDR4 you want!".
Asus use to have "mem OK" feature on their mobos, not sure if they use it anymore across all platforms today though.
MSI use to have led diagnostics via rear panel of mobos when booting, thus allowing the user to identify RAM or other booting issues.
My old Gigabyte 1156 mobo has onboard LED diagnostics that work similarly to what MSI did with there system.

So Tier 1 mobo vendors have had plenty of yrs to get across ram compatibility issues, so its quite a non issue these days imo.

In any case with DDR4 being available since 2014, & AMD not doing the switchover until 2017, that's plenty of time for mobo manufactures to get their act together for AM4 platforms today.

I'm aware that he mentioned the 2600X in his original post, but I clearly said 2600. He should have known that is what I was talking about.

Also, the 2600 is a more than capable gaming processor. There is no need to get the X varient.
From what I've seen across OC forums & reviews sites, the 2600X is the one to get if you want best OC experience, but about Au$60 more than 2600 in my part of the world.
 

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#23
In any case with DDR4 being available since 2014, & AMD not doing the switchover until 2017, that's plenty of time for mobo manufactures to get their act together for AM4 platforms today.
Really, the QVL lists aren't really the motherboard manufacturers saying what works with their motherboard. That used to be the case when the memory controller was on the motherboard, but now that it is on the CPU, all the QVL list does it give you an idea of what RAM they've tested to work at the full rated speed. The motherboard has little to do with this. You can put any DDR4 RAM in an AM4 board and it will run, but it might not run at its rated speed.

IME, with first gen Ryzen, anything over 2933 was a real craps shoot, but 3200 seems to work better than 3000 for some reason(I don't even think they had a divider for 3000). With second gen Ryzen, memory compatibility is greatly improved, and pretty much anything up to 3200 will work out of the box without much tweaking.

From what I've seen across OC forums & reviews sites, the 2600X is the one to get if you want best OC experience, but about Au$60 more than 2600 in my part of the world.
"The best OC expereience" and Ryzen shouldn't ever be said together. You are going to get minimal overclocking with either chip, and the 2600 at 4.0GHz is going to play any game you throw at it, your GPU will be the bottleneck long before the CPU. You might get a couple hundred MHz more out of the 2600X, but you will never actually notice that speed difference.
 
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#24
You really believe manufactures pay thousands to test 100s of different RAM models
I didn't say "pay", I said "expend". Sorry you don't understand the difference.

If you look at the QVL for AlwaysHope's motherboard, there are well over 100 different RAM models listed. Who do you think tested those models and created that list? Volunteers? Where was the testing done? In a lab donated to ASUS? Do you think the RAM makers give their RAM away? Who created and maintains the webpage and .pdf files? More volunteers? Who hosts those webpages and files?

And that is just one ASUS motherboard. I note Newegg right now has 49 ASUS motherboards and surely they have made 100s over the years.

Come on! I know ignorance is bliss but some common sense has to kick in at some point.

Why would ASUS and the other makers "expend" such time and money creating CPU, RAM and now SSD QVLs if not needed?

$1000? Yes! Many $1000s!
 
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#25
Really, the QVL lists aren't really the motherboard manufacturers saying what works with their motherboard.
Ummm, yes they are. They may not be all inclusive, but if you buy listed RAM or a listed CPU, the motherboard maker is saying that RAM or that CPU is compatible and will work with that board.
all the QVL list does it give you an idea of what RAM they've tested to work at the full rated speed. The motherboard has little to do with this.
??? I guess if you say the chipset and bus speeds have nothing to do with the motherboard, then you can say the motherboard has little to do with which RAM is compatible with that board. But that does not really make sense.
You can put any DDR4 RAM in an AM4 board and it will run,
Sorry, but not necessarily true. But don't take my word on it. See Doesn't every DDR4 motherboard support any DDR4 stick?
 
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