• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
Didn't you say JEDEC was failing TM5? maybe add a bit of VDIMM at 4800 and see what happens. Bit more VSOC probably helps too since you have faster UCLK at JEDEC than expo lol

The Gene is looking so sad, what an absolute unit of a OC board just sitting around collecting dust while the Raphael UMC trips over itself as soon as it touches DDR5. Meanwhile 13th gen can do it, but doesn't have a decent matx board to do it on

You are right of course, it's just that I paid so much on shipping to RMA the B550I Aorus AX (twice!) that I just don't want to do it again
Yes. JEDEC is failing TM5 and reboots randomly, while EXPO fails to boot on first try when cold, but is stable otherwise.

I don't think the RAM has any issues running at JEDEC - why would it? It's a 6000 kit, after all - but a bit more SoC voltage could help. Or maybe switching back to 1:2 mode and 1200 MHz UCLK. :laugh:

I don't see the Gene at UK stores. If I decide to ditch this crappy thing, my options will be the ASRock Riptide, the Asus TUF, or the Gigabyte Aorus Elite. The Riptide seems suspiciously cheap, and I'm not a big fan of Gigabyte, so I'm left with the TUF as the only choice. There's also the Asus Prime and Gigabyte Gaming X, but they both look even more poorly equipped than my current MSi Pro.

I know that feeling with the RMA. :( I RMAd two MSi boards last year (they were the same model, though)... that's why I can't comprehend why I trusted this joke of a brand again.
 

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
7,456 (2.33/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃B550-I Strix
Cooling PA120+T30┃AXP120x67
Memory 64GB 6000CL30┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Display(s) 43" QN90B / 32" M32Q / 27" S2721DGF
Case Caselabs S3┃Lone Industries L5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000┃HDPlex
Yes. JEDEC is failing TM5 and reboots randomly, while EXPO fails to boot on first try when cold, but is stable otherwise.

I don't think the RAM has any issues running at JEDEC - why would it? It's a 6000 kit, after all - but a bit more SoC voltage could help. Or maybe switching back to 1:2 mode and 1200 MHz UCLK. :laugh:

I don't see the Gene at UK stores. If I decide to ditch this crappy thing, my options will be the ASRock Riptide, the Asus TUF, or the Gigabyte Aorus Elite. The Riptide seems suspiciously cheap, and I'm not a big fan of Gigabyte, so I'm left with the TUF as the only choice. There's also the Asus Prime and Gigabyte Gaming X, but they both look even more poorly equipped than my current MSi Pro.

I know that feeling with the RMA. :( I RMAd two MSi boards last year (they were the same model, though)... that's why I can't comprehend why I trusted this joke of a brand again.

The Gene is $600 lol, do you actually wanna spend that much :laugh: I only brought it up as it's got the layer count advantage (+ 1DPC advantage!) along with the Gigabytes. Gaming X and DS3H excluded of course, those two are not only 6 layer but sus as hell VRM

I'm sure the 8-layers and Gene will start pulling ahead when next gen CPUs have actual mem OC capabilities, but Raphael is currently holding all the boards back

I won't say that TM5 *can't* catch UMC/Fabric related instability, but if it's printing errors off like mad and rebooting then it's most likely the RAM profile that isn't stable. VDIMM and VSOC are both low by default at JEDEC right?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
The Gene is $600 lol, do you actually wanna spend that much :laugh:
Oh Jesus, NO! I'd much rather boot twice at every cold start, thanks. :roll:

I won't say that TM5 *can't* catch UMC/Fabric related instability, but if it's printing errors off like mad and rebooting then it's most likely the RAM profile that isn't stable. VDIMM and VSOC are both low by default at JEDEC right?
I think they're 1 V or 1.05 V or something like that along with the SoC.

Edit: Oh wait, no. This is my JEDEC profile (I forgot that I took a picture earlier):
20221124_103420.jpg
 

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
7,456 (2.33/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃B550-I Strix
Cooling PA120+T30┃AXP120x67
Memory 64GB 6000CL30┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Display(s) 43" QN90B / 32" M32Q / 27" S2721DGF
Case Caselabs S3┃Lone Industries L5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000┃HDPlex
Oh Jesus, NO! I'd much rather boot twice at every cold start, thanks. :roll:

I think they're 1 V or 1.05 V or something like that along with the SoC.

Edit: Oh wait, no. This is my JEDEC profile (I forgot that I took a picture earlier):

Interesting how your UCLK defaults to 2400 1:1 and FCLK to 2000 at JEDEC though. I'm not sure that's supposed to happen? They said default Fabric is 1733 for Raphael. I would think that 1733 FCLK would provide a safe and reliable fallback, but that's just me.

Considering the alleged extra VSOC headroom, seems like you could easily add some VSOC and see what happens.

Might want to play with your VSOC LLC too. Not sure what the board is setting at JEDEC but I doubt it's defaulting to a weird number like 1.03V.

Could also mess with PLL (CPU 1P8) maybe up to 1.9 or 1.95. Doesn't look like that feature has changed much.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
I was actually thinking of the Asus TUF. I know it's a 6-layer one, but it has more than decent VRM, has my exact RAM on its compatibility list, and I've never had any problem with any TUF board before.
Asus x570 Tuf boards were their absolute worst, missing BIOS features, overheating chipsets, chipset fans with no control locked at 3K RPM at all times (leading to the myth all ryzen boards did that) and terrible ram clocking
 

freeagent

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
7,420 (3.67/day)
Location
Winnipeg, Canada
System Name Altered Beast
Processor AMD R9 5900X/5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO, 1x T30
Memory 2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s) Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage WD SN850X 2TB, SN850 1TB, SN770 1TB - Asus Hyper M.2, 2x SN770 1TB
Display(s) LG 50UP7100
Case Fractal Torrent Compact RGB
Audio Device(s) JBL 2.1 Deep Bass
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 750w G+, Monster HDP1800
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Logitech G213
VR HMD Oculus 3
Software Yes
Benchmark Scores Yes
I bought a TUF board once from Newegg. It was DOA. But! I could not believe what I was holding. It felt like such a cheap board. It was dead though, so it really was a piece of junk :D

I like Asus boards, but the quality of that board was subpar.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
Interesting how your UCLK defaults to 2400 1:1 and FCLK to 2000 at JEDEC though. I'm not sure that's supposed to happen? They said default Fabric is 1733 for Raphael. I would think that 1733 FCLK would provide a safe and reliable fallback, but that's just me.

Considering the alleged extra VSOC headroom, seems like you could easily add some VSOC and see what happens.

Might want to play with your VSOC LLC too. Not sure what the board is setting at JEDEC but I doubt it's defaulting to a weird number like 1.03V.

Could also mess with PLL (CPU 1P8) maybe up to 1.9 or 1.95. Doesn't look like that feature has changed much.
I had a feeling that 2400 UCLK is a bit high, so I dropped it back to 1:2 at 1200, and I couldn't even boot into Windows without a blue screen error. Now I understand how this works even less. :confused:

Next, I'll try adding a bit more voltage to the SoC and RAM at JEDEC. 1.2 V should do. If it errors out again, I'll be even more puzzled.

Maybe the best (or least bad) option is to leave it at EXPO and double boot every time. :(

Edit: TM5 successfully finished at JEDEC 4800 MHz, 1.2 V SoC, 1.2 V RAM, 2000/2400 FCLK/UCLK. It looks like my board's sweet spot is around this... until maybe a BIOS update that actually runs... or until I decide to give up and buy something better.

Edit 2: Again, no errors in TM5 at 5000 MHz, 1.2 V RAM, Auto timings (which are quite crap with CL 42, but whatever), 2000/2500 FCLK/UCLK, but with Auto = 1.065 V SoC. I think it's safe to conclude that 6000 MHz EXPO is a bit too much for this motherboard, even though it officially supports it with single sided DIMMs (aka. it's a piece of MSi crap), but the standard 1.1 V isn't enough for my RAM at JEDEC.

Edit 3 (I'll really stop now): Another stable run at 4800 MHz Jedec, VSoc Auto = 1.02 V, RAM at 1.15 V. I've noticed that HWinfo shows 1.14 V as RAM voltage, so my next suspicion is that it probably isn't stable at JEDEC with stock voltages because something's off with the motherboard's LLC and the RAM voltage drops too far below 1.1 V which I have to manually compensate. I'll just leave it at 1.15 V @ JEDEC for now.

I've got my plan: I'll wait a month or two for MSi to update their BIOS for better EXPO support. If they won't bother, or if I can't install the update like I couldn't install v14, then I'll buy the Asus TUF later.

Asus x570 Tuf boards were their absolute worst, missing BIOS features, overheating chipsets, chipset fans with no control locked at 3K RPM at all times (leading to the myth all ryzen boards did that) and terrible ram clocking
X570 was kind of a hit and miss altogether, imo. I had the B550 TUF, and the Intel B560 TUF in micro-ATX flavour - both are excellent boards.

I bought a TUF board once from Newegg. It was DOA. But! I could not believe what I was holding. It felt like such a cheap board. It was dead though, so it really was a piece of junk :D

I like Asus boards, but the quality of that board was subpar.
Yeah, old TUF products were quite cheaply made, but the brand has come a long way since then.
 
Last edited:

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
18,851 (3.08/day)
Location
UK\USA
Processor AMD 3900X \ AMD 7700X
Motherboard ASRock AM4 X570 Pro 4 \ ASUS X670Xe TUF
Cooling D15
Memory Patriot 2x16GB PVS432G320C6K \ G.Skill Flare X5 F5-6000J3238F 2x16GB
Video Card(s) eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX RX 6950XT RX-695XATBD9
Storage Sammy 860, MX500, Sabrent Rocket 4 Sammy Evo 980 \ 1xSabrent Rocket 4+, Sammy 2x990 Pro
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ LG 43UN700
Case Fractal Design Pop Air 2x140mm fans from Torrent \ Fractal Design Torrent 2 SilverStone FHP141x2
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V677 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 Infinity RS4000\Paradigm P Studio 20, Blue Yeti
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TX-750 \ Corsair RM1000X Shift
Mouse Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ Wooting Two HE
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
Finally got my mobo, Amazon f ing around again haha. Next be some voltage tweaks.


77ed.png
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.

MagnyCours

Gold Supporter
Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
56 (0.02/day)
Location
Jakarta, Indonesia
System Name Raphael // GS65-8SE
Processor Ryzen 7 7800X3D -20 PBO2 // i7 8750h -0.140V UV
Motherboard Aorus X670 Elite AX
Cooling Corsair H100i Pro XT 240mm
Memory 2x16GB Kingston Fury Beast RGB @6000-30-36-36-48-84 // 2x8GB 2666MHz
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Ultra 10GB @1860MHz 0.862V // RTX 2060 6GB Mobile 90W
Storage WD Blue SN570 500GB + Samsung 960 EVO 1TB // ADATA XPG SX8200 1TB
Display(s) Dell S2719DGF 27" 1440P 155Hz VRR
Case Corsair 460X Crystal
Audio Device(s) Apple USB C DAC Dongle
Power Supply Asus ROG Strix 850G (Rebranded Seasonic Prime Gold 850W)
Mouse Razer Orochi V2
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX
Software Win. 10 Professional
Benchmark Scores -
Mine also does without problems! I think EXPO automatically sets 1.25v~1.35v VSoC for 6000MHz, well, my motherboard does at least. Though AMD did claim that 6000 is the "sweet spot" for Ryzen 7000, so it is kind of odd that you're having lots of trouble running it.

6.PNG
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
Mine also does without problems! I think EXPO automatically sets 1.25v~1.35v VSoC for 6000MHz, well, my motherboard does at least. Though AMD did claim that 6000 is the "sweet spot" for Ryzen 7000, so it is kind of odd that you're having lots of trouble running it.

View attachment 272971
Mine sets 1.36 VSoC, but drops UCLK back to 1:2 at 1500. Then comes the hang-up during cold boot, needing me to turn the PC off and on again. If I set UCLK to 1:1 at 3000, it won't even boot at all.

I think my motherboard is a piece of crap without a doubt.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2022
Messages
900 (1.63/day)
System Name Windows
Processor 13900K
Motherboard MSI Pro Z790-A WiFi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15s
Memory 32GB 6600 CL32
Video Card(s) RTX 4090
Display(s) MSI MAG401QR
Case Phanteks P600s
Audio Device(s) Schiit Modi MB / Valhalla 2 & Asgard 3
Power Supply Vertex GX-1000
Software Windows 11 Pro 23H2
Benchmark Scores They suck.
Mine sets 1.36 VSoC, but drops UCLK back to 1:2 at 1500. Then comes the hang-up during cold boot, needing me to turn the PC off and on again. If I set UCLK to 1:1 at 3000, it won't even boot at all.

I think my motherboard is a piece of crap without a doubt.

My gut tells me it's your memory. I'm Running 2000:3000:3000 at 1.02v SoC. Any chance you can get another set of RAM to test with?

hwinfo.png
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
My gut tells me it's your memory. I'm Running 2000:3000:3000 at 1.02v SoC. Any chance you can get another set of RAM to test with?

View attachment 273008
It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.

I still think it is the motherboard, though.

When I set the RAM to run at 1.15 V, HWinfo reports 1.14 V. If it can only run at no less than 1.1 V, and the motherboard drops below that, it can cause problems. That is, something's up with the stock LLC options.

The other thing is the SoC voltage. If you can run 3000 UCLK with 1.02 VSoC, then there's no way the motherboard should apply 1.36 V just to run the RAM at 6000 with 1500 UCLK, but mine does for some reason.

Unfortunately, I'm the first and only one with DDR5 in my circle, so I can't test it unless I buy another kit. :(
 

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
7,456 (2.33/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃B550-I Strix
Cooling PA120+T30┃AXP120x67
Memory 64GB 6000CL30┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Display(s) 43" QN90B / 32" M32Q / 27" S2721DGF
Case Caselabs S3┃Lone Industries L5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000┃HDPlex
It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.

I still think it is the motherboard, though.

When I set the RAM to run at 1.15 V, HWinfo reports 1.14 V. If it can only run at no less than 1.1 V, and the motherboard drops below that, it can cause problems. That is, something's up with the stock LLC options.

The other thing is the SoC voltage. If you can run 3000 UCLK with 1.02 VSoC, then there's no way the motherboard should apply 1.36 V just to run the RAM at 6000 with 1500 UCLK, but mine does for some reason.

Unfortunately, I'm the first and only one with DDR5 in my circle, so I can't test it unless I buy another kit. :(

Some variance in set and reported VDIMM is to be expected on any motherboard. Most vendors except Gigabyte are usually ±0.01V. Don't take HWInfo at its word either, only a multimeter will tell you for sure.

I don't think @Super Firm Tofu 's 1.02V VSOC is EXPO default, probably an optimal number reached after testing. The others are also setting 1.25V automatically. Silicon quality is at play there and just cause others can do 1.02V @ 3000 doesn't mean yours can (sadly).

If you can pass linpack and memory-biased ycruncher tests in addition to the TM5 testing you've already done, it's a pretty clear indicator that your RAM is just fine, and your board is probably not the issue either. Generally boards running into absolute memory limits will make it pretty obvious they're not happy, and you will not be able to have a good time at 6000.

Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
I'm not getting any WHEA or bug check errors in event viewer, the crashes also don't seem to be logged as they're like hard resets, the only errors that seem to be happening are:



Doesn't seem like they were happening with the 7600X. I did have to reset my PIN at first 2 logins after fitting the 7950X, so not sure if there's some kind of fTPM or security issue or just over-optimistic PBO/CO. Or shit ASrock BIOS. Memtest does 3500% with the current settings so it's probably not the memory as i ran it like that for weeks before.
Saw this error on my 5800x system, googled it, got your post. damned useless errors.

Eventually the google and reddit rabbit hole found out it's a leftover error from thaiphoon burners service
In an admin CMD prompt you need to run
sc delete ssdgio
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
190 (0.11/day)
System Name 4K 144hz gaming PC :)
Processor Ryzen 9 7950X
Motherboard ASrock X670E Steel Legend
Cooling NZXT Kraken Z73
Memory 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5 6400 CL38 @ 6200 CL32
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom @ GS
Storage WB Black 1TB Pcie4
Display(s) iiyama G-MASTER G4380UHSU-B1
Case Lian Li O11D Evo
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Mouse Razer Deathadder Essential
Keyboard Razer Ornata Chroma
Software Win 11 PRO
Benchmark Scores Time Spy: 34857 Time Spy Extreme: 19629 Port Royal: 28542 Speed Way: 11257 (Hall of Fame)
Saw this error on my 5800x system, googled it, got your post. damned useless errors.

Eventually the google and reddit rabbit hole found out it's a leftover error from thaiphoon burners service
In an admin CMD prompt you need to run
sc delete ssdgio

Thank you for this, it worked and the error is now gone. Never checked how long it's been happening but probably since last summer when i installed it to use the DRAM calculator and then forgot about it.

Since then i'm 95% certain my crashes / hard reboots that don't even show up on the event logs are over-optimistic CO and boost.
When i'm bored, i run core cycler, 3dmark cpu profiler and cinebench, but it seems all core -10 and +125mhz or -13 and + 100mhz are stable or at least didn't crash in 2 days :laugh:
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2022
Messages
900 (1.63/day)
System Name Windows
Processor 13900K
Motherboard MSI Pro Z790-A WiFi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15s
Memory 32GB 6600 CL32
Video Card(s) RTX 4090
Display(s) MSI MAG401QR
Case Phanteks P600s
Audio Device(s) Schiit Modi MB / Valhalla 2 & Asgard 3
Power Supply Vertex GX-1000
Software Windows 11 Pro 23H2
Benchmark Scores They suck.
It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.

I still think it is the motherboard, though.

When I set the RAM to run at 1.15 V, HWinfo reports 1.14 V. If it can only run at no less than 1.1 V, and the motherboard drops below that, it can cause problems. That is, something's up with the stock LLC options.

The other thing is the SoC voltage. If you can run 3000 UCLK with 1.02 VSoC, then there's no way the motherboard should apply 1.36 V just to run the RAM at 6000 with 1500 UCLK, but mine does for some reason.

Unfortunately, I'm the first and only one with DDR5 in my circle, so I can't test it unless I buy another kit. :(

Sorry - I didn't include the whole story. Out of the box with EXPO settings, I also had 1.36 SoC, and 1500. I had to manually change to force 3000. I dropped SoC back to standard and ran all of the stress tests again (core cycler, TM5, y-cruncher) to make sure it was still ok. Everything else with RAM is still EXPO standards as far as voltage/timings. I'm also running CO at -25 all core with reduced PPT, EDC, and TDC (95w TDP mode in the BIOS).

@tabascosauz is probably right that I just lucked out with a decent sample of the 7700x. I wish we were close so we could swap RAM to rule that out - I'd really like to see you able to get it all sorted. :(

Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"

I'd really recommend trying what @tabascosauz is recommending to see if you can get past the need for a double boot @ 6000.

Also, as far as EXPO goes, it appears to me that it's just a WalMart version of XMP where they just crank up voltages and hope for the best. I may have gotten lucky with my specific CPU, but it wasn't plug and play by any means.

As a side note I also had a BIOS update that was supposed to 'Reduce Boot Time' and 'Increase Stability'. Post time dropped by 3 whole seconds (down to 27 seconds whoo-hoo), and while I had no stability problems before, the new update as least hasn't introduced any new instabilities.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
Some variance in set and reported VDIMM is to be expected on any motherboard. Most vendors except Gigabyte are usually ±0.01V. Don't take HWInfo at its word either, only a multimeter will tell you for sure.

I don't think @Super Firm Tofu 's 1.02V VSOC is EXPO default, probably an optimal number reached after testing. The others are also setting 1.25V automatically. Silicon quality is at play there and just cause others can do 1.02V @ 3000 doesn't mean yours can (sadly).
I know. The weird thing is that it can't even do the standard 1500 @ 1.36 VSoC without a double boot, but it can do 2400 @ 1.02 V at JEDEC without a problem. Common sense dictates that increased voltage with decreased frequency should result in much improved stability, but common sense goes down the toilet with my setup.

Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"
I'll do that once I have a little time to experiment. :) The problem is, without a second RAM kit and/or motherboard, there's no way to know for sure if it's the RAM hitting a wall, or the motherboard quality. The only thing I can rule out this way is the memory controller (if it's not some motherboard oddity preventing it from reaching 3000, that is).

Sorry - I didn't include the whole story. Out of the box with EXPO settings, I also had 1.36 SoC, and 1500. I had to manually change to force 3000. I dropped SoC back to standard and ran all of the stress tests again (core cycler, TM5, y-cruncher) to make sure it was still ok. Everything else with RAM is still EXPO standards as far as voltage/timings. I'm also running CO at -25 all core with reduced PPT, EDC, and TDC (95w TDP mode in the BIOS).

@tabascosauz is probably right that I just lucked out with a decent sample of the 7700x. I wish we were close so we could swap RAM to rule that out - I'd really like to see you able to get it all sorted. :(
That's nice of you. :) I know myself, I'll probably end up buying an extra RAM kit, or motherboard, or something eventually just to experiment. It's only that Christmas is coming, presents need to be bought, and I'm having the days as unpaid leave (forget about a bonus at my workplace), so it'll have to wait until spring time. :ohwell:

I'd really recommend trying what @tabascosauz is recommending to see if you can get past the need for a double boot @ 6000.

Also, as far as EXPO goes, it appears to me that it's just a WalMart version of XMP where they just crank up voltages and hope for the best. I may have gotten lucky with my specific CPU, but it wasn't plug and play by any means.

As a side note I also had a BIOS update that was supposed to 'Reduce Boot Time' and 'Increase Stability'. Post time dropped by 3 whole seconds (down to 27 seconds whoo-hoo), and while I had no stability problems before, the new update as least hasn't introduced any new instabilities.
I'll do that. I'm also waiting on BIOS updates, but MSi seems to be quite slow with my board. I guess the Pro series isn't too high up on their list of things to fix.

It's a shame that EXPO is such a cranky thing at this point. I didn't have too high expectations, but I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be a lot more difficult to use than XMP. I guess it's true with certain systems if you don't mind a high VSoC. I also took extreme care to choose the right kit for the board. It only supports single-sided kits of two at 6000 MHz, so I made sure to pick exactly that. Although, this specific kit isn't on the official support list - as a matter of fact, there's only 3 Samsung die 6000 kits on the list, the rest are all Hynix. Maybe it isn't the board, it isn't the RAM, but the combination of the two.

Another oddity with the board is that it sometimes forgets to enable RGB, and I can't even access RGB settings from the MSi Centre. A restart doesn't help, but if I turn the PC off and on again, it works.
 

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
7,456 (2.33/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃B550-I Strix
Cooling PA120+T30┃AXP120x67
Memory 64GB 6000CL30┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Display(s) 43" QN90B / 32" M32Q / 27" S2721DGF
Case Caselabs S3┃Lone Industries L5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000┃HDPlex
I'll do that once I have a little time to experiment. :) The problem is, without a second RAM kit and/or motherboard, there's no way to know for sure if it's the RAM hitting a wall, or the motherboard quality. The only thing I can rule out this way is the memory controller (if it's not some motherboard oddity preventing it from reaching 3000, that is).

That's nice of you. :) I know myself, I'll probably end up buying an extra RAM kit, or motherboard, or something eventually just to experiment. It's only that Christmas is coming, presents need to be bought, and I'm having the days as unpaid leave (forget about a bonus at my workplace), so it'll have to wait until spring time. :ohwell:

It's a shame that EXPO is such a cranky thing at this point. I didn't have too high expectations, but I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be a lot more difficult to use than XMP. I guess it's true with certain systems if you don't mind a high VSoC. I also took extreme care to choose the right kit for the board. It only supports single-sided kits of two at 6000 MHz, so I made sure to pick exactly that. Although, this specific kit isn't on the official support list - as a matter of fact, there's only 3 Samsung die 6000 kits on the list, the rest are all Hynix. Maybe it isn't the board, it isn't the RAM, but the combination of the two.

Hynix A should still be single rank I think?

The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs


BZ has a buying guide for DDR5 - like other OCers he seems to have strong opinions against not-Hynix. Makes sense, Samsung and Micron are really useless on the stronger Intel IMC

 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,723 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
Hynix A should still be single rank I think?

The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs


BZ has a buying guide for DDR5 - like other OCers he seems to have strong opinions against not-Hynix. Makes sense, Samsung and Micron are really useless on the stronger Intel IMC

My system isn't just slow to boot when EXPO is enabled. It doesn't boot at all unless I turn it off and on again. :(

I guess I'm stuck with it for a while now. Christmas is coming, so I'll hold myself back from buying a new motherboard or RAM kit at least until spring. I'll have a play with what you suggested, and hopefully, MSi issues some BIOS updates as well, one of which will potentially help my case... fingers crossed. :)
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
18,851 (3.08/day)
Location
UK\USA
Processor AMD 3900X \ AMD 7700X
Motherboard ASRock AM4 X570 Pro 4 \ ASUS X670Xe TUF
Cooling D15
Memory Patriot 2x16GB PVS432G320C6K \ G.Skill Flare X5 F5-6000J3238F 2x16GB
Video Card(s) eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX RX 6950XT RX-695XATBD9
Storage Sammy 860, MX500, Sabrent Rocket 4 Sammy Evo 980 \ 1xSabrent Rocket 4+, Sammy 2x990 Pro
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ LG 43UN700
Case Fractal Design Pop Air 2x140mm fans from Torrent \ Fractal Design Torrent 2 SilverStone FHP141x2
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V677 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 Infinity RS4000\Paradigm P Studio 20, Blue Yeti
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TX-750 \ Corsair RM1000X Shift
Mouse Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ Wooting Two HE
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
Hynix A should still be single rank I think?

The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs


BZ has a buying guide for DDR5 - like other OCers he seems to have strong opinions against not-Hynix. Makes sense, Samsung and Micron are really useless on the stronger Intel IMC


Yeah that's the video i used as a guide, i never had any luck with low end Corsair ram going all the way back to the Athlon days and glad i did not get it when i build my AM4 build too as it had issue's there as well.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Since then i'm 95% certain my crashes / hard reboots that don't even show up on the event logs are over-optimistic CO and boost
black screen crashes and sudden reboots are usually related to the SoC or undervolting
It all ties into the SoC stability in the end, as it's the RAM, PCI-E and USB ports all in one - when it errors it'd reset (the black screen, with or without it recovering) or have USB devices bing-bong

When you look at it together it comes back as "Oh yeah devices reset like they'd been unplugged and replugged, and the PC didnt like it when critical ones did that"


my original 2700x system had this all the time, and it came down to a faulty corsair RAM stick that went unstable around 35-40C at a mere 2667Mhz
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Looks like Asus owners get a free ride


5800x3D ownwers have PBO unlocked in the new 4408 BIOS

Changelog of course, tells us nothing
1670580151636.png



Found on HardwareLuxx (where they've already modded the BIOS to unlock even more settings)
1670580187060.png



and reddit
1670580240207.png
 

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
7,456 (2.33/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃B550-I Strix
Cooling PA120+T30┃AXP120x67
Memory 64GB 6000CL30┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Display(s) 43" QN90B / 32" M32Q / 27" S2721DGF
Case Caselabs S3┃Lone Industries L5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000┃HDPlex
Looks like Asus owners get a free ride


5800x3D ownwers have PBO unlocked in the new 4408 BIOS

Changelog of course, tells us nothing
View attachment 273682


Found on HardwareLuxx (where they've already modded the BIOS to unlock even more settings)
View attachment 273683

I've been running the 4303 beta for a couple days. CO and PBO.

Not sure if anything else has changed. New SMU version and AGESA 1208 now, but publicly it was just to address vulnerabilities. Obviously I will try again to break the FCLK 1900 wall but I expect nothing
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
A new BIOS setting got me all moist in my panties, i'll let you guys know if it works, or just a broken unlockable option

1670582982916.png

attempt 1: (it has a few choices)
nope
1670582969892.png


I've been running the 4303 beta for a couple days. CO and PBO.

Not sure if anything else has changed. New SMU version and AGESA 1208 now, but publicly it was just to address vulnerabilities. Obviously I will try again to break the FCLK 1900 wall but I expect nothing
4408 has the new stuff, not 4403

Okay so that features doesnt do anything

set what i previously had and CO doesnt seem to be working oddly enough (and it WAS working)

1.275V and 75C says stock
 
Top