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Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 vs Samsung 860 EVO

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Is it worth it? Could we see drastic perfomance change in using M.2 in comparison to regular SSD ?
 
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it entirely depends on what you want to do with it
if its mainly for games then I would say its not worth it IF the 960 costs more than the 860
because you would only save a few seconds in load time in most games while it doesnt give you more fps at all
but if you're doing a lot of read/writes of large files like real time video editing then get the 960
 

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You might not notice much of a difference now, but in the future as more programs are optimised for it, you'll see the benefits.

Also helps keep cable mess down in your PC, worth it for that alone imo.
 
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Is it worth it? Could we see drastic perfomance change in using M.2 in comparison to regular SSD ?
I don't like the thermal aspect of NVMe drives. The barely noticable speed increase compared to m.2 SATA is not worth putting another heat source straight on your Mobo. Also I've read something about NVMe drive cache: Once it fills up, performance drops to SATA levels.

I'm just running a nice m.2 860 EVO and it's 30% cheaper too.
 

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that 'heat source' uses 3W of power, just because one part of them heats up, doesnt mean they produce any meaningful amount of heat
 
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that 'heat source' uses 3W of power, just because one part of them heats up, doesnt mean they produce any meaningful amount of heat
well, 80+ celsius under load is pretty high for me.
 
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go nvme or go home, and play with yourself while you wait for your stuff to load :D
 
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Is it worth it? Could we see drastic perfomance change in using M.2 in comparison to regular SSD ?
Normal usage/gaming? Not a drastic change, no. But there definitely is a difference, more felt than seen. The more you (or your computer) multitask the better it comes out. Fast NVME system drive and larger SATA SSD is probably the optimal solution for now.
System does benefit from NVME SSD, games benefit little (with some exceptions). Price difference is quite steep though.
Also helps keep cable mess down in your PC, worth it for that alone imo.
This! :)
Also I've read something about NVMe drive cache: Once it fills up, performance drops to SATA levels.
Cache is far from being this straightforward. Different SSDs have a different amounts of cache, different setup for it and depending on the actual Flash on the drive the speed drop is not quite that steep. This applies to all SSD's, including SATA ones with a drop to rather low speeds. This is rarely a problem in normal usage though. As long as there is free space on the drive and you do not copy tens to hundreds of gigabytes constantly :)
 
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well, 80+ celsius under load is pretty high for me.

1. If its rated for the heat, thats fine
2. 80C means nothing as far as heating components nearby, the wattage is what matters there. 3W of heat can be dissipated by a good fart, so it wont heat any other components at all.
 
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Thank you all for answering. For what I understood from these answers is that it's not a big difference in the means of performance. I mostly use Photoshop, Illustrator, Adobe XD and VSCode.
 
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I mostly use Photoshop, Illustrator, Adobe XD and VSCode.
If you can spring for a 2 or 4TB unit, I would suggest you try using the 960 as a scratch disk for Photoshop/Illustrator.....I think you will be pleasantly surprised :D

My buddy did this recently and constantly raves about the difference (speed) it makes in his daily image-manipulation/creation processes... 'cause for in his business, time IS money !
 
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Without a benchmark or stopwatch, you'll never notice the difference. When folks create a 'test" to compare two thijngs, you'll notice that they choose 'tests' with no bearing on reality. I once saw one on you tube where the guy, in earnest trying to show how great his new SSD was, used "opening 100 windows in chrome" as his "test". Since I have never done such a thing, this test showed me nothing. Why are any of these significant ?

MS office Installation - OK you did that once in the life of your PC and you did something else in the minute it took to install. Y 5 year old Samsung 850 Pro did it in 55 seconds.

AV Run - takes from 50 to 54 seconds best to worst in TPUs test, it gets done in the background, who cares ?

iTunes Installation - 13 to 15 seconds best to worst, who cares.

Chrome Installation - 7 to 9 seconds, who cares.

Adobe Reader - 16 to 19 seconds, who cares

Photoshop startup - 4.1 to 4.7 seconds, who cares

Photoshop Editing - here we finally get to something where speed matters, well maybe. The range here was 46 to 89 seconds ... but the test is a script of a series if actions on very large files ... do you use such a script on an every day basis ? or do you press a ket=y between opening a file and doing each of the actions ..."open ten 50 megapixel images at the same time and, once done, process each image, one by one. The operations performed on each image were crop, move, auto levels, resize to 1024x768, and save for the web. " For most folks, the answer is yes thereby making the test non applicable to every day usage.

Watchdog 2 level loading - 45.7 to 46.3 seconds ... woot I'll save 0.6 seconds ! .... just think how much more progress I can make !

BF1 level loading - 16.8 to 19.7seconds ... Im upgrading, 2.9 seconds ! .... That's $18.97 per second gained between your 2 choices. That makes your time worth $62,275 an hour :) ... But hey it's only $55 ... if budget not an issue, then it's not an issue to get the 960.

I was so curious about this subject that we ran side by side tests with 5 users for 6 weeks. Desktop Test - One desktop equipped with twin SSds , twin SSHDs and 1 HD .... in the morning I'd go into BIOS change which device the box booted from.... users were asked to document "any slowness due to the new AV software" ... got one report (HD boot) "I can't be sure but boot up time seemed slow today". BTW Boot times were 21.2 seconds on the HD, SSHD was 16.5 and SSD was 15.6 secs. Laptop Test used two otherwise identical lappies, one with 120 GB SSD (OS Only) + 1 TB, 7200 rpm HD an the other with 1 TB , 7200 rpm SSHD. Same conditions, same users but went 6 months ... no one reported any differences tho i did have to clean the 120 GB SSD of excess file storage where folks would drop stuff info "my Folders" on C or just forget"clean C".

In the "real world", assuming folks boot the boxes in the morning, after pushing the button, most do other stuff. In one instance an employee who had one of our older boxes, asked me to get him an SSD to make it more productive. As his job title included 'engineering economics for construction projects", I asked him to "make his case" and if it had a positive ROI, I'd order it.

He estimated 30 seconds saved per day (his actual boot time was 24.5 seconds) for the slow boot time. At 330 work days per year, that was 2.75 hours or $247.50 which was what they were going for in those days. But installing it, and reloading OS and all the software would eat all that. However, I noted the time / actions next day (he sat right outside my office).

-Arrived at work took off jacket and started PC - 08:26
-Walked around said good morning to a few folks, made fresh coffee, asked what I had on agenda for him today, sat at desk, listened to phone messages, checked his imbox, garbbed some coffee, asked what I had on agenda for him that day, sat at desk, shook his mouse to wake up PC - 8:42 ... if his box took 16 minutes to boot it would be ready for him before he was ready for it.

This happens with most of what we do, scripts of 100 MS Word operation times don't matter as in real life, a kry needs to be pressed in between each one. back in the day, we used $1000 SCSI drives for AutoCAD but today, AutoCAD has completes it's "thing" before I get my next key press or mouse action in. In gaming, when i launch or game or move to a new level, I don't sit there staring at screen w/ stop watch running ... I'm grabbing a snack, taking a bio, reading my notes as to what I need, realoading web maps on my browser, chatting on discord ... again, game is ready for me well before I'm ready for it.

In short, on the desktop or lappie, I wouldn't stress about it. Will you "see a drastic performance change" ? Outside workstation apps in a "production environment" doing animation, video editing or rendering, the answer is Yes, the performance will pay for itself over time, not as quickly as you might think tho. Doing everyday stuff, even AutoCAD, the answer is no, you will never recover the investment in "saved time". No legal secretary ever prepared an extra Legal brief before 5:00 because he / she had an SSD. For the most part, doing every day stuff, the machine will spend more time waiting for you than you for it. That being said :) ... the cost difference is small enough that we are putting 250 / 500 GB 960 Evo NVMe's in just about every build not because we will see any perceptable increase in performance in every day tasks but cause the price difference is insignificant.

In your case, if you are using scripts with numerous large files to do your PhotoShop and other workstation type work, you will likely see a percetable but not really significant productivity improvement unless it's an every day / much of day activity. I'd suggest a pair in this instance (OS Programs for one and scratch for the other) making sure that MoBo / CPU will support the necessary PCI lines w/o impacting performance.
 
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"Is it worth it? Could we see drastic perfomance change in using M.2 in comparison to regular SSD ?"
1. Depending on each person, a 2 seconds more for some it is too much, for others it is nothing.
2. Drastic, no, a difference will be.

A month ago I switched from my 2Tb samsung 850pro sata to my new 1Tb 970pro nvme, I work a t least 4hrs per day with Photoshop+some games+browsing+movies = I feel my pc more snappiest, maybe around 15%, so no drastic, for me it is worth it.
 
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Thank you all, I have my answers.
 
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I had a 860 EVO SSD as my boot drive and then I changed to a 970 EVO. Did I notice a difference in performance? Nope. Why did I do it then? Well, I wanted a separate SSD for my games so when I went to get a second SSD I figured why not get an NVMe SSD for the boot drive and downgrade my existing SSD to be my game drive. Again, I noticed no performance difference.
 
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I'm not sure, but I think you can't turn on rapid mode on nvme samsung, but you can on 2.5"
 
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Most people suggest to stay away from Rapid Mode like the plague.
 
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May I know why?
Some people report data corruption if you don't have good clean stable power. If your power were to cut out during a write operation with Rapid Mode enabled the chances of data corruption are higher than without. And besides, Rapid Mode only contributes to faster benchmark numbers; not real world performance.
 
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No offense, but that seems ridiculous to me. Performance is roughly 10 times higher with rapid mode on, and about 1.6 times higher then any nvme drive. I recently got one and installed it into friends rig, and he couldn't be happier with it. Fastest thing on the market. If you reside in area with frequent power shortages, any kind of consumer ssd isn't advisable, or at least an UPS is.
 
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Even with Rapid Mode you're limited by the SSD itself. Think of Rapid Mode as a sort of write cache, so instead of writing directly to the SSD you're instead writing to system RAM. Sure, writing there is going to be very damn quick because obviously system RAM is very fast. But as with any and all caches you're going to reach the point where you'll have filled it up and then you're going to have to wait until the data that's already in the write cache is spooled out of the cache and then written to the real storage device, the SSD. Rapid Mode just makes for a rather large write cache, sometimes as big as 2 GBs depending upon how much system RAM you have in your system. Rapid Mode isn't some sort of magic that instantly makes your SSD faster.
 
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So, when copying is finished, 10 times faster, I can't unplug the drive? You sure you investigated this matter thoroughly?

What it really does is reading ahead, with a smart algorithm. It stores files into ram before you start copying them + it keeps often used files in ram. Obvisouly, RAM is smaller in size then your drive, so not all of it can be kept in RAM, so app tries to anticipate users move. The larger the cache, the bigger the cache hit rate. It may not speed up 100% of your copied files, but it will a portion of it, if it's coded properly. Maybe it will even dump old cache in favor of your new files you want copied. It's an awesome thing. During DOS days, we had norton cache 2.
 
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No, you cannot do that unless of course you want to kiss any and all data that's still in the Rapid Mode write cache goodbye. And yes, I know how Rapid Mode works! You can't get around the idea that NAND Flash Memory is only so fast when it comes to writing data to it.

Rapid Mode only masks that issue by making a write cache in system RAM to make it seem like your file copy is complete. You can see this by writing a large file to a Rapid Mode enabled SSD and then pulling up the Windows Resource Monitor (or the Windows 10 Task Manager) and looking at the activity of the SSD, you'll notice write operations going on behind the scenes regardless of the fact that your file copy is "done".
 
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