• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Samsung Exynos SoC with AMD RDNA GPU Destroys Competition, Apple 14 Bionic SoC Kneels

AleksandarK

Staff member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
1,012 (0.76/day)
Some time ago, Samsung and AMD announced that they will be building a mobile processor that utilizes AMD RDNA architecture for graphics processing. Samsung is readying its Exynos 2100 SoC and today we get to see its performance results in the first leaked benchmark. The new SoC design has been put through a series of GPU-only benchmarks that stress just the AMD RDNA GPU. Firstly there is Manhattan 3 benchmark where the Exynos SoC scored 181.8 FPS. Secondly, the GPU has scored 138.25 FPS in Aztek Normal and 58 FPS in Aztek High. If we compare those results to the Apple A14 Bionic chip, which scored 146.4 FPS in Manhattan 3, 79.8 FPS in Aztek Normal, and 30.5 FPS in Aztek High, the Exynos design is faster anywhere from 25% to 100%. Of course, given that this is only a leak, all information should be taken with a grain of salt.


View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
672 (1.74/day)
I am actually excited to see RDNA2 on the mobile space. But I am skeptical when this is paired with Exynos. I hope we won't see anymore of custom cores from Samsung, i.e. Mongoose. I rather they take the reference design from ARM and pair it with RDNA2.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
Messages
61 (0.27/day)
System Name Home
Processor 2700x
Motherboard Asrock Taichi x370
Cooling Thermalright True Spirit 140
Memory Patriot 32gb DDR4 3200mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 480 NITRO+
Storage Too many to count
Display(s) U2518D+u2417h
Case Chieftec
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 700W
Mouse Logitech g502 hero
Keyboard Logitech
Software Windows
It's not like Apple reinvented the wheel with Apple A14 Bionic, they blatantly borrowed/stole everything they had access too but they don't have access to latest technology.
As i read somewhere qualcomm GPU is based on bought IP from AMD many many years ago, so everything in mobile phones space is based on old Amd IP that got refreshed with whatever money qualcomm and probably apple put in R&D.
Samsung made a smart move updating it's GPU to the best architecture available except ray-tracing :D
 
Joined
May 27, 2017
Messages
11 (0.01/day)
it was expected, Desktop architectures are more powerful than mobile counterparts, For example the TEGRA x1 is still the most powerful mobile GPU with 256 Cores even after nearly 6 years of duty
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
1,940 (0.52/day)
System Name UltimaN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard MSI Mag B550M Mortar
Cooling Corsair Hydro H60 Noctua NF-F12 Push Pull
Memory G.SKill Ripjaws V 2x16GB DDR4 3600
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce GTX 1070 Super JetStream 2Ghz
Storage Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB nvme, 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD sata, 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm HDD sata
Display(s) LG 23MP68VQ-P IPS 75HZ 23" 1080p MONITOR
Case Aerocool Dead Silence Black Edition Cube
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200 Audio/Nvidia HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM650
Mouse Logitech G400S | Wacom Intuos CTH-480
Keyboard A4Tech G800V Gaming Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro
it was expected, Desktop architectures are more powerful than mobile counterparts, For example the TEGRA x1 is still the most powerful mobile GPU with 256 Cores even after nearly 6 years of duty
The one in nintendo switch?
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
62 (0.12/day)
I am actually excited to see RDNA2 on the mobile space. But I am skeptical when this is paired with Exynos. I hope we won't see anymore of custom cores from Samsung, i.e. Mongoose. I rather they take the reference design from ARM and pair it with RDNA2.
Given that they shutted down their custom design group a year ago, and 2100 using X1/A78/A55 cores, the next chip would definitely use Arm's reference cores.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
277 (0.09/day)
Location
Bulgaria
System Name Black Knight | White Queen
Processor Intel Core i9-10940X | Intel Core i7-5775C
Motherboard ASUS ROG Rampage VI Extreme Encore X299G | ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark S (White)
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black | Xigmatek Dark Knight SD-1283 Night Hawk (White)
Memory G.SKILL Trident Z RGB 4x8GB DDR4 3600MHz CL16 | Corsair Vengeance LP 4x4GB DDR3L 1600MHz CL9 (White)
Video Card(s) KFA2/Galax GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Hall of Fame Edition | Intel Iris Pro 6200
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB, 850 Pro 256GB, 840 Pro 256GB, WD Red 2/3/6TB, WD VelociRaptor 300GB/600GB/1TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG279Q 27'', PA246Q 24'' (10 bit, CCFL, 12 bit LUT, P-IPS) | Samsung JU7500 48'' TV
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar Essence STX | Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Enermax Revolution 1250W 85+ | Super Flower Leadex Gold 650W (White)
Mouse Razer Basilisk Ultimate, Razer Naga Trinity | Razer Mamba 16000
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2 (Orange switch) | Razer Ornata Chroma
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
Benchmark Scores The G.Skill is with Samsung B-die chips.
I remember the custom Mongoose chip was faster than the competitors in few instances, because of it's big cache. And the chip itself was big.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,774 (1.31/day)
System Name My all round PC
Processor i5 750
Motherboard ASUS P7P55D-E
Memory 8GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire 380 OC... sold, waiting for Navi
Storage 256GB Samsung SSD + 2Tb + 1.5Tb
Display(s) Samsung 40" A650 TV
Case Thermaltake Chaser mk-I Tower
Power Supply 425w Enermax MODU 82+
Software Windows 10
As far as I got anand's article, 5000 series mobile Ryzen is essentially 4000 series with just CPU parts going from Zen2 to Zen3, while GPU side of things is exactly the same, with 15% bump in max clocks (still Vega)

It was claimed that they could leave most part of the chip intact and just swap cores.

RDNA2 cores going into mobile chips will be disruptive.
I hope someone rolls out OLED notebook with Ryzen 6000 series (doesn't need to be 4k) for under 2000Euro.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
4,044 (1.38/day)
More cache as well, 5xxx mobile chips were aimed to "disrupt the market" & take even more market share especially given TGL-H with 8c/16t is nowhere to be seen. The next iteration is rumored to be zen3(+) with RDNA2 IGP on 6nm, that'll be even worse for Intel. At this point in time the only thing Intel's got going for them is the superior IGP & something like :shadedshu:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/l01p4t
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
744 (0.18/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
This could be a dev board with a huge heatsink. I'll wait for benchmarks of a phone or tablet.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
2,386 (3.03/day)
System Name Flavour of the month. I roll through hardware like it's not even mine (it often isn't).
Processor 3900X, 5800X, 2700U
Motherboard Aorus X570 Elite, B550 DS3H
Cooling Alphacool CPU+GPU soft-tubing loop (Laing D5 360mm+140mm), AMD Wraith Prism
Memory 32GB Patriot 3600CL17, 32GB Corsair LPX 3200CL16, 16GB HyperX 2400CL14
Video Card(s) 2070S, 5700XT, Vega10
Storage 1TB WD S100G, 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro, 1TB MX500, 500GB Hynix 2242 bastard thing, 16TB of rust + backup
Display(s) Dell SG3220 165Hz VA, Samsung 65" Q9FN 120Hz VA
Case NZXT H440NE, Silverstone GD04 (almost nothing original left inside, thanks 3D printer!)
Audio Device(s) CA DacMagic+ with Presonus Eris E5, Yamaha RX-V683 with Q Acoustics 3000-series, Sony MDR-1A
Power Supply BeQuiet StraightPower E9 680W, Corsair RM550, and a 45W Lenovo DC power brick, I guess.
Mouse G303, MX Anywhere 2, Another MX Anywhere 2.
Keyboard CM QuickFire Stealth (Cherry MX Brown), Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
Software W10
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
As far as I got anand's article, 5000 series mobile Ryzen is essentially 4000 series with just CPU parts going from Zen2 to Zen3, while GPU side of things is exactly the same, with 15% bump in max clocks (still Vega)

It was claimed that they could leave most part of the chip intact and just swap cores.

RDNA2 cores going into mobile chips will be disruptive.
This.

AMD haven't prioritised IGP performance at all for the entirety of Zen Mobile. My 2700U is still close enough in graphics performance to the latest Cezanne 5000-series, according to early reviews. No matter how much you dress it up with faster RAM and higher clocks, Vega8 was a downgrade from Vega10 in the first-gen Ryzen mobiles - and that's assuming you could even find a Vega8. There were so few of the 4800U that even many of the popular reviewers gave up waiting and reviewed the 4700U instead! With CL14 DDR4-2400 and (temporarily) unrestricted power budget, my three year old 2700U was pretty comparable to the 4700U, just because it had 10CUs to the 4700U's 7. Also, at 1080p and under, bandwidth is less of an issue than absolute latency, and most of the DDR4-3200 Renoir models are using cheap, high-latency RAM :(

The one and only improvement AMD have made to their IGPs in the last 3.5 years is moving to 7nm. All that brings to the table is higher clocks within any given cooling envelope, and I have to limit my 14nm Raven Ridge laptop to 22.5W for any long-term usage. 35W needed to reach 1100MHz+ on the graphics will overwhelm the cooling in under 10 minutes. The performance isn't exactly rocket-science maths though:

Raven Ridge Vega10: 10CU x 1100MHz = 11000​
Cezanne Vega 7 = 7CU x 1800MHz = 12600​

That's an incredible (/s) 14% improvement over three years and three generations of x700U SKU.

RDNA2 is sorely needed in AMD's APUs. They also need to focus on less die-area for CPU cores and more die area for graphics. Nobody using a 15W laptop is going to care about having 16 threads running - especially since the 15W limit is likely to dial back the clocks of those threads hard, anyway. What would make more sense would be to drop Rembrandt (6000-series) down to 6-cores and potentially free up enough die area to boost the graphics from 8 Vega CUs to 12-15 Navi CUs. Each CPU core is easily as big as three Vega CUs on the existing dies.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
121 (0.07/day)
This.

AMD haven't prioritised IGP performance at all for the entirety of Zen Mobile. My 2700U is still close enough in graphics performance to the latest Cezanne 5000-series, according to early reviews. No matter how much you dress it up with faster RAM and higher clocks, Vega8 was a downgrade from Vega10 in the first-gen Ryzen mobiles - and that's assuming you could even find a Vega8. There were so few of the 4800U that even many of the popular reviewers gave up waiting and reviewed the 4700U instead! With CL14 DDR4-2400 and (temporarily) unrestricted power budget, my three year old 2700U was pretty comparable to the 4700U, just because it had 10CUs to the 4700U's 7. Also, at 1080p and under, bandwidth is less of an issue than absolute latency, and most of the DDR4-3200 Renoir models are using cheap, high-latency RAM :(

The one and only improvement AMD have made to their IGPs in the last 3.5 years is moving to 7nm. All that brings to the table is higher clocks within any given cooling envelope, and I have to limit my 14nm Raven Ridge laptop to 22.5W for any long-term usage. 35W needed to reach 1100MHz+ on the graphics will overwhelm the cooling in under 10 minutes. The performance isn't exactly rocket-science maths though:

Raven Ridge Vega10: 10CU x 1100MHz = 11000​
Cezanne Vega 7 = 7CU x 1800MHz = 12600​

That's an incredible (/s) 14% improvement over three years and three generations of x700U SKU.

RDNA2 is sorely needed in AMD's APUs. They also need to focus on less die-area for CPU cores and more die area for graphics. Nobody using a 15W laptop is going to care about having 16 threads running - especially since the 15W limit is likely to dial back the clocks of those threads hard, anyway. What would make more sense would be to drop Rembrandt (6000-series) down to 6-cores and potentially free up enough die area to boost the graphics from 8 Vega CUs to 12-15 Navi CUs. Each CPU core is easily as big as three Vega CUs on the existing dies.

They don't focus on IGP because simply there is not enough bandwidth available (DDR4 speed limits) for huge performance uplift.
This will change with DDR5, but low end GPUs will already be better by then.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
2,386 (3.03/day)
System Name Flavour of the month. I roll through hardware like it's not even mine (it often isn't).
Processor 3900X, 5800X, 2700U
Motherboard Aorus X570 Elite, B550 DS3H
Cooling Alphacool CPU+GPU soft-tubing loop (Laing D5 360mm+140mm), AMD Wraith Prism
Memory 32GB Patriot 3600CL17, 32GB Corsair LPX 3200CL16, 16GB HyperX 2400CL14
Video Card(s) 2070S, 5700XT, Vega10
Storage 1TB WD S100G, 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro, 1TB MX500, 500GB Hynix 2242 bastard thing, 16TB of rust + backup
Display(s) Dell SG3220 165Hz VA, Samsung 65" Q9FN 120Hz VA
Case NZXT H440NE, Silverstone GD04 (almost nothing original left inside, thanks 3D printer!)
Audio Device(s) CA DacMagic+ with Presonus Eris E5, Yamaha RX-V683 with Q Acoustics 3000-series, Sony MDR-1A
Power Supply BeQuiet StraightPower E9 680W, Corsair RM550, and a 45W Lenovo DC power brick, I guess.
Mouse G303, MX Anywhere 2, Another MX Anywhere 2.
Keyboard CM QuickFire Stealth (Cherry MX Brown), Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
Software W10
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
They don't focus on IGP because simply there is not enough bandwidth available (DDR4 speed limits) for huge performance uplift.
This will change with DDR5, but low end GPUs will already be better by then.
This has been debunked so many times I'm tired of re-linking the various articles. My DDR4-2400 IGP is more than capable of matching DDR4-3200-equipped laptops, too.

Sure, at higher-resolutions bandwidth is a real problem, but laptop IGPs don't have the graphics horsepower to run at higher resolutions in the first place. We're aiming for 720p60 or 1080p30 where bandwidth doesn't make a huge amount of difference so long as you're running reasonably low absolute RAM latency and have enough bandwidth to shift the bottleneck over to the graphics CUs. Dual-channel DDR4-3200 is close enough in performance to both my 2400 CL14 and LPDDR4X 4266 that clearly a near-doubling of bandwidth doesn't get anywhere close to a doubling of performance. 15-25% at best, CU-for-CU and clock-for-clock.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
114 (0.09/day)
It's not like Apple reinvented the wheel with Apple A14 Bionic, they blatantly borrowed/stole everything they had access too but they don't have access to latest technology.
As i read somewhere qualcomm GPU is based on bought IP from AMD many many years ago, so everything in mobile phones space is based on old Amd IP that got refreshed with whatever money qualcomm and probably apple put in R&D.
Samsung made a smart move updating it's GPU to the best architecture available except ray-tracing :D

snapdragon cpu use adreno gpus, adreno = radeon
Probably they bought ati/amd ip many years ago, then bult their tech up on them. Actual amd IP is "little" different from ip qualcom bought, so i can bet a qualcom/samsung cpu with a new amd gpu will totally destroy eny apple soc with imagination tech. gpu
 

xantippe666

New Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
3 (0.00/day)
It's not like Apple reinvented the wheel with Apple A14 Bionic, they blatantly borrowed/stole everything they had access too but they don't have access to latest technology.
As i read somewhere qualcomm GPU is based on bought IP from AMD many many years ago, so everything in mobile phones space is based on old Amd IP that got refreshed with whatever money qualcomm and probably apple put in R&D.
Samsung made a smart move updating it's GPU to the best architecture available except ray-tracing :D
Qualcomm ADRENO = RADEON (previously ATI Imageon), AMD sold off, in hindsight, most lucrative business ever...
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
469 (0.14/day)
Qualcomm ADRENO = RADEON (previously ATI Imageon), AMD sold off, in hindsight, most lucrative business ever...
AMD only selling the mobile GPU IP. even in mobile space only having the GPU IP will not going to bring in big money. just look at Imagination.

It's not like Apple reinvented the wheel with Apple A14 Bionic, they blatantly borrowed/stole everything they had access too but they don't have access to latest technology.
As i read somewhere qualcomm GPU is based on bought IP from AMD many many years ago, so everything in mobile phones space is based on old Amd IP that got refreshed with whatever money qualcomm and probably apple put in R&D.
Samsung made a smart move updating it's GPU to the best architecture available except ray-tracing :D
but despite having the best tech they still cannot equip all their smartphone with their own SoC.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
89 (0.06/day)
As far as I'm aware they are using Vega gpu, not RDNA or RDNA2. Its a custom Vega gpu with some RDNA features in it. But even existing mobile gpu's are using old AMD patents, since AMD decided to sell a ton of it patents about a decade ago when they were struggling for money.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
31 (0.02/day)
System Name "I want upgrade"
Processor i5 3570k
Motherboard Asrock z77 Extreme 4
Cooling Gammaxx 400
Memory Corsair Vengeace 2x4gb 2133Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 580 Pulse 8gb
Storage Kingston HyperX 128gb, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) Chimei 24LH
Case Thermaltake Commander MS-1 Snow
Power Supply Corsair GS600
Mouse Standard cheap usb mice
Keyboard Standard cheap usb keyboard
Im really excited for this, since my region got crappy exynos.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
31 (0.02/day)
Another just for saying



Why make the same article 10 month after ?
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
1,533 (0.51/day)
This has been debunked so many times I'm tired of re-linking the various articles. My DDR4-2400 IGP is more than capable of matching DDR4-3200-equipped laptops, too.
LOLcalmdown

Sure, at higher-resolutions bandwidth is a real problem, but laptop IGPs don't have the graphics horsepower to run at higher resolutions in the first place. We're aiming for 720p60 or 1080p30 where bandwidth doesn't make a huge amount of difference so long as you're running reasonably low absolute RAM latency and have enough bandwidth to shift the bottleneck over to the graphics CUs. Dual-channel DDR4-3200 is close enough in performance to both my 2400 CL14 and LPDDR4X 4266 that clearly a near-doubling of bandwidth doesn't get anywhere close to a doubling of performance. 15-25% at best, CU-for-CU and clock-for-clock.
And if the GPUs got bigger, as you desire, then they would be capable of higher resolution gaming, and would become bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, which is why AMD hasnt done it. You defanged your OWN argument with this little tidbit.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
4,044 (1.38/day)
It'd be great if Samsung allows other competitors access to their chips, frankly the near monopoly of QC on high end phones is just unbearable & I'm not even talking about their baseband (royalty?) shenanigans!
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
1,701 (0.45/day)
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Miami
Processor Ryzen 3800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling Ek Velocity/ 2x 280mm Radiators/ Alphacool fullcover
Memory F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC
Video Card(s) SAPPHIRE NITRO+ Radeon RX 5700 XT
Storage 1TB WD M.2 SSD/ 2TB WD SN750/ 4TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) DELL AW3420DW / HP ZR24w
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Gold 1000W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar/Glorious Model O-
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum
Software Windows 10 Pro
it was expected, Desktop architectures are more powerful than mobile counterparts, For example the TEGRA x1 is still the most powerful mobile GPU with 256 Cores even after nearly 6 years of duty

But still useless because it sucked up battery life like it was no one's business.
 
Top