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SERIOUSLY FRUSTRATED. WC set up

aleicgrant

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#1
Hey all

I need some help. I have pulled out all my hair and about to lose it....

I have a water cooled rig I have put together and for the life of me having some sort of short that I cannot find. This is after going through the build at least 10 times.

Here is the rig

i7 2600k
MSI Z68 GD80
16gb Corsair mem
XFX 1250 Black Edition PSU
XFX 3GB 7970 Black edition.

Water cooling equipment:

Swiftech Komodo full coverage block
2 x RX360 Rads
Koolance RP-1000BK pump and res combo with fan controller
6 x 120mm Gental Typhoon 15 Fans
Koolance CPU block

So here is the problem. With the Komodo block installed on the 7970, no boot, power or anything.

take the card out, boots (has onboard video)

Run the card with the oem fan........boot

Plugged three different lower grade cards in same slot........boot

Take the block off and run the 7970 just by itself for a few second.........boot

I have checked everything, and I mean everything in terms of connections.

what am I missing that causes this not to boot when the gpu block is on.

INSANITY !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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#2
A similar problem happened to me some time ago, are you sure you are not overtightening the bolts on the waterblock? It seems a non issue but sometimes that creates a lot of problems.
Or maybe the fan header needs to be jumped even though there is no fan.

Also man could you post a picture of the swifty komodo? I've been waiting for them, still no availability here in EU.
 

aleicgrant

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#3

sneekypeet

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#4
My guess is that some part of the copper block is on a resistor or similarly dead grounding the card. Even the back plate for that matter.
 

Huddo93

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#5
My guess is that some part of the copper block is on a resistor or similarly dead grounding the card. Even the back plate for that matter.
Yeah, I agree. Something along those lines would be my guess. Its the only thing I can personally think of, as to why the block causes the card not to boot.
 

qubit

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#6
Is there a shim or some insulation missing perhaps? Your waterblock is definitely shorting out the card.

Also, it's really dangerous to run a graphics card or CPU without a cooler even for a few seconds. The GPU/CPU will reach very high temperatures literally within a second or two and even if it runs, you're putting cumulative damage on it. Don't ever do it.
 

aleicgrant

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#7
Thanks to everyone for your help, concern etc. I really appreciate it

ok some more follow up.

After almost 24 hours of non stop testing and adjustments we finally have the block installed and bootable. We had to do some machining of our own and adjustments to each of the screws. I am not sure if this is going to be a problem for others but if just ONE of the screws is too tight it gave us a ground out. I cant tell you how tedious a process this was. The block itself was still ever so slightly touching a resistor so we did some additional polishing

After all this I forgot to attach the lead for the light but I am not even going to attempt to open the block up again...... pics included.

The last speed bump to my build is to now figure out why my ssd wont run in ahci and only boot when set to ide.



 
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#8
Pump is too high, thats why i forgot about my res/pump/bay thingy. Also always screw only with the strength of the tip of the fingers
 

aleicgrant

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#9
I am running two rads (top and bottom) not sure where else I could put the pump considering its designed to be bay mounted. suggestions
 

qubit

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#10
From your fix, it sounds like there's a design fault with the block and it doesn't surprise me. It looks like there should either be more clearance or an insulating pad covering in a few places.

I had a three-fan, three-slot Arctic Cooling cooler for my HD 2900 XT (yes, it was ages ago) that bent the card when the screws were tightened. I tried two samples of this cooler and they were both the same, so it was a design fault.

While the cooling performance and noise were great, I ended up getting a refund on them and going back to the stock cooler. I upgraded that card a while later anyway, so the whole thing was moot.
 
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#11
From your fix, it sounds like there's a design fault with the block and it doesn't surprise me. It looks like there should either be more clearance or an insulating pad covering in a few places.
I would agree there with this, but would like to verify that this was a reference 7970.

If so then definitely the block was the problem. You shouldn't have to sand and drill your waterblock, unless you're making one from scratch. :twitch:
 
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#12
The last speed bump to my build is to now figure out why my ssd wont run in ahci and only boot when set to ide.
If you installed win7 before setting the ssd to ahci then you have to:

(recommended) go to bios set ahci mode then instal a fresh copy of win7 and your done.

Second option (not so recommended):

1. Exit all Windows-based programs.
2. Click Start, type regedit in the Start Search box, and then press ENTER.
3. If you receive the User Account Control dialog box, click Continue.
4. Locate and then click the following registry subkey: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Msahci
5. In the right pane, right-click Start in the Name column, and then click Modify.
6. In the Value data box, type 0, and then click OK.
7. On the File menu, click Exit to close Registry Editor



Hope it helps. ;)
 

aleicgrant

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#13
it did and thank you !!!
 

gabe rouchon

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#14
Hello to all,

This is Gabe, CEO at Swiftech.

Aleic posted on several forums, including ours. As soon as we found out about his difficulties, we asked him to contact us for technical support. Instead, he decided to troubleshoot this himself.

We have tried to contact him ever since his last report, in order to clearly understand the issue, and only today our engineer was able to speak with him. Unfortunately, very little practical details were gathered from this conversation from what I understand. I wish I had spoken with him personnaly, but unfortunately I am not at work today. From the reports I am getting, it would appear that some of the statements he made are not entirely accurate, for instance it remains unclear what he meant by "We had to do some machining of our own" as he was unable to confirm what was done exactly.

I am following this issue personnaly, and will get to the bottom of it; I will report here when we have all the clear facts.
 
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#15
Backing up what Gabe says we have tried to connect but through missed calls and me traveling it has not happened. I did speak to his engineer today and will be doing so again tomorrow.

I have to state that I think this is very much an isolated incident (more likely just me period) however the fact that they are chasing down as vigorously as they are certain backs up the commitment to quality.
 
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#16
Hello to all,

This is Gabe, CEO at Swiftech.

Aleic posted on several forums, including ours. As soon as we found out about his difficulties, we asked him to contact us for technical support. Instead, he decided to troubleshoot this himself.

We have tried to contact him ever since his last report, in order to clearly understand the issue, and only today our engineer was able to speak with him. Unfortunately, very little practical details were gathered from this conversation from what I understand. I wish I had spoken with him personnaly, but unfortunately I am not at work today. From the reports I am getting, it would appear that some of the statements he made are not entirely accurate, for instance it remains unclear what he meant by "We had to do some machining of our own" as he was unable to confirm what was done exactly.

I am following this issue personnaly, and will get to the bottom of it; I will report here when we have all the clear facts.
WOW! A CEO contacting a customer... now that's customer service! :toast:
 
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#17
not only once but three times. And when he was out sick today he had his head engineer follow up. How's that for customer service
 

gabe rouchon

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#18
Here is an update of sorts.. other than a brief conversation between Aleic and Stephen (our thermal engineer), I haven't been able to personnaly connect with him for more than 30 seconds yet.. so I really have no feed-back to report.

But since I was concerned about these early shipments, I contacted all early adopters, and so far received one response.

Here is what Charles of Saint Charles (IL) an early adopter of the product for his XFX 7970 Black Edition had to say:

Upon first getting the block and looking over what was included, I was blown away. You get so much for your money and the quality is top notch. I actually purchased the komodo to replace a aquacomputer waterblock that I had already installed on my 7970. A week or so before placing the order I removed the aqua block and noticed that almost half of the memory chips were not making contact. The aqua block doesn’t use thermal pads to mate the memory chips to the block, it’s supposed to sit flush with thermal paste as a medium between them. I had concerns with this design from the get go because in the past I have used danger den blocks on a pair of 470’s with a similar design and also the same issue. After a few days of having the komodo attached to the card, I pulled it off to inspect how it was attaching and was pleased to see imprints of the chips in the thermal pads. In terms of cooling, it’s about on par with the aqua computer block, but I have a feeling most of that was due to the memory not actually making contact and transferring it’s heat. My card has a factory overclock applied to it and normally the highest temps I see at full load while gaming is 41-42c, but it has been a little higher since the weather has been getting warmer.

Going back to the visual aspect of the komodo, it’s a great looking block! Everytime I open my case to change something around, I always find myself taking a moment to look at the card/block. Because it is FULL coverage, there has been no warping of the PCB. The included backplate is such a great thing to have included with the kit. The aquacomputer block would warp the heck out of the card, it was almost a balancing act. The only thing I am a little disappointed about, and this is a small issue, is the look of the single slot bracket included. Prior I had the EK single bracket installed and theirs was a shiny silver like the oem one. The one included was a dull gray bracket that reminded me of an old packard bell case. But in this case, it’s function over form.

I’ve owned Danger Den, EK & aquacomputer gpu blocks and this is by far my favorite. I honestly could not be happier with the performance of the block, the ease of installation, fitment and just the overall quality.

[Edit] As an early adopter, Charles received one of the very first PCI brackets that was unpainted. Upon official product release, on April 6, all the PCI brackets have a beautiful black paint coat on'em! :)
 
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#19
If its the dual fan XFX black edition card they might have just used different transistors on the card allowing the WB to short it.

Sounds like a case of custom card fitted with cooler designed for reference cards.

"The Black Edition’s PCB may look like the reference design but supposedly XFX has embedded a 2oz copper layer within to help with heat dissipation. VRM components have supposedly also been upgraded to a slightly higher spec in order to increase their longevity while the core is handpicked for overclocking headroom."

That looks like your problem right there.

From http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-black-edition-double-dissipation-review.html
 

LGV

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#20
I dont read it all, but noticed "XFX 3GB 7970 Black edition
The Black Edition’s PCB may look like the reference design but supposedly XFX has embedded a 2oz copper layer within to help with heat dissipation. VRM components have supposedly also been upgraded to a slightly higher spec in order to increase their longevity while the core is handpicked for overclocking headroom."

phanbuey beat me :)
 
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gabe rouchon

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#21
If its the dual fan XFX black edition card they might have just used different transistors on the card allowing the WB to short it.

Sounds like a case of custom card fitted with cooler designed for reference cards.

"The Black Edition’s PCB may look like the reference design but supposedly XFX has embedded a 2oz copper layer within to help with heat dissipation. VRM components have supposedly also been upgraded to a slightly higher spec in order to increase their longevity while the core is handpicked for overclocking headroom."

That looks like your problem right there.

From http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-black-edition-double-dissipation-review.html
I dont read it all, but noticed "XFX 3GB 7970 Black edition
The Black Edition’s PCB may look like the reference design but supposedly XFX has embedded a 2oz copper layer within to help with heat dissipation. VRM components have supposedly also been upgraded to a slightly higher spec in order to increase their longevity while the core is handpicked for overclocking headroom."

phanbuey beat me :)
Both Aleic and Charles (the testimonial I reprinted) have the same card. Aleic had issues, Charles didn't. I still couldn't connect with Aleic yesterday, and left a message for him.. I do have a theory, but it is pure speculation at this point. These cards have pretty long capacitor & vr's lead wires sticking out at the back of the card. Sometimes these are not cut even, and/or sometimes they could be bent. Maybe one lead wire on Aleic's card was touching the back-plate? There are cutouts on the back plate to provide clearance for these, and there is a mylar insulation covering the entire surface of the back-plate. Maybe an extra long lead wire pocked the insulation? Again it is pure speculation. If Aleic had called for support like I asked him, the first thing I would have asked him would have been to install the block without the pack-plate, and we would have known immediately if this was the problem instead of him wasting 24 hours in trying to troubleshoot the issue..

Meanwhile, I received another testimonial following the circular email I sent out to early adopters; here is what Eduardo from San DiegO (CA) had to say:

The installation of the Swiftech Komodo 7970 on my Asus 7970 reference model was successful. I had two small concerns. I apparently was shipped extra screws, which at first made me think I hadn’t secured the block properly. I double and tripled checked to make sure I didn’t miss any screw holes required for the installation (I didn’t). The other concern was with the screws that have the coarse thread, which screw into the black acetal. Fastening these coarse thread screws required more force than I would have liked. If would have been nice if fine thread machine screws like the ones used on the base plate (copper) would be used for fastening to the housing (Black POM acetal). I would also suggest a polished or plated pci braket as opposed to the dull gray one included but it’s very minor annoyance. I had no issues with the extra long capacitor or any unwanted contacted between the Komodo and the components on the 7970 . When I was done with the rest of my water loop I fired up the system with no issues.

The product is great and goes well with my case Obsidian 550D. My temps on load using MSI’s Kombustor (extreme burn-in) hover at 58 C this was on a warm 70 F day in San Diego. Overall I am very satisfied, good job on a great product.

If I were to rate the Komodo HD 7970 I would give it 5 stars. It is a very nice block that performs well.


[Edit] Early adopters received an unpainted PCI bracket. Production is shipping with a beautiful black paint. We are sending replacement brackets to both Charles and Eduardo.
 
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#22
And this is why I use mostly Swiftech products!
 

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#23
this looks likea job for TAPE mainly our good non conductive buddy DUCTAPE
 
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#24
I still love my swiftech setup, no leaks and only one change of coolant and with my 5870 at 1.375 volts on the core and running 1073Mhz my GPU stays around 39C, or about 5F above ambient room temp, and it is in line after my CPU.

this looks likea job for TAPE mainly our good non conductive buddy DUCTAPE

Ductape is conductive, if you don't believe me get a foot long piece and twist it up and put it in a light socket. (Not really)