• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Should owners of processors affected by security problems receive compensation?

Should owners of processors affected by security problems receive compensation?

  • Accept returns for the original price

    Votes: 1,929 18.5%
  • A percentage equal to the performance lost

    Votes: 1,169 11.2%
  • Fixed compensation in the 10% range

    Votes: 411 3.9%
  • Offer free replacements

    Votes: 2,173 20.8%
  • Get a discount on the next-generation CPU

    Votes: 2,209 21.2%
  • Not as long as fixes are provided

    Votes: 2,535 24.3%

  • Total voters
    10,426
  • Poll closed .

trickson

OH, I have such a headache
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
7,595 (1.07/day)
Location
Planet Earth.
System Name Ryzen TUF.
Processor AMD Ryzen7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF X570 Gaming Plus
Cooling Noctua
Memory Gskill RipJaws 3466MHz
Video Card(s) Asus TUF 1650 Super Clocked.
Storage CB 1T M.2 Drive.
Display(s) 73" Soney 4K.
Case Antech LanAir Pro.
Audio Device(s) Denon AVR-S750H
Power Supply Corsair TX750
Mouse Optical
Keyboard K120 Logitech
Software Windows 10 64 bit Home OEM
Simple, I've had dealings with the civil legal system. Experience and knowledge of case law.

You would have to prove Intel was a party to the damage done, either by negligence or by willful action. Neither applies.

But that is the point I was trying to make above. Meltdown is effectively patched and solved. No longer a serious problem. Spectre affects ALL CPU's, not just AMD, Intel, etc., etc.

That is not the way it works. Meltdown and Spectre are not design defects or flaws. They are vulnerabilities that can exploit the normal functionality of the hardware in question. As such any claim against a company would need to be backed up by evidence that some form of negligence or willful act was taken by the company in question in regards to the the act of attack. That has not happened and is very unlikely as the vulnerabilities that are difficult to patch have been around for 25 years and have no known exploits. The defense attorneys will argue that because they have been around for so long and were unforeseen, they are not liable. They could argue statues of limitations, which has worked in past cases, or they could argue that they did not carry out the attack, nor could reasonably prevent it. There are mountains of arguments that could be used as a valid defense.

No company is going to offer refunds, credits, discounts or anything like that. Not the way the world works, and for good reason.
OMG are you trying to litigate Hypothetical scenarios with a layman? ? LMFAO! And some how I feel you are wrong I have sued in civil court and proof is all you need and IF proof exist then case closed!
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
5,379 (1.04/day)
Location
Gougeland (NZ)
System Name Cumquat 2021
Processor AMD RyZen R7 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus Strix X670E - E Gaming WIFI
Cooling Deep Cool LT720 + CM MasterGel Pro TP + Lian Li Uni Fan V2
Memory 32GB GSkill Trident Z5 Neo 6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ OC RX6800 16GB DDR6 2270Cclk / 2010Mclk
Storage 1x Adata SX8200PRO NVMe 1TB gen3 x4 1X Samsung 980 Pro NVMe Gen 4 x4 1TB, 12TB of HDD Storage
Display(s) AOC 24G2 IPS 144Hz FreeSync Premium 1920x1080p
Case Lian Li O11D XL ROG edition
Audio Device(s) RX6800 via HDMI + Pioneer VSX-531 amp Technics 100W 5.1 Speaker set
Power Supply EVGA 1000W G5 Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core Wired
Keyboard Logitech G915 Wireless
Software Windows 11 X64 PRO (build 23H2)
Benchmark Scores it sucks even more less now ;)
As far as I can see Intel wasn't privy to the vulnerability until the end of last year by which time it was far to late to put a stop on anything being released. They have tried to mitigate it by putting out patches and have been forthcoming about the problem as for older CPU's that have the vulnerability I don't see this as a intel problem they didn't know when baking the silicon that there was a problem but unfortunately it does affect every CPU of Intels from Core 2 through to todays releases so no I don't think any sort of compo should be paid out but the next release should also not contain the vulnerability either
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
2,329 (0.46/day)
Processor Intel i7 970 // Intel i7 2600K
Motherboard Asus Rampage III Formula // Asus P8P67 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CNPS9900MaxB // Zalman CNPS11X
Memory GSkill 2133 12GB // Corsair V 2400 32GB
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX1080 // MSI GTX1070
Storage Samsung 870EVO // Samsung 840P
Display(s) HP w2207h
Case CoolerMaster Stacker 830se // Lian Li PC-9F
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Seasonic X 850w Gold // EVGA 850w G2
Mouse Logitech G502SE HERO, G9
Keyboard Dell
Software W10 Pro 22H2
Show me the money!
 

trickson

OH, I have such a headache
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
7,595 (1.07/day)
Location
Planet Earth.
System Name Ryzen TUF.
Processor AMD Ryzen7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF X570 Gaming Plus
Cooling Noctua
Memory Gskill RipJaws 3466MHz
Video Card(s) Asus TUF 1650 Super Clocked.
Storage CB 1T M.2 Drive.
Display(s) 73" Soney 4K.
Case Antech LanAir Pro.
Audio Device(s) Denon AVR-S750H
Power Supply Corsair TX750
Mouse Optical
Keyboard K120 Logitech
Software Windows 10 64 bit Home OEM
Ok

Like Small Claims? Burden of proof is a bit different in a municipal or county court VS a Federal court.
Wouldn't be a Federal case if it is a citizen taking them to task!
 

trickson

OH, I have such a headache
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
7,595 (1.07/day)
Location
Planet Earth.
System Name Ryzen TUF.
Processor AMD Ryzen7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF X570 Gaming Plus
Cooling Noctua
Memory Gskill RipJaws 3466MHz
Video Card(s) Asus TUF 1650 Super Clocked.
Storage CB 1T M.2 Drive.
Display(s) 73" Soney 4K.
Case Antech LanAir Pro.
Audio Device(s) Denon AVR-S750H
Power Supply Corsair TX750
Mouse Optical
Keyboard K120 Logitech
Software Windows 10 64 bit Home OEM
See again this is really a non issue to be honest, No one has been or ever will be affected by this flaw if so there would have been some kind of reaction from some one, It's a non issue for 100% of the customers. You can argue that now.
So really this so called flaw is;
1: Moot
2:Non-sequitur
3: over for me.
Peace out! :peace:
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
2,180 (0.53/day)
Location
Deez Nutz, bozo!
System Name Rainbow Puke Machine :D
Processor Intel Core i5-11400 (MCE enabled, PL removed)
Motherboard ASUS STRIX B560-G GAMING WIFI mATX
Cooling Corsair H60i RGB PRO XT AIO + HD120 RGB (x3) + SP120 RGB PRO (x3) + Commander PRO
Memory Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 2 x 8GB 3200MHz DDR4 C16
Video Card(s) Zotac RTX2060 Twin Fan 6GB GDDR6 (Stock)
Storage Corsair MP600 PRO 1TB M.2 PCIe Gen4 x4 SSD
Display(s) LG 29WK600-W Ultrawide 1080p IPS Monitor (primary display)
Case Corsair iCUE 220T RGB Airflow (White) w/Lighting Node CORE + Lighting Node PRO RGB LED Strips (x4).
Audio Device(s) ASUS ROG Supreme FX S1220A w/ Savitech SV3H712 AMP + Sonic Studio 3 suite
Power Supply Corsair RM750x 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular
Mouse Corsair M65 RGB FPS Gaming (White)
Keyboard Corsair K60 PRO RGB Mechanical w/ Cherry VIOLA Switches
Software Windows 11 Professional x64 (Update 23H2)
the scare-mongering that puts everyone on their heels are overrated IMO. If it doesn't affect you in any way, I don't see a solid reason to go out & buy a Ryzen chip + AM4 board just because Intel admitted their whole lineup is affected by 2 vulnerabilities that just got discovered.
 

Balou

New Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
I think (if possible) they need to wait with presenting a new type of processor and make new versions of the 1150 1151 1155 etc. sockets whi h do not have these flaws. And revise their design from scratch to make sure that no further flaws can be found. This way you are not forced to buy a new pc or new motherboard (for DIY).
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,366 (3.70/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
The socket isn;t the issue though, its the CPU itself. They will not go back on an architectural level and fix this for old CPUs. Its microcode and OS.. that's its. Moving forward it will be addressed... for example, With Zen+ AMD is implementing a microcode fix. However, since Zen2 is taped out yet, they mentioned they will make architectural changes in it.
 
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
2,207 (0.87/day)
I have still not had a fix for win 10 (64 bit). It keeps installing then de-installing everyday. What most if not all users has failed to see what is happening, my write cycle of my 850 Pro has gone up from 12.5TB written to 12.7TB written & is still rising, because I still don't have any update.

I have repeated install/uninstall everyday & it sometimes happening twice in one day.

The good news win 7 (64 bit) is fixed as I had a problem here too on my other computer.

So, am I due compensation for reducing the life span of my SSD.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,944 (0.65/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
Where are you getting those numbers? That's a gross over-exaggeration of the effect the patches have on performance...

It's a software patch that causes the effect on performance, not a problem with the hardware itself. Not a defect/flaw. A vulnerability.

False. Enterprise customers can expect exactly the loss he described. Do you know any server guys in fortune 500s? I do. A big Gray one took 23% hit on their virtuals. 90% of their servers are VMs. I'd sure hate to have the workloads that have 30%+ impact... I'd be livid.

And..false, again. If a chip needs a software patch that eats performance to fix, then it is a BIG flaw. I guess the old phenom TLB bug wasn't a flaw, either. Just because the flaw doesn't output incorrect data doesn't mean it's not a flaw. It's a security flaw.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.48/day)
I'd sure hate to have the workloads that have 30%+ impact... I'd be livid.
Like crying over spilled milk. It wasn't an intentional vulnerability. That's life.
And..false, again. If a chip needs a software patch that eats performance to fix, then it is a BIG flaw.
Incorrect. That describes a vulnerability, not a flaw.
I guess the old phenom TLB bug wasn't a flaw, either.
Yes, that is a flaw. It is a defect in how the CPU functions.
Just because the flaw doesn't output incorrect data doesn't mean it's not a flaw. It's a security flaw.
Again, you are describing a vulnerability, not a flaw.
(feeling like a broken record)
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,944 (0.65/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
Like crying over spilled milk. It wasn't an intentional vulnerability. That's life.

Incorrect. That describes a vulnerability, not a flaw.

Yes, that is a flaw. It is a defect in how the CPU functions.

Again, you are describing a vulnerability, not a flaw.
(feeling like a broken record)
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
598 (0.09/day)
Location
Germany,Hannover
System Name ChaosMoes
Processor Intel® Core™ i5-3570K no OC yet
Motherboard Asrock Z77 Extreme4
Cooling Scythe Ninja 3 Rev. B
Memory 16GB 2xPatriot DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1866 Kit (PV38G186C9KRD, Viper 3 Venom Red)
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 590 Phantom Gaming X 8GB GDDR5 188€@13.07.19 Amazon Sale
Storage Samsung 840 Pro SSD 256GB, + ST32000645NS Seagate Constellation 109€ reichelt.de 2012
Display(s) 27" Phillips PHL 276E9Q 189€ @ Saturn(Germany) 1.09.2018
Case Zaria A20 !!!THANK YOU TECHPOWERUP.COM!!!
Audio Device(s) onboard Sound
Power Supply SeaSonic Prime Ultra Titanium 750W
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Microsoft SideWinder X4 Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
well seems like the IT industy is the only one where such a "problem" will not lead to any problems for the manufacturer... imagine creating a flawed product in the first place you get destroyed for every litte cumble

not for this :-/
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
104 (0.02/day)
People who actually get affected, as in people have their security breached should get way more compensation than just the cost of a CPU.

For everyone else, if there is no performance penalties and fixes are provided in a timely fashion, there should be no need for compensation. If there is performance penalties, there should be full or partial refunds available depending on how severe the problem is.

Nothing is bug free and it is impossible to hold any company responsible to all problems but when problems do arise, there should be a appropriate response to the issue in a timely fashion.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,985 (4.60/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Not sure if I am considered dumb for buying the 8700k or not after I knew about this issue, but the $329 free ship no tax offer from Monoprice was too hard to beat, and $99 MSI Z370 SLI Plus (competes with $300 boards)... just yeah very lovely prices... I'm just gamer guy, don't really do anything else, don't even know how to run a VM, so I don't think any of this matters to me, minus maybe like a 1-2% performance hit which I consider negligible since I am at 5ghz anyway. Am I right in assuming I made the right move considering the prices I paid? Or should I consider refunding since I am still within 30 day frame?
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
156 (0.04/day)
System Name throttlemeister
Processor i7-3770k @4.8GHz 1.390 vcore
Motherboard z77x-ud5h
Cooling xspc ax240+ xspc ex240 rad with d5 vario pump
Memory corsair veangeance 1866MH ram
Video Card(s) x2 GTX 660's in sli
Storage a 1tb and a 2tb seagate barracuda and a 128 ocz vertex 450 ssd
Case inwin GRone grey soon to be a milk crate or a toolbox as all these cases are too small
Audio Device(s) diamond usb xs71u 7.1hd digital audio device
Power Supply rosewill 850w xtreme series power supply
Software windows 8.1 pro ubuntu 13.10 and mac os x 10.9 maverick
Benchmark Scores http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7941791 unmodded gpu's way higher when modded
I believe we should no get compensation as when you buy hardware its at your own risk and when you make profits they don't get a piece of that and when they find vulnerabilities and work to patch it we don't normally receive compensation and so why should that change? Buying tech we know there is a risk for flaws and when we buy tech there's a nonverbal agreement that any such vulnerabilities would be attempted to be addressed and so this is part of the cycle.

We wanted convenience and bragged and bragged about having it and now people want to jump ship after seeing what it cost them. Wait for a solution as with any flaw and hope they find a way to keep sensitive information out of reach.
 
Top