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Should we have a seperate "physx" section in our system specs?

Physx specs?

  • sounds good

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • probably a waste of W1zzard's time and effort

    Votes: 27 69.2%

  • Total voters
    39

Solaris17

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#26
That's what I mean, an 8400 is more powerful, we know this much, so it should be able to do more physx processing in the same time, increasing your IQ..

Obviously Crossfire or SLI would be the best setup...
ya i feel ya but at the same time im not sure i eman graphics cards are loaded throughout the game streaming color and data etc but the physx card will only be used once in awhile when someone breaks a wall etc so it gets that 1 mathmaic equation does it and then wait again so unless their was a game that used physx all the time id say the dedicated physx cards are just about even with any grfx card atm...the only 1 game i see it being a diffirence in atm is the tornado map in ut3 were their is physx going on all the time throughout the map so the card is never idle.
 
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#27
ya i feel ya but at the same time im not sure i eman graphics cards are loaded throughout the game streaming color and data etc but the physx card will only be used once in awhile when someone breaks a wall etc so it gets that 1 mathmaic equation does it and then wait again so unless their was a game that used physx all the time id say the dedicated physx cards are just about even with any grfx card atm...the only 1 game i see it being a diffirence in atm is the tornado map in ut3 were their is physx going on all the time throughout the map so the card is never idle.
Aw, okay I see what you mean now... The one thing I need to remember also is a card dedicated to Physics and a card running as a Phsyx card are two entirely different things.
 

Solaris17

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#28
Aw, okay I see what you mean now... The one thing I need to remember also is a card dedicated to Physics and a card running as a Phsyx card are two entirely different things.
exactly.
 

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#29
I think it is an ok idea. Not the best, since not many people have them... maybe only Solaris has one... Who know. For now, people can put it right by their current card. Should be have one? Not right now, but it really is not hard for W1z to implement.
 

hat

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#31
That is true, but it's power doesn't need to surpass that level... yet. That card can render

Sphere collision tests: 530 million per second
Convex collision tests: 530,000 per second

It is also mostly compatible, so there is no tinkering to see if it will work with this card or not. I do agree, though, that the card is way too expensive. If it weren't for the price, I would get me one. The power of an 8xxx series over this card is impressive, but it is ultimately based on if you can get it up running. Also, as you know, it's a dedicated PPU, so it shouldn't be compared to a GPU, even though it practically is one.
Cause for $50 + shipping or so you can get an 8500gt thhat has massively more power than a $120 physx card. Screw that dedicated PPU bs, a GPU is massively more powerful and CUDA is a very powerful interface.
 

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#32
That's what I mean, an 8400 is more powerful, we know this much, so it should be able to do more physx processing in the same time, increasing your IQ..

Obviously Crossfire or SLI would be the best setup...
Why not? Is going to get bigger and bigger anyway.
@Fastmix:

The current Ageia cards haven't even touched the full bandwidth of the bus, so there's no need for such overkill cards.

@niko084:

Again you are correct, but it is totally unneeded. It's like using two 4870's or 280's in CF/SLI in order to play System Shock 2. That's a game where the GMA 900 can whip it's ass.
 

Sonido

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#33
Cause for $50 + shipping or so you can get an 8500gt thhat has massively more power than a $120 physx card. Screw that dedicated PPU bs, a GPU is massively more powerful and CUDA is a very powerful interface.
This is true, but the compatibility is what I'm getting at. I'm just waiting for that PhysX port promised for a decade. Feels like TF2 all over again.
 

Pinchy

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#34
I dont really think its necessary. Sys specs are there to allows others to help you easier, not to show off your computer. If you want to show off, post in the case mod gallery :p.


"Misc"

And you could enter: "Physx card, USB rocket launcher and a hamster wheel"
LOL
 

hat

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#35
heavily overclocked GTX260 and using the 260 with stock 8800GT, now I am thinking, considering the power draw
You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to use anm 8600GT at the most because they're low power draw. An 8500gt is ideal because the 8400gs is too weak and the 8600gt is way overkill, then again the 8500gt is also overkill but natrually it uses less power than the 8600gt. The 8500gt is the balance point. The 8400gs is too weak and the 8600gt is great but the 8500gt goes it just as well as the 8600gt but with less power draw. Never send Heracles (Hercules) to do a child's work. Unfortunately the otherwise ideal 8400gs is a baby...
 

DanTheBanjoman

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#36
I wasn't kidding actually, an extra spot for everything else makes sense. Adding Physx because two people have that can be done, next we add USB toasters because someone bought one on ebay, after that another spot for something else a hand full of people has. The list gets extremely long that way. So a single spot for everything else would be a fair addition instead.
 

Solaris17

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#37
I wasn't kidding actually, an extra spot for everything else makes sense. Adding Physx because two people have that can be done, next we add USB toasters because someone bought one on ebay, after that another spot for something else a hand full of people has. The list gets extremely long that way. So a single spot for everything else would be a fair addition instead.
i nor did anyone else in this thread that actually owns a physx card recommend this. Hat started this thread and he uses a 8500. A few of us use an actual card but in actuality alot of people on this forum more than a handfull actually use an 8 series card for physx.
 

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#38
i nor did anyone else in this thread that actually owns a physx card recommend this. Hat started this thread and he uses a 8500. A few of us use an actual card but in actuality alot of people on this forum more than a handfull actually use an 8 series card for physx.
If I could use an 8 series card, I would. I would get the cheapest and rock.
 

Pinchy

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#39
I wasn't kidding actually, an extra spot for everything else makes sense. Adding Physx because two people have that can be done, next we add USB toasters because someone bought one on ebay, after that another spot for something else a hand full of people has. The list gets extremely long that way. So a single spot for everything else would be a fair addition instead.
I actually wasnt sure if you were serious or not...but just the way you put it :p...

i nor did anyone else in this thread that actually owns a physx card recommend this. Hat started this thread and he uses a 8500. A few of us use an actual card but in actuality alot of people on this forum more than a handfull actually use an 8 series card for physx.
Yeah I agree that lots of people use it....but for the point of system specs, you can just put it in your video card line and be done with it. If you ever have trouble with your card and need help, you can mention it in the thread your posting. Also im sure if people saw "ASUS 8800GT and 8500GT for physix" they would know what you mean ;).
 

Solaris17

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#40
I actually wasnt sure if you were serious or not...but just the way you put it :p...



Yeah I agree that lots of people use it....but for the point of system specs, you can just put it in your video card line and be done with it. If you ever have trouble with your card and need help, you can mention it in the thread your posting. Also im sure if people saw "ASUS 8800GT and 8500GT for physix" they would know what you mean ;).

i was just pointing out that it wasnt as limited as he thought nor was the thread made by someone who ownes a dedicated card i agree with you i put my physx card under my video cards.
 

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#41
i was just pointing out that it wasnt as limited as he thought nor was the thread made by someone who ownes a dedicated card i agree with you i put my physx card under my video cards.
Ahk lol took that the wrong way.
 
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#42
Why not just a permanent sticky in the g-card area?
 

Solaris17

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#43
Why not just a permanent sticky in the g-card area?
because thats a stickied thread that would tell someone if you own a physx card
 
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#44
ya i feel ya but at the same time im not sure i eman graphics cards are loaded throughout the game streaming color and data etc but the physx card will only be used once in awhile when someone breaks a wall etc so it gets that 1 mathmaic equation does it and then wait again so unless their was a game that used physx all the time id say the dedicated physx cards are just about even with any grfx card atm...the only 1 game i see it being a diffirence in atm is the tornado map in ut3 were their is physx going on all the time throughout the map so the card is never idle.
I have always believed than on a near future (2 years) the whole purpose of a PPU was to create a realistic model that would work all the time. For example, instead of using static volumetric effects for fog and such it could be all dynamic particles that would be affected by wind and passing objects including bullets. Water would be like in the fluids demo (all particles again) and basically every model would be made of particles, or at least be taken as particles for physics calculation as in cloth and deformable models.

Aditionally I think physics cards could be used for some photon based lighting effects, such as Ambient Oclusion or Global Ilumination models.

The list of things that a PPU could do with close to 100% usage is long. Game developers just have to start using them, but of course they will have to do it step by step.
 
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#45
The number of cores of the CPUs are increasing efficiency per MHz is rising overall CPU frequency is increasing I don`t think that we need another component. Look at the XBOX 360 all in one futureproof system for price of one more powerful GPU CPU Physx. And most of the games are ports from XBOX 360 clealer textures and that is it.
 
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#46
I have always believed than on a near future (2 years) the whole purpose of a PPU was to create a realistic model that would work all the time. For example, instead of using static volumetric effects for fog and such it could be all dynamic particles that would be affected by wind and passing objects including bullets. Water would be like in the fluids demo (all particles again) and basically every model would be made of particles, or at least be taken as particles for physics calculation as in cloth and deformable models.

Aditionally I think physics cards could be used for some photon based lighting effects, such as Ambient Oclusion or Global Ilumination models.

The list of things that a PPU could do with close to 100% usage is long. Game developers just have to start using them, but of course they will have to do it step by step.
Yes it would be nice all to be made of particles walls trees so when they are hit by bullet it will appear real hole not bumpmap.
 
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#47
The number of cores of the CPUs are increasing efficiency per MHz is rising overall CPU frequency is increasing I don`t think that we need another component. Look at the XBOX 360 all in one futureproof system for price of one more powerful GPU CPU Physx. And most of the games are ports from XBOX 360 clealer textures and that is it.
Yes it would be nice all to be made of particles walls trees so when they are hit by bullet it will appear real hole not bumpmap.
How contradictory posts you made mate.

First of all futurepr.. what? Current so called "next-gen" consoles are already in their downfall cycle. It's been more than a year since they became obsolete. Tech/features wise I mean.

The XB360 does not have the power to do any physics worth comparing to a PPU/GPU. It's not even close to the number crunching performance of a Core2 Duo for instance. If you take into account the fastest overcloked Intel Quad can't even dream of the power of a single 8600GT (8500GT? I would say, yes), you got the answer to the first post in your second one and viceversa. A CPU has simply not enough power to perform such complex physics. In the near future it will get even worse for the CPU. While we know the next gen will have close to 2x the performance of current cards, probably much more for pure number crunching, we also know that the near future of the CPU is ONLY Nehalem. Why only? Because even if it's 50% (1.5x) faster it's life cicle is more like 2-3 years, compared to 1-1.5 years of GPUs.

Intel will have Larrabee derivatives to be able to fight and AMD will have Fusion, but both will come in late 2009 or early 2010 AFAIK, so they don't really count AND are not CPUs anyway. So we are speaking of GPU/PPU physics all over again.
 

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#48
i have found from my testing.....

8800gts 512mb card does good physx. however, overclocking the card has NO EFFECT on my physx scores at all. i have ran the gts from 600mhz all the way to 785mhz and see almost no differece(3-5pts different).
 

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#49
Why not? Is going to get bigger and bigger anyway.
What....like DX10.1 and multithredded games? if the take up of Px is twice as fast as they have been, that means it will be 10 times too slow for the consumer. Damn, DX10 cards have been around for 2 years now and there is still only a smallish proportion of all the games produced being DX10 enabled, for the sake of 5 games today personally I just dont see the point in buying an extra card, not when one can do the job if it's half decent. In GRAW2 I did see a nice effects difference with Px enabled, thing is, after playing it for a couple of hours.....you dont even notice the difference!
 
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#50
What....like DX10.1 and multithredded games? if the take up of Px is twice as fast as they have been, that means it will be 10 times too slow for the consumer. Damn, DX10 cards have been around for 2 years now and there is still only a smallish proportion of all the games produced being DX10 enabled, for the sake of 5 games today personally I just dont see the point in buying an extra card, not when one can do the job if it's half decent. In GRAW2 I did see a nice effects difference with Px enabled, thing is, after playing it for a couple of hours.....you dont even notice the difference!
IMHO there's a big difference that could make PhysX faster to become widely accepted. Well there are many.

First of all, unlike the other two, physics do add something to the mix. What does DX10.1 (or DX10 for that matter) bring to the table? Nothing really, nothing special or new or even worthwhile to the eyes of the average Joe. Some improvements to AA and a lot of features to slightly improve performance (ejem in theory...) or that help developers a lot, making their lives easier, but don't offer anything tangible. Physics on the other hand, if properly implemented, will change how we play games.

Multithreaded games. That simply doesn't really exist, never did and will never do. Games are single threaded applications and there's nothing you can do to solve that. You can split the thread and run it on different cores as much as you can, one code line after the other whenever it's possible and aditionally you can run many of the secondary features, such as sound, physics and probably AI to some extent in other cores, but they are closely tied to the main program anyway, so you can't make totally independent threads. It's not either a matter of needing more research or effort, there's only one way to go from point A to point B, and it's been long since they learnt how to make a line. The only way of taking advantage of such single threaded applications into multithreaded CPUs is through virtualization or any other possible lower level parallelism method. There are many advancements in this area, but we'll have to wait for any mainstream solution, me thinks.

The second main reason (though probably the most important one) are consoles. Consoles are DX9 and until developers feel the average PC is already faster enough that it can run games with all the DX10 features at common PC higher resolutions, they won't bother making different versions. Instead they expect the PC gamer to use much higher resolutions and AA/AF levels to use that extra power of PCs, they also put higher resolution textures that don't really add detail, because sadly they made them interpolating the console version ones, etc.
In that sense PhysX is different. PhysX can run anywhere, CPU, GPU, PPU and it has not different features, just the same instructions that will run the same way in any platform, so it's much easier to scale it for different performance levels. Cell processor if not for anything else is wonderfully designed to run physics on it, and just happens PhysX is AFAIK the official physics solution of PS3 SDK. So Ageia and the PC do have an strong ally in this particular battle.