Slim SFF gaming build upgrade path

[AusWolf]

Hi,

I have a small form factor gaming PC (details in my description). It does the job, I'm quite happy with it. I just thought why not maximise the potential in SFF, and build something more future compatible (maybe for an RTX 3050 low profile?), basically just for fun.

My first thought was upgrading the processor, but the Ryzen 5 3600 I bought ended up being impossible to cool in such a small case (with its 88 W power target compared to the advertised 65 W TDP).

My next thought is going with Intel again, as the power target of their processors still matches their TDP. I basically cooked up two options for the motherboard and the CPU:

• ASUS Z590M Prime or ASUS TUF Gaming B560M Plus WiFi
• Core i5-11500 or Core i7-11700 (non-K versions)

Side note: The CPU has to be a non-K version due to cooling constraints. It will go into a slim case with mATX motherboard support, only low profile graphics card acceptance and a max. 80 mm CPU cooler. I have a be quiet! Shadow Rock LP which is basically one of the strongest coolers I can install in this case.

The reason I created this post is because I'm not sure which motherboard or CPU is better for my use case. As for the mobo, both of them appear to be of similar quality, they're equipped similarly, share the same power delivery, and they are in the same price range. As for the processor, both of them are 65 W parts, but the i7 has two more cores - I'm not sure how that affects performance in low-threaded workloads (such as gaming). Does it clock itself lower to meet the power target? Or does it turn its inactive cores off to maintain a higher clock speed on the active ones? Would you guys buy the 8-core part for future compatibility, or would you stick to 6 cores for present-day gaming?

Side note 2, just to go ahead of some expected comments:

• "Why do you even want to upgrade? Your R3 3100 is just fine with the GTX 1650."
  Two reasons: future compatibility, and just for the fun of building a (not entirely) new system.
• "These CPU options are rubbish. Just buy a R5 5600X and call it a day."
  I tried that path with the R5 3600 and didn't work because of its cooling requirements. I need a 65 W CPU that's relatively easy to cool even in a tiny case.
• "The i5-11600K is so much better than the vanilla 11500!"
  See the answer above.
• "You don't need these motherboards. Anything cheap can run a 65 W Intel part."
  May be true, but the motherboard and PSU are the parts that I never skimp on.
• "SFF is stupid..."
  ...and immensely fun to experiment with.

Thanks.

 

[Caring1]

My next thought is going with Intel again, as the power target of their processors still matches their TDP.

Wrong, but carry on.
You forgot to add, none of the above to the poll.

 

[AusWolf]

Wrong, but carry on.
You forgot to add, none of the above to the poll.

What other option do you have in mind?

What I forgot to add is everybody can feel free to leave constructive comments.

 

[jjnissanpatfan]

The 5600X is 65 watt is thought? I have read allot of comments about how hot the 5600X gets..I have never seen over 72-74C with hours of gaming. I was sloppy with the paste and think that helps. If your building this just for a tiny gaming beast...I see the 5600X as the best candidate. The other thing I guess I see as an issue Gaming and wifi do not no mix..That should not be a selling point of a motherboard for gaming. If I game...I game and there is no wifi!

 

[AusWolf]

The 5600X is 65 watt is thought? I have read allot of comments about how hot the 5600X gets..I have never seen over 72-74C with hours of gaming. I was sloppy with the paste and think that helps. If your building this just for a tiny gaming beast...I see the 5600X as the best candidate. The other thing I guess I see as an issue Gaming and wifi do not no mix..That should not be a selling point of a motherboard for gaming. If I game...I game and there is no wifi!

I see in your specs that you run it with a Hyper 212, which is a great tower cooler (I used to own one with an FX-8150 and loved it). However, with my current setup, that is not an option. Like I said, the best cooler I could get in the form factor I'm building is the be quiet! Shadow Rock LP. Tower coolers are out of the question.

As for Wifi, it's a must for me, as my router is at the opposite end of the flat I live in, and I can't drill holes into the walls to run cables through (I'm renting). Wifi is granted in the B560, but I'd install my own m.2 Wifi card in the Z590 too. I only play single player games, so it's not an issue. Besides, broadband here in the UK Midlands is crap, so even with those couple of World of Tanks battles I might play every now and then, the broadband speed and stability is more of a bottleneck than anything.

To any future commenters: Can you please give answers to my questions according to your own experiences instead of picking flaws in my original post? It would be much appreciated.

 

[Selaya]

Don't buy Rocket Lake if you're planning on sticking with 65W or below.

EDIT: Since you asked for an elaboration, here's why:

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

• ASUS Z590M Prime or ASUS TUF Gaming B560M Plus WiFi
• Core i5-11500 or Core i7-11700 (non-K versions)

get the B560m tuf, its a quality board with solid vrm. b560 support memory overclocking, no need for Z boards for non k CPUs any more

Don't buy the 11700, its consumes too much power

My first thought was upgrading the processor, but the Ryzen 5 3600 I bought ended up being impossible to cool in such a small case (with its 88 W power target compared to the advertised 65 W TDP).

that's odd, it must be the motherboard having aggressive multi core enhancements which increases power draw at stock. What board have used for it ?
Ryzen 3000 series is fairly efficient

 

[AusWolf]

Don't buy Rocket Lake if you're planning on sticking with 65W or below.

EDIT: Since you asked for an elaboration, here's why:

It looks like Comet Lake has a much better performance/Watt ratio on the Core i5 level, which is weird. I saw a Gamer's Nexus video on that, which seems to be confirmed by multiple sources.

I might as well just save up for Alder Lake, or Zen 3 refresh (if that's gonna be a thing).

get the B560m tuf, its a quality board with solid vrm. b560 support memory overclocking, no need for Z boards for non k CPUs any more

Don't buy the 11700, its consumes too much power


that's odd, it must be the motherboard having aggressive multi core enhancements which increases power draw at stock. What board have used for it ?
Ryzen 3000 series is fairly efficient

I'm using an Asus Tuf Gaming B550M-Plus Wifi. It has an "Asus performance enhancement" option in bios, which is turned off as it's useless. PBO on Auto.

Interestingly, my 3100 never asks for more than 50 W, but the 3600 drew 85-88 W during Cinebench multi-core. I bought it because I never thought two 65 W TDP processors could behave so differently.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

I bought it because I never thought two 65 W TDP processors could behave so differently.

But they do, things arent as good as the advertised, going back to intel, the 11700 would consume more power than 65w during boost, the 11500 should stay true to that 65w target

 

[Voluman]

Well, that is not an upgrade path anyway...
On mb, check specs which suits you better, maybe check some vrm quality if you wanna some better cpus later on.
On cpu side, today aren't many cpus with real 65w consumption out of box, just after fine tune if you are okay with those kind of settings.

You have to think in system as whole (cooling, casing, desired performance), not just cherry pick 1 or 2 parts and than just what left behind.

But for a targeted 65w tdp cpu you can go with any basic board practically.
Than some cooler which fit in your case. Graphic card. Than you can chase noise level, performance, price, compatibility, any mylittleponyblingbling, and the circle will never stop
Welcome to sff world

 

[jjnissanpatfan]

I was just saying the stock cooler for AMD has to work. I know the Hyper 212 is not the best of coolers as of today. Basically any chunk of metal with a 120mm fan will cool a 5600X. I think for the intended purpose the 5600X is a great low wattage gamer. No hard feelings for intel or partial to any particular side. If you said budget or something else for the intel side, I would of not chimed in.

 

[AusWolf]

But they do, things arent as good as the advertised, going back to intel, the 11700 would consume more power than 65w during boost, the 11500 should stay true to that 65w target

I thought all Intel CPUs without TVB were locked to their power target by default (except for PL2 state). Depending on motherboard and settings of course.

I was just saying the stock cooler for AMD has to work.

I thought the same, because it definitely works with the 3100, though it eats about 30-35 W less power than the 3600 (which I didn't know).

I think for the intended purpose the 5600X is a great low wattage gamer. No hard feelings for intel or partial to any particular side. If you said budget or something else for the intel side, I would of not chimed in.

The 5600X currently sells for £300 which is the same price the i7-11700 has. I could have the i5-11500 for £200. True, I already have a motherboard that works with the 5600X, but I'm extremely cautious after my failure with the 3600.

 

[nguyen]

for SFF build I would go with B560 + 11500, you can't really install any powerful GPU anyways.

 

[joemama]

You would probably want to upgrade the whole system than stay with the SFF build, I really think you will still have a problem cooling either of those CPUs due to the case airflow.
Why not just wait after the pandemic and build a whole new system?

 

[AusWolf]

You would probably want to upgrade the whole system than stay with the SFF build, I really think you will still have a problem cooling either of those CPUs due to the case airflow.
Why not just wait after the pandemic and build a whole new system?

Just one reason: I love SFF. I did have a larger and more powerful system, but 1. I didn't use even half of its potential (R9 5950X and RX 5700 XT for 1080p gaming is a waste of silicon), 2. Building a PC in a large case is too easy. I don't only build my systems to play on them - the building and testing process is also part of the fun. That's why I don't mind if something doesn't work out. I can always sell the parts and start again, no problem.

 

[joemama]

Then maybe you would want to try a 11400F.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

I already have a motherboard that works with the 5600X, but I'm extremely cautious after my failure with the 3600.

you can always watch and read reviews.
I heard from gamer nexsus that ryzen 5000 Series 6 cores and 8 cores are true to the 65w target, go read reviews you can have a full picture that way

 

[AusWolf]

I heard from gamer nexsus that ryzen 5000 Series 6 cores and 8 cores are true to the 65w target

If only there was a 65 W 8-core part (R7 5700?).
Or maybe Ryzen 5000 G-series with their 65/35 W TDP if they come out for DIY desktop.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

If only there was a 65 W 8-core part (R7 5700?).
Or maybe Ryzen 5000 G-series with their 65/35 W TDP if they come out for DIY desktop.

as i said before, read or watch reviews and you'll find out