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Some Ryzen platform musings

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I like the chip...

I wish it was socket 1151
 

TheLostSwede

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o_O



My board allows full pcie 16 on both slots. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/SABERTOOTH_990FX_R20/specifications/

This one has 2 full speed slots aswell.

http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-990FXA-UD7-rev-1x#sp

http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-990FXA-UD7-rev-30#sp.

Im sure if AMD had launched a board that had 16x PCI E 3.0 x2 or x4 it would cost the same as a $600 X99 board.


Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. The old 990FX chipset was dual x16, the new stuff is all dual x8, because the PCIe root complex is now inside the CPU instead of in the the chipset and it takes up a lot of space, so they decided to cut back on the PCIe lane count, since most people don't "need" more lanes.
 
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cdawall

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I always love it when others decide for us what we "need" and we do not :)

What are you doing with your 40 lanes and single video card?
 

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Here's a nugget from ASRock's spec page.
It seems that if you want to go high-speed, you can only use two DIMMs, otherwise you might be limited to DDR4 2400...

Memory
- Dual Channel DDR4 Memory Technology
- 4 x DDR4 DIMM Slots
- Supports DDR4 2667/2400/2133 ECC and non-ECC, un-buffered memory*
- Max. capacity of system memory: 64GB
- 15μ Gold Contact in DIMM Slots

*Please refer to below table for DDR4 UDIMM maximum frequency support.
Ryzen Series CPUs:
UDIMM Memory Slot Frequency(MHZ)
A1
A2 B1 B2
- SR - - 2667
- DR - - 2667
- SR - SR 2667
- DR - DR 2400-2667
SR SR SR SR 2133-2400
SR/DR DR SR/DR DR 1866-2133

SR: Single rank DIMM, 1Rx4 or 1Rx8 on DIMM module label
DR: Dual rank DIMM, 2Rx4 or 2Rx8 on DIMM module label


Then there's this

Slots

- 2 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 Slots (PCIE2: x16 mode; PCIE3: x8 mode)*
- 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x16 Slot (PCIE5 @ x4 mode)**
- 2 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 Slots
- Supports AMD Quad CrossFireX™ and CrossFireX™
- Supports NVIDIA® Quad SLI™ and SLI™
- 1 x Vertical M.2 Socket (Key E) with the bundled WiFi-802.11ac module (on the rear I/O)
- 15μ Gold Contact in VGA PCIe Slot (PCIE2)

*Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks

**If PCIE5 slot is occupied, M2_2 will be disabled


So it looks like it's possible to use the second x16 slot for NVMe drives if you're happy to take that 1% performance reduction for your graphics card. This might be specific to ASRock and their UEFI implementation though.
As with MSI, they're sharing the bandwidth between the third PCIe x16 slot and the M.2 slot.


Spec's here http://www.asrock.com.tw/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/index.asp#Specification
 
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cdawall

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That's not the first place I have heard this.
 

TheLostSwede

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Found one more curiosity on the ASRock boards.
There are at least three different variations of the second M.2 slot.
I can understand the B350 boards, as the chipset doesn't have enough PCIe lanes, but why the difference on the X370 boards?
It's going to be fun figuring out all the various configurations for your average consumer...

The primary slot is - 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type 2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s) (with Ryzen Series CPU) or Gen3 x2 (16 Gb/s) (with A-Series APU)

The secondary slot on the other hand is fairly random.
X370 Taichi - 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen2 x4 (20 Gb/s)
X370 Killer SLI - 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen2 x2 (10 Gb/s)
AB350 Pro4 - 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280/22110 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module
 
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What are you doing with your 40 lanes and single video card?

For starters, it's not about lanes per se, but rather what they equate to in everyday use. That aside, if you can neither be bothered to read nor recall what I said barely three posts up, how can we have a discussion exactly? :)

And while this is an error often committed in "internet" discussions, try not to judge a situation that afflicts everyone based on the thinking of a single person, be they yourself or another.
a) What -you- want.. expect.. that's your preference. However, defining your preference as something universal is pushing it.
b) Expertise or familiarity within a specific field does not equate in advance that all our arguments are correct or reasonable. While in the micro scale something may appear as inevitable due to say technical restrictions, the fact does remain that it's possible for its outcome to appear illogical considering the consequences. And we pay money in mind of the consequences, this isn't all handed to us.

If what -you- need, in order to have an Ati Radeon avatar (I mean for crying out loud, objectivity much?), is a single GPU, very good. I'm not here to say you're wrong, I don't even take that route because you're entitled to whatever you please; i'm only here to remind that others need, not want, need, more.
 
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TheLostSwede

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Looks like even I was confused by all this PCIe lane business.
MSI is sharing the secondary M.2 slot with the third PCIe slot, so no 3.0 bandwidth for that slot from the CPU.
Unlike some manufacturers they're at least not killing all the x1 slots if you use the x4 slot.

msi_pcie.png
 

cdawall

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For starters, it's not about lanes per se, but rather what they equate to in everyday use. That aside, if you can neither be bothered to read nor recall what I said barely three posts up, how can we have a discussion exactly? :)

And while this is an error often committed in "internet" discussions, try not to judge a situation that afflicts everyone based on the thinking of a single person, be they yourself or another.
a) What -you- want.. expect.. that's your preference. However, defining your preference as something universal is pushing it.
b) Expertise or familiarity within a specific field does not equate in advance that all our arguments are correct or reasonable. While in the micro scale something may appear as inevitable due to say technical restrictions, the fact does remain that it's possible for its outcome to appear illogical considering the consequences. And we pay money in mind of the consequences, this isn't all handed to us.

If what -you- need, in order to have an Ati Radeon avatar (I mean for crying out loud, objectivity much?), is a single GPU, very good. I'm not here to say you're wrong, I don't even take that route because you're entitled to whatever you please; i'm only here to remind that others need, not want, need, more.

My point was simple it was bringing to light if someone needs more lanes the option easily exists, it is however not available with amd currently.

A single user does not create a product line the vast majority do. The vast majority use one video card so much so that nvidia currently has some awful sli scaling and couldn't care less about fixing it.
 
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To those worried about 8x pcie... Do some benchmarks at 16x and 8x, I think you'll be very surprised. Watch the bus usage in afterburner too.
My old gtx titans don't even come close to maxing out an 8x link, I doubt even a 1080Ti will. So although some of you want 16x lanes for every slot, it doesn't really matter in practice. Not currently anyway.
 
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To those worried about 8x pcie... Do some benchmarks at 16x and 8x, I think you'll be very surprised. Watch the bus usage in afterburner too.
My old gtx titans don't even come close to maxing out an 8x link, I doubt even a 1080Ti will. So although some of you want 16x lanes for every slot, it doesn't really matter in practice. Not currently anyway.

Yup there are numerous here, 3-4 fps isnt going to mean much lol.
 
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Well, almost all Intel CPU's have graphics, so it makes a bit more sense on the Intel side. Exactly zero Ryzen CPU's have built in graphics from what I can tell.

But what's wrong with using an expensive motherboard with an APU?
Raven Ridge is said to include Ryzen 4C/8T which could mean peformance similar to Ryzen 5 1400x - that could result in performance on par with current Intel i5.
And yes, people use i5 (or even i3) with Z270 motherboards. :)
 
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Yup there are numerous here, 3-4 fps isnt going to mean much lol.

But if you really wanted to you could make a thread putting up a big stink about it.
 

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But if you really wanted to you could make a thread putting up a big stink about it.

I don't whine about it. PCIe 3.0 8X bandwidth is plenty. Amd may launch a 390 chipset if there is a real demand for it, mainstream/gamers take over the enthusiasts anyday lol.
 

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Again, the chipsets aren't the same as before. These are more like south bridges than chipsets, as they have a x4 PCIe interface to the CPU, with only 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes coming from the chipset.

If ASMedia was to make a 390 chipset for AMD, the limiting factor would still be the chipset to CPU interface. This is the same problem Intel has with their mainstream platform.

There's no way to magically add more PCIe lanes. The only way to do this is through the CPU and that might very well require a new socket.
 
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Sorry but the new boards don't even beat my X58 board, Asus P6T6 WS Revolution.
in bandwidth terms it beats your easily two pciex3 x8 slots would work better then two pciex2x16 because of protocol improvements , all in its close in bandwidth.

and reasonably how many go sli or quad gpu,not many,,, whats the support like, patchy from both camps and 3+ gpus , only folders and miners these days and the board for thats not out yet but possible.

im happy to swap my crosshair V right now. but happys not enough tut.

@thelostsweed your not taking into account the fact that many details on ryzen and its socket pinout and chipset are not known , the available packages might not be the ultimate best.

Amd's Naples chip is said to feature a lot more pciex lanes then the consumer platform ,even allowing for dual dies MCM style and it also has a massive socket.

its possible and likely given pciex4 coming out in a year or two that they thought of the future:)
 
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Very little isn't already known, the motherboard manufacturers have put out their manuals and that's what I've been reading alongside with the official details from AMD. I'm very confident there won't be any big surprises coming. The platform is just as crippled as Intel's mainstream platform, most likely to keep costs down. However, it's disappointing that AMD didn't have a more forward looking vision and the chipsets are truly lacking, at best they compete with Intel's 7-series of chipsets, just with added USB 3.1 support.

And Naples uses a very different socket... (also, it's than, not then)

Just to help you out a bit, so people understand what you're writing, it's not pciex3 or pciex4, the standard is PCIe 3.0 or PCIe 4.0. x4, x8, etc. if for lane count. You're making things very confusing and hard to understand by making up your own way of writing things that should follow a very specific format to make sense.
 
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