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Sony asks gamers to sign new terms or face PSN ban

newtekie1

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#51
If you were a company that required PSN to make money and PSN goes down causing tens of thousands of dollars worth of losses to your company, you bet your ass their going to sue--that clause isn't going to stop them and likely, the court will take the plaintiff's damages (as long as they can prove it) over the defendants ToS. It doesn't matter how wordy the ToS, it rarely holds water unless the plantiff wrote it and the defendant agreed to it.
The ToS for companies that sell things on PSN is way different than the one end users agree too, and if you are a company that is losing tens of thousands due to a PSN outage you aren't likely to sue in a class action manner, you will sue on your own, so that argument hardly makes sense.
 
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#52
Where do i sign up? Like i care about class action lawsuits or even being part of one. I'll have me some PSN now ty.
 
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#53
The ToS for companies that sell things on PSN is way different than the one end users agree too, and if you are a company that is losing tens of thousands due to a PSN outage you aren't likely to sue in a class action manner, you will sue on your own, so that argument hardly makes sense.
I think Ford is right and Sony are just trying it on.

If an end user refuses to agree to the new ToS, then Sony still has a contractural obligation to continue to honour the previous ToS. If they cut service to someone under these circumstances, then Sony are breaching the contract and will be liable for damages.
 

newtekie1

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#54
I think Ford is right and Sony are just trying it on.

If an end user refuses to agree to the new ToS, then Sony still has a contractural obligation to continue to honour the previous ToS. If they cut service to someone under these circumstances, then Sony are breaching the contract and will be liable for damages.
Actually, no they don't. Because part of the original contract is that Sony can choose to end service at any time for any reason. The only time they would have to continue to honour the previous ToS is if there was a speicific time set in the original contract to how long Sony would be providing the service.
 
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#55
My dog pressed "I Agree" while i wasn't present next to my console. So dog accepted the agreement but i haven't. Valid argument :p
 
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#56
Actually, no they don't. Because part of the original contract is that Sony can choose to end service at any time for any reason. The only time they would have to continue to honour the previous ToS is if there was a speicific time set in the original contract to how long Sony would be providing the service.
I agree with your point and am unsure of how laws work in the US.

In Australia, Sony would need to make that point clear in all of it's initial marketing or be potentially liable for misleading conduct. It is not permissable to advertise a feature of a product and then eliminate it's viability unless it is either clearly stated up front or part of force majure.
 
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#57

newtekie1

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#58
I agree with your point and am unsure of how laws work in the US.

In Australia, Sony would need to make that point clear in all of it's initial marketing or be potentially liable for misleading conduct. It is not permissable to advertise a feature of a product and then eliminate it's viability unless it is either clearly stated up front or part of force majure.
Well the fact that they put it into the ToS that you are supposed to read is being upfront enough, at least in the US it is. Otherwise all the companies that provide free services would have to provide them indefinitely, and that isn't reasonable at all.
 
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#59
And this is why my computer is going to take over when I retire my PS3, this is something serious that Sony is choosing to start dicking around with, they have an obligation to protect our secure information yet they want us to waive the right to sue them IF they fail to keep our information secure.....gotta love them Sony geniuses....
 

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#60
All I have to say is I clicked ok to the terms and conditions. Not exactly a big deal IMO I don't have any CC info on the PSN hell I don't even have a phone number on there. This how ordeal is getting overblown.
 
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#61
All I have to say is I clicked ok to the terms and conditions. Not exactly a big deal IMO I don't have any CC info on the PSN hell I don't even have a phone number on there. This how ordeal is getting overblown.
Like I said on the first page.. its a TOS click ok or cancel and either enjoy the online or not.. the end.. no conspiracy here.. go play ur cod now
 

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#62
Like I said on the first page.. its a TOS click ok or cancel and either enjoy the online or not.. the end.. no conspiracy here.. go play ur cod now
Mine was for netflix but the idea is the same :laugh:
 
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#63
The point of the matter to me is that the are bullying you in to agreeing with it. Either you sign it or you don't..If you don't you don't get to enjoy one of the major benefits of it.

Also they are asking you to sign away your rights. It leads to other things in the future if this is allowed.
 

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#64
The point of the matter to me is that the are bullying you in to agreeing with it. Either you sign it or you don't..If you don't you don't get to enjoy one of the major benefits of it.

Also they are asking you to sign away your rights. It leads to other things in the future if this is allowed.
then don't use sony products they do not force you to buy them and there are alternatives.
 
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#65
then don't use sony products they do not force you to buy them and there are alternatives.
And what happens when other companies look at Sony and think "Wow! they got away with it!, Let's do it too!"

Now because of stupid DRM's, ad's in video games and being asked to waive my rights I intend on downloading more than ever now.....:toast:
 
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#66
And what happens when other companies look at Sony and think "Wow! they got away with it!, Let's do it too!"

Now because of stupid DRM's, ad's in video games and being asked to waive my rights I intend on downloading more than ever now.....:toast:
go live in the desert and ride a horse with no name.
 
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#67
go live in the desert and ride a horse with no name.
I took a trail ride throught the mountains once. The horse's name was Fartin Freddie. The name was appropriate.
 

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#68
And what happens when other companies look at Sony and think "Wow! they got away with it!, Let's do it too!"

Now because of stupid DRM's, ad's in video games and being asked to waive my rights I intend on downloading more than ever now.....:toast:
Shit happens then you die. People gotta make money somehow and fucking the little guy seems like the move of choice right now. Like is said no one forces people to purchase things with DRM, no one forces you to agree to PSN terms that is your choice as a human being. Life is all about choices. I choose to not care, I don't plan on filing a class action lawsuit against Sony because someone tried to fuck them over. It is not Sony's fault there are unscrupulous people in this world.
 
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#69
Bah... a little thing like this. I stopped caring about a PS3 when they screwed up backwards compatibility!
 
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#70

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#71
The point of the matter to me is that the are bullying you in to agreeing with it.
No they aren't. Not in the slightest. They aren't standing behind your couche threatening to smack you if you don't agree, they aren't holding a gun to your head. It is their service, if you don't agree to the rules to use it, then don't use it. That isn't bullying, that is how the world works.


Either you sign it or you don't..If you don't you don't get to enjoy one of the major benefits of it.
Correct. You get to make the decision, sometimes you have to "sacrifice" to get enjoyment of a service that someone else is providing. Sony isn't obligated to give you PSN.

Also they are asking you to sign away your rights. It leads to other things in the future if this is allowed.
No they aren't. Your right is the option to choose to agree or disagree with the ToS. That is the same argument that the TSA agents are violating your rights by searching you, no your right was the freedom to choose to fly or not, if you don't like the terms related to your decision, then you shouldn't have made the decision.

And what happens when other companies look at Sony and think "Wow! they got away with it!, Let's do it too!"

Now because of stupid DRM's, ad's in video games and being asked to waive my rights I intend on downloading more than ever now.....:toast:
As I already pointed out, they don't need to look at Sony, there are far more ToSes out there already that they can take examples from. Sony asking you to agree not to sue in a class action lawsuit while still allowing you to sue individually is one of the better ToSes I've read actually. Other companies should take example from Sony.
 
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#72
Correct. You get to make the decision, sometimes you have to "sacrifice" to get enjoyment of a service that someone else is providing. Sony isn't obligated to give you PSN.
Do they not use it as a selling point? If so, than I'd say yes they are obligated to give it. It's like buying a happy meal and they tell you it comes with a toy and then when you get the toy (after you pay) they say "you can only use the toy if you do something for us" Gimmie My F^^king Toy!

No they aren't. Your right is the option to choose to agree or disagree with the ToS. That is the same argument that the TSA agents are violating your rights by searching you, no your right was the freedom to choose to fly or not, if you don't like the terms related to your decision, then you shouldn't have made the decision.
You can't compare a one time thing with something that you use over time. What do you say to the guy who been playing on-line since the ps3 first came out (5 years ago)? At first they say, hey buy it you can play on-line. Now their saying you can play on-line only if you agree with us. That person should be able to return it than because it isn't what he agreed to in the first place.

As I already pointed out, they don't need to look at Sony, there are far more ToSes out there already that they can take examples from. Sony asking you to agree not to sue in a class action lawsuit while still allowing you to sue individually is one of the better ToSes I've read actually. Other companies should take example from Sony.
But how many of the other ToSes have changed? If it was like that from the beginning than OK the person has no right to bitch, but they are changing it. They are still legally bound to the first ToS. I guess you are looking at it from a U.S. point of view. Thankfully, most of the rest of the world sees it differently.

Here's a good read for you.

Contract law expert Raini Zambelli of Pinsent Masons, the law firm behind Out-Law.com, said that UK courts may not allow Sony to limit consumers' action in this way.

"Any such term may contravene the Unfair Contract Terms Act (UCTA), which is the guardian of consumer rights when dealing with suppliers," Zambelli said.

Under the UCTA a term will be unfair if it unreasonably seeks to limit the supplier’s liability for the consequences arising from having themselves breached the contract. If a term is found to be unfair then it will not be binding on the consumer. So, a supplier seeking to rely on a clause that excludes their exposure to a representative action would have to convince the court that clause was reasonable.
http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/...stomers-to-waive-right-to-collective-redress/
 

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#73
Do they not use it as a selling point? If so, than I'd say yes they are obligated to give it. It's like buying a happy meal and they tell you it comes with a toy and then when you get the toy (after you pay) they say "you can only use the toy if you do something for us" Gimmie My F^^king Toy!
That is how services work, even if it is a selling point, you still have to agree to terms before using it.

You can't compare a one time thing with something that you use over time. What do you say to the guy who been playing on-line since the ps3 first came out (5 years ago)? At first they say, hey buy it you can play on-line. Now their saying you can play on-line only if you agree with us. That person should be able to return it than because it isn't what he agreed to in the first place.
Actually, they said you can only play if you agree with us way back when they first started playing online when they agreed to the original ToS. And part of that ToS is that they can terminate the service at any time for any reason, and not agreeing to the new ToS is a perfectly valid reason to terminate the service.

Again, your rights are not being given up, your right is the option to choose to agree or not. People need to learn that the consiquences of their chooses aren't violations of their rights.



But how many of the other ToSes have changed? If it was like that from the beginning than OK the person has no right to bitch, but they are changing it. They are still legally bound to the first ToS. I guess you are looking at it from a U.S. point of view. Thankfully, most of the rest of the world sees it differently.
Even the places that are seeing it differently, the original ToS is invalid. There is no modern country that forces a company to continue to provide a service when the original ToS specifically says they can terminate it at any time, and that is what the original ToS says. So if they don't agree to the new ToS, they don't get the service, end of story. The service provided by the original ToS is terminated either way, and Sony has every right to do that.

Nothing new, the legallity of giving up your option to sue collectively isn't at question here. Sony has already covered that because it says in the new ToS that local laws might not allow someone to give up their option to sue collectively. That isn't at issue here, in locals that don't allow this that section of the ToS doesn't apply anyway, there are states in the US that are like this as well.

However, Sony requiring your to agree to a new ToS before you continue to use PSN is perfectly legal and allowable anywhere.
 
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cdawall

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#74
But how many of the other ToSes have changed? If it was like that from the beginning than OK the person has no right to bitch, but they are changing it. They are still legally bound to the first ToS. I guess you are looking at it from a U.S. point of view. Thankfully, most of the rest of the world sees it differently.

Here's a good read for you.
TONS of terms of services change look at software microsofts windows 95 and windows 7 are not the same at all. SP2 of windows XP was a different TOS than SP1.
 

newtekie1

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#75
TONS of terms of services change look at software microsofts windows 95 and windows 7 are not the same at all. SP2 of windows XP was a different TOS than SP1.
Steam's ToS changes almost every time Steam is updated. And I just had to agree to a new ToS for Xbox Live something like 3 weeks ago.;)