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Sony Helping Create New Mass-Storage Optical Disc Archive Solutions

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#1
Sony Corporation today announced that it will be commercializing a next-generation optical disc archive storage system. Sony will also organize an Optical Disc Archive Advisory Group to promote the adoption of this new storage format among the various companies in related industries.

Sony's new system will deliver superior long-term storage capabilities, which are enabled through the use of media built to withstand changes in temperature and humidity, and is dust and water resistance. Furthermore, the new system provides guaranteed intergenerational compatibility and eliminates the need to re-archive copies of past archive data, offering a more user-friendly and dependable long-term storage solution.

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Easy Rhino

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#2
this seems crazy expensive and full of fail. optical discs are not as dependable and far more expensive than a raid array. very lame.
 

munchroom

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#3
@Easy Rhino Raid is in no way a back up solution and if threaded right decent optical disks will last for ages. This is a faster alternative to tape storage.

I see it as the first public step in that innovation the new sony ceo was talking about
 
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#4
Optical discs are the thing of the past imo.
 
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#5
It seems the discs will be optimised for long term archival purposes like tape. Hard drives are not for archival purposes like tape, and hence these optical discs are not the target market for short term consumer storage.
 

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#6
@Easy Rhino Raid is in no way a back up solution and if threaded right decent optical disks will last for ages. This is a faster alternative to tape storage.

I see it as the first public step in that innovation the new sony ceo was talking about
sure if this was 2004 then i would totally agree with you. this is too little to late. proliferation of the cloud has changed the landscape of long term backup solutions.
 
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#7
honestly looks like another fail-propietary Sony technology, you know... the same ones that have brought the company to its death knell.
Since they failed with DAT for backup(as it stagnated in capacity and performance and it's utterly unreliable -and this i tell you by experience, i've never seen a DAT drive survive a decent ammount of time or a DAT tape not developing critical errors-) this looks like simply one of those experimental ultra high capacity dual-side-dual layer blurays into a cartridge(propietray sony ofc) which means they can sell it for 5x the true cost.


@munchroom: there's nothing faster than tape nowadays(for backup, i.e.: streaming), optical is at least 2+ gens behind tape atm in performance.
Optical will hardly do more than 30~40MB/s, LTO-5 does 140MB/s UNCOMPRESSED and 280MB/s compressed(not to mention it has 1.5TB capacity native to 3TB compressed).

Also, you can see this is not a "serious" solution as it uses USB 3.0 because servers don't have USB 3.0 onboard(not even current gen ones) and there aren't direct options available from manufacturers(i.e: IBM nor HP nor Dell have server-certified USB 3.0 HBAs) which means companies will be very weary to adopt it.

And whilst USB 3.0 optimistically can reach 400MB/s, i rather connect my backup drives with a guaranteed BW SAS 6Gbps link that was designed for storage rather than a consumer-thought interface. And you can see this in LTO drive design, it's either 3G-SAS, 6G-SAS or FC
 
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#8
sure if this was 2004 then i would totally agree with you. this is too little to late. proliferation of the cloud has changed the landscape of long term backup solutions.
not if you want that backup on site. existing in another machine is not a long term solution, as power, corruption, etc can cause data loss. it's not there yet but this is definitely a start imo.
 
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#9
The problem with optical (and even tape backups) for medium environments is the usually the write speed. Modern servers have TBs of data, and if you have say, 15 of them that need backing up in one night... you wouldn't be able to do it. Unless they drastically improved the performance of this device, that will ultimately be why it would fail.

It was possible in 2004 just due to the size of the average server, with the increase in storage, and the not so big increase in optical writing speeds, its just not practical anymore.

EDIT: The fastest DVDs are 24x or 253.44 Mbit/s, on a Gigabit network, that becomes a massive bottleneck. Unless they write multiples at once.

Bluray is double that.
 
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#10
sure if this was 2004 then i would totally agree with you. this is too little to late. proliferation of the cloud has changed the landscape of long term backup solutions.
I store my data in the cloud, specifically Megaupload ... oh, I can't access Megaupload now, funny ...

Interesting that they are going to use OD as the medium to go forward rather than your traditional tape, but the inertia to adopt it will most likely knee this little project before it can even learn how to walk.
 

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#11
I'd be interested to know what kind of optical system is used.
 

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#13
this seems crazy expensive and full of fail. optical discs are not as dependable and far more expensive than a raid array. very lame.
i still have a disc from back in 2000 it still works. its a CD with qu@K3 3 on it
 
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#14
i still have a disc from back in 2000 it still works. its a CD with qu@K3 3 on it
yet i have SEVERAL DVDs from 2005~ish that became unreadable or developed bad spots whilst stored in a relatively controlled environment....


But i have never seen a failed LTO cartridge(other than mechanical failure induced by the drive itself, like missing the leader or tangling), THAT'S the reliability needed
 

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#15
This is targetted for archival purposes, not backup. Big difference.
 
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#16
sure if this was 2004 then i would totally agree with you. this is too little to late. proliferation of the cloud has changed the landscape of long term backup solutions.
Thissssss . So much easyier, to fedex a JBOD or in the case of my company, we build out Shuttle XPC's with 4x3TB hdd's running Linux software raid. Those things..fly..
 
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#17
yet i have SEVERAL DVDs from 2005~ish that became unreadable or developed bad spots whilst stored in a relatively controlled environment....

But i have never seen a failed LTO cartridge(other than mechanical failure induced by the drive itself, like missing the leader or tangling), THAT'S the reliability needed
Maybe Sony is going to use pumped-up M-DISC media:

New M-DISC to Provide Up To 1,000 Years of Permanent Data Storage

That would solve the reliability problem.
 
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#18
Make one 300GB disk with the price of current DVD's and this technology is guaranteed to succes. Make them expensive, and it will be another epic failure.
 

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#19
Make one 300GB disk with the price of current DVD's and this technology is guaranteed to succes. Make them expensive, and it will be another epic failure.
That is not the purpose of this new tech.
 

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#20
Thissssss . So much easyier, to fedex a JBOD or in the case of my company, we build out Shuttle XPC's with 4x3TB hdd's running Linux software raid. Those things..fly..
see i knew a sys admin could back me up on this.

anyway, even if optical is used for archival over something else it should be used as a backup of the archive on a hdd array. (so as a second backup.) and still there is the point that this is sony we are talking about. they will create some BS proprietary nonsense that somebody can do twice as good for half the money :laugh:
 

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#21
this is nonsense.
 

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#22
anyway, even if optical is used for archival over something else it should be used as a backup of the archive on a hdd array. (so as a second backup.) and still there is the point that this is sony we are talking about. they will create some BS proprietary nonsense that somebody can do twice as good for half the money :laugh:
But we don't know that yet do we? I mean I don't think they will reinvent the wheel but I at least want to know how it works before I judge it.
 

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#23
But we don't know that yet do we? I mean I don't think they will reinvent the wheel but I at least want to know how it works before I judge it.
sure if you want to be pragmatic about it. but im not feeling very pragmatic today ;)
 

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#24
Okay here's my take on it as a sys admin.

Archival storage is for data that is not being accessed with any regularity or perhaps not at all unless there is some need to get historical references to something. Many times access to archival data is based upon a request for access (at which time the archive can be pulled and put online) and not on an immediate need.
Some IT departments will keep a portion of their archives online(or at least readily available) based upon the likelyhood of access need, and simply pull obsolete or unused data by request only.

Anyway, for small and medium sized businesses (and even some large businesses), not running HDD arrays can reduce overhead and replacement costs by utilizing other archival mediums (tapes, ODs), when high data availability and high access performance is not imperative.

As far as Sony using a propretary format that only works with there stuff, that's almost a given. But proprietary does not equal fail if there is a genuine market need (or desire) for this type of format.

As always, time and the markets will determine this projects success or failure.
 

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#25
Okay here's my take on it as a sys admin.

Archival storage is for data that is not being accessed with any regularity or perhaps not at all unless there is some need to get historical references to something. Many times access to archival data is based upon a request for access (at which time the archive can be pulled and put online) and not on an immediate need.
Some IT departments will keep a portion of their archives online(or at least readily available) based upon the likelyhood of access need, and simply pull obsolete or unused data by request only.

Anyway, for small and medium sized businesses (and even some large businesses), not running HDD arrays can reduce overhead and replacement costs by utilizing other archival mediums (tapes, ODs), when high data availability and high access performance is not imperative.

As far as Sony using a propretary format that only works with there stuff, that's almost a given. But proprietary does not equal fail if there is a genuine market need (or desire) for this type of format.

As always, time and the markets will determine this projects success or failure.
i don't disagree, but as i said in an earlier post this isn't 2004! the setup sony is proposing requires a massive room with robotics to fetch the discs and load them. they still do this will some tape backup solutions but they were replaced when HDD storage became inexpensive. now with the cloud we have some pretty sophisticated software solutions to managing data that would for all intents and purposes be considered "archived." you don't need a separate room for it since you are paying somebody else to host it. you don't need any special skills or worry about the robots arm breaking down. you just need decent sys admin skills to fetch the data from the cloud using the typical web software tools. i seriously do not see how this idea can be a success in this day and age.