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Spectre / Meltdown Fiasco - User Side

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#1
With 90% of the space on this topic being provided by fans praising or trashing manufacturers was looking for a space dedicated to real world user impacts and solutions. AMD has already acknowledged being affected by the second variant of Spectre and Im really not interested in blamestorming or that if i was doing {isert thing I definitely am not doing] reduces poerformance by 18.765 %. What I am interested in is the reality of the impact on users ... what patches include "the fixes'" so if desired they can be avpoided so one can avoid Read a lot about how this affects the VM space, large servers and such but little about the CAD station in my office, little about my son's flight sim box, little about this patch was installed on my (insert hardware specs) box and I don't notice / I did notice this. What are the potential real world downsides to not patching in the desktop space ? Agaon not really interested in how much better off / worse we'd be witha different CPU, just about impacts of what happening w/o patch or w/o patch., how to avois if desired and before / after
individual experinces
 
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#2
I believe the most scary thing that has been demonstrated is breaking out of a browser sandbox to read memory outside the sandbox.
 

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#3
Iirc AMD is tailoring a patch of their own to their specific arch, Intel will have to redo theirs as it appears to increase random restarts/aka bsods.

Security threats are bad regardless, i mean compromising your data, someone could create keygen/logger software that uses the flaws to steal credit/debit card info etc, mining botnets or botnets in general.

Let's just say that I would not trust anything that is on Windows update and I believe it will be smart if intel and Andy release their individual patches on their website directly
 
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#4
Let's just say that I would not trust anything that is on Windows update
Considering these require OS-side patches, you are out of luck there I am afraid.
 

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#5
Considering these require OS-side patches, you are out of luck there I am afraid.
Yeah just my thoughts on all this. I'm on 7 anyway, been mobile for several months as my rig is in storage, so i will be backlogged on updates lol
 
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#6
my kabylake machine did a "window has a problem we will restart it for you" tonight.. not when the cpu was working hard or anything.. i was halfway through a film on netflix.. its done it only the once.. but once is enough to suggest problems..

trog
 

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#7
my kabylake machine did a "window has a problem we will restart it for you" tonight.. not when the cpu was working hard or anything.. i was halfway through a film on netflix.. its done it only the once.. but once is enough to suggest problems..

trog
I recalled certain patches ms released causing the os to be irrecoverable last year on 7 64, once I found that I put them on a personal blacklist.

Seems the patch needs tweaking @trog100, or the cure is much worse than the disease itself like how chemo is...
 
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#8
I recalled certain patches ms released causing the os to be irrecoverable last year on 7 64, once I found that I put them on a personal blacklist.

Seems the patch needs tweaking @trog100, or the cure is much worse than the disease itself like how chemo is...
my desktop machine is running 24/7 mining.. it blue screened while it was mining and playing a netflix movie which is something i do on regular basis.. i am putting it down to the ms patch..

my machine has enough grunt to let me mine and do normal things at the same time.. i do turn off the miner if i want to play a game.. but otherwise it just stays running.. i dont game as much as i used to do.. just the odd time when i get bored..

trog
 
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#9
That's odd, you dont use amd processor nor do you have haswell/broadwell which supposed to have issues with the mitigation. Did you get a new bios? if only the windows patch then you dont have the cpu microcode installed, which means you are not mitigated fully. Are you OC'ed?
 
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#10
Considering these require OS-side patches, you are out of luck there I am afraid.
Well... it needs some effort from everyone involved: CPU, mobo and OS makers. That said, it seems they're cooperating and patches will be coming out.
First attempts are fairly brutal on performance (especially Meltdown fix, but Spectre could slow us down by 5-10% as well). Lets hope that they'll keep improving the fixes and some of the performance comes back.

What are the potential real world downsides to not patching in the desktop space ?
Potential downsides? :-D
Someone can steal all your passwords, your money, your data, your identity even.
Seriously, no one should even think about not installing the fixes, if the PC is connected to the internet.

It's like if you've been keeping keys to your house under the pot near the door for 20 years, but no one ever robbed you. What has changed is that there's a huge sign on the door saying "check the flowers!"

If someone has an isolated supercomputer and he doesn't want to sacrifice performance, because developing a cure for HIV will arrive 3 years later, he might take the risk. Everyone else shouldn't.

The worst part? I'd vote for breaking browser sandbox as well.
It doesn't need any access to your PC (neither physical nor virtual). You're downloading some JavaScript and running it on your own. And this JS can do whatever it wants.

What you have to understand is once a flaw like this becomes public, also the way to exploit becomes a common knowledge. I mean: today you can find open-source tools that check your vulnerability. What else do you need? :)
So while there is some probability, that this flaw was being used in the past, it becomes almost a sure thing now. You should expect that all illegal / shady sites you visit (piracy, porn etc) will test your PC.

I never open my bank or my gov site and a torrent site at the same time - being affraid of things like keylogging.
But now everything changes, since we've learned that the "bad site" could read browser cache, saved passwords and all that stuff anyway...
 
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#11
I've just assumed from back in the 90's that going on the net wasn't a safe neighborhood to begin with. In other words, be careful. I use AV and run Malewarebytes pretty regularly but that doesn't protect me from all the nasties all the time. My approach is to use a laptop for the net and my desktop is for gaming only. My laptop probably has some nasties on it so I don't use it for buying anything online with credit card and I consider any site that I use on it disposable if necessary, including this one.

There's no way to be be bullet proof on the net.
 
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#12
Enough with all the fear mongering, there is no known exploits in the wild, it's ok to wait a bit for stable patches, just get your antivirus in order, and common sense when opening files. People really like to be scared or rushed into patching while wearing tinfoil hats..
 
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#13
Enough with all the fear mongering, there is no known exploits in the wild, it's ok to wait a bit for stable patches, just get your antivirus in order, and common sense when opening files. People really like to be scared or rushed into patching while wearing tinfoil hats..
What?! :D
At this point we have open-source testers for both flaws. What else do you need? :-D
Even assuming no one, apart from handful of guys in 2017, noticed this flaw (for 20 years!), what do you think all hackers are doing right now? Skiing?

I've just assumed from back in the 90's that going on the net wasn't a safe neighborhood to begin with.
Back in early 90's going on the net was really risky and everyone were hacked all the time (banks, governments, companies).
It's 2018. Going online is safer than going outside. I don't recommend replacing playing football with playing FIFA 2018, but the principle holds. :)
My approach is to use a laptop for the net and my desktop is for gaming only.
Is your desktop connected to the internet? :)

Also, your approach is rather intriguing. You use the desktop only for gaming, which is very likely the least important way one can use a computer (putting aside pro gamers who earn this way).
Everything else you do on another PC, on which you seem to have a lower security needs. :-D
 
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#14
What?! :D
At this point we have open-source testers for both flaws. What else do you need? :-D
Even assuming no one, apart from handful of guys in 2017, noticed this flaw (for 20 years!), what do you think all hackers are doing right now? Skiing?


Back in early 90's going on the net was really risky and everyone were hacked all the time (banks, governments, companies).
It's 2018. Going online is safer than going outside. I don't recommend replacing playing football with playing FIFA 2018, but the principle holds. :)

Is your desktop connected to the internet? :)

Also, your approach is rather intriguing. You use the desktop only for gaming, which is very likely the least important way one can use a computer (putting aside pro gamers who earn this way).
Everything else you do on another PC, on which you seem to have a lower security needs. :-D
Yes, my gaming desktop is connected to the internet. Do I use it for surfing the internet, emails, videos, porn etc? No.

Also, your approach is rather intriguing. You use the desktop only for gaming, which is very likely the least important way one can use a computer (putting aside pro gamers who earn
That is about the most ignorant thing I've seen on the internet in a while. Obviously you don't give a shit about gaming but imagine a different reality other than yours where people do.
 
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#15
Come on, how is gaming IMPORTANT ? for most people it's a recreation, unless a psychological addiction. And how can pro gamers earn money from it? youtube?
 
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#16
Someone can steal all your passwords, your money, your data, your identity even.
What if i dont have none of them stored in my Machine?

Come on, how is gaming IMPORTANT ? for most people it's a recreation, unless a psychological addiction. And how can pro gamers earn money from it? youtube?
For me it is important.
 
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#17
Yes, my gaming desktop is connected to the internet. Do I use it for surfing the internet, emails, videos, porn etc? No.
Do you use Steam? Are you aware of the fact that it's basically a browser showing a single website? :p Much like similar apps from other game providers.

Honestly, if your PC is connected to the Internet, it can be hacked. Not using it for casual browsing lowers the risk significantly, but it's still there.
If you're using some shady 3rd party multiplayer servers, game mods or some niche apps, the risk is still high.
If you use cracks... it's almost certain. I remember how 10-20 years ago everyone was cracking games, Windows and MS Office. I was literally affraid of lending my floppy disks and flash drives. Things like this show just what a blessing read-only CDs were...
That is about the most ignorant thing I've seen on the internet in a while.
Then it's clear you don't use Internet a lot. Maybe because you stay on the gaming-only desktop most of the time. :p
Obviously you don't give a shit about gaming but imagine a different reality other than yours where people do.
Oh, I play a lot (way too much, to be honest). I haven't played anything this week because of intensive period at work, but last week it was easily 10-15h. I've just got a new game. It's called Fallout 3. ;-)
But looking at your highly emotional answer, I guess 10h/week won't impress you :)

I meant that gaming is just a recreation. One of many possible and similarly unproductive. You may love it, but your health, your knowledge and you work don't benefit from it. They could suffer, obviously. :)
So if one of your PCs is used just for gaming, than the second one is for everything else: learning, working, browsing, contacting other people, buying stuff and so on. That would make the first one more expendable, right?
Also, the gaming-only PC is not interesting for hackers. The other one is.
And how can pro gamers earn money from it? youtube?
The same way sportsmen do: from sponsors (by winning competitions or directly from companies - as their "ambassadors").
eSport is a big thing in some communities - one of them is called South Korea. :)
Streaming and getting followers is another way, but just the payment from Youtube is not that great.
Streaming on Youtube AND advertising PC/gaming gear should be pretty profitable.
 
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#18
I recalled certain patches ms released causing the os to be irrecoverable last year on 7 64, once I found that I put them on a personal blacklist.

Seems the patch needs tweaking @trog100, or the cure is much worse than the disease itself like how chemo is...
Well I have already fixed one friend pc due to it not booting post patch, an i7 2600k system and the patch wrote off my younger brothers laptop since he's too far from my tech help and had to buy a new laptop ,since his old one self reimaged to fix itself post patch( apparently footy manager 2017 is too important to wait two weeks for me to fix his old laptop, or try).
I am expecting the odd call from this and I only do tech support for a small circle not a lot really so scaling the issue up makes it appear v bad to me.
 
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#19
What if i dont have none of them stored in my Machine?
The flaws we discuss are used to leak RAM, not hard drives. You don't have to store passwords on your PC - it's enough if you simply use them.
 
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#20
I don't really much follow what's going on. Asus released BIOS update for my MB : Prime H270M and I flashed it two days ago. No errors, no dialog boxes. I don't really see a slow down of the machine. ( Kaby lake here). Keep going - Johny Walker? :D
 
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#21
it's enough if you simply use them.
My mistake, i meant i dont use any password or personal info on my Machine except Steam and Origin and if they steal those i don't care.

Oh, I play a lot (way too much, to be honest). I haven't played anything this week, last week it was easily 10-15h.
But looking at your highly emotional answer, I guess 10h/week won't impress you :)
10-15h in a week it is nothing.

Let's say i play i little bit more;)

play.PNG
 
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#22
My mistake, i meant i dont use any password or personal info on my Machine except Steam and Origin and if they steal those i don't care.
Hmm. Banking? Insurance? Gov? Healthcare? You don't use any of those online? :)
I mean... you must at least login to your e-mail from time to time, right? :p

Let's say i play i little bit more;)

View attachment 95906
Hmm.. I didn't know Steam shows that (but I recognised the font :p).
It seems my estimation was correct!
1515862528461.png
 
Joined
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#23
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#24
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#25
Someone can steal all your passwords, your money, your data, your identity even.
Seriously, no one should even think about not installing the fixes, if the PC is connected to the internet.
I hear that a lot from MS and often refuted by security experts. I did not install any of the patches on Win7 that are responsible for Win10 Upgrade push nor any of the Win10 tracking features adapted for Win7 ... . WU is set to advise of any available updates and within a week I will have examined each one, what it does and whether there is a reason to install ... or as the case may be, a reason not to install.

All the articles i have found so far address VM holes and such but have yet to see a hole demonstrated and confirmed on the desktop. The industry always has a reason to use FUD to promote sales and that's all I have seen so fare ... "could be".... "may be" .. yes I have seen those. I have not seen any such hole confirmed. Have yet to see any word of a confirmed exploit and that's the **reality** and what is on my radar.