• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Swap ROPs and TMUs for easier understanding?

Need swapping?

  • Yes. It does help understanding better.

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • No. As long as we're used to it.

    Votes: 10 76.9%

  • Total voters
    13
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
I've got a little idea. How about swapping the positon of ROPs and TMUs in our GPU-Z software? I think it's better for taking in the information since nowadays we have been used to TMUs in front and ROPs at the back.
Or is it just designed like that for a certain purpose? Well, I don't know lol. I just hope our GPU-Z to be better to use.
Thanks!
IMG_20210726_130813.jpg
 
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
293 (0.56/day)
ROPs and then TMUs is sensible, since the dawn of 3D accelerators (3Dfx Voodoo). First you got pixels and then texels that color those pixels.
3Dfx Voodoo 2 had 1 PixelFX and 2 TexelFX processors. :cool:
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
ROPs and then TMUs is sensible, since the dawn of 3D accelerators (3Dfx Voodoo). First you got pixels and then texels that color those pixels.
3Dfx Voodoo 2 had 1 PixelFX and 2 TexelFX processors. :cool:
Sorry, my bad. Maybe it's just me that tend to put larger number in front and smaller number behind. Just ignore me instead. Delete this thread if possible please. I'm sorry for the trouble.
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
23,019 (3.61/day)
Processor Core i7-8700K
Memory 32 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 3080
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
Just ignore me instead. Delete this thread if possible please. I'm sorry for the trouble.
No worries, this is actually an interesting discussion, let's see what people think
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
Actually our TPU database has been putting TMUs in front of or above ROPs, and so do many media (most of them I think) when covering specs of cards. I don't know why, either. But it seems like a smoother and more natural sequence in the order of Stream Processors, TMUs and ROPs. e.g. Navi 23, it's 2048, 128, 64, the numbers going from large to small.
I just sometimes kind of only focus on the numbers for a quick lookup and need a second look to know it's ROPs in front of TMUs. Lol.
1.png
2.png
3.png


4.png
5.png
 
Last edited:

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
23,019 (3.61/day)
Processor Core i7-8700K
Memory 32 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 3080
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Messages
64 (0.60/day)
Location
France
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B550-F
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A | Noctua NT-H2
Memory 4x 8 (32) GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600 16-16-16-36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio
Storage 1x Samsung 980 PRO 512 GB | 1x SanDisk X400 512 GB | 2x Crucial MX500 1 TB
Display(s) 2x 1440p 165Hz ASUS TUF VG27AQ
Case be quiet! Pure Base 500DX Black
Audio Device(s) HyperX Cloud Alpha
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX-750 80+ Platinum Fully Modular
Mouse ASUS ROG Chakram
Keyboard ASUS ROG Strix Flare Cherry MX Red RGB
Software EndeavourOS
I agree tbh, I'd rather have TMUs/ROPs
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
Looks like few people care about this? Don't even bother casting vote...
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,259 (0.63/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Xeon E5-1680 v2 @ 4,3GHz
Motherboard Sabertooth X79 (BIOS 4801 + NVMe mod + uCode update)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X (w/LGA 2011 kit) + 2x Delta PWM Push-Pull
Memory 4x G-Skill 2400MHz CL10 8GB (2133MHz CL9.11.11.31 CR2T @ 1,62V)
Video Card(s) Titan Xp Star Wars "Empire" edition
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB NVMe, RAID0 2x WD10EZEX (1TB), HGST HUS726060ALE610 (6TB)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case NZXT Tempest (Nanoflux/PWM fans only, some w/LEDs)
Audio Device(s) ASUS Essence ST Deluxe 7.1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
ROP number is the fastest and universal way to tell how fast a card can be (regardless of shaders/uarch inside).
^Why I don't count TMUs here ?
Because there is too much difference in speed when TMU value is the only one you look at.

In short : ROP is important value to me, so it should be first for GPU-z (I read from left to right).
Databases can do this however they see fit, it doesn't matter to me (active databases are best though [set up colums/rows however you want]).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,726 (0.37/day)
Location
Warwick
System Name PC-Chips
Processor Ryzen 5 2600x
Motherboard Asrock B450 Steel Legend
Cooling ID Cooling SE_225-XT Black
Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz OC to 3200MHz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1660 Ti SC ULTRA
Storage 2X Samsung 860 EVO SSD's 500gig / 1TB HDD
Display(s) HiSense 43inch 4k/HDR TV
Case NZXT H510
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek - Yamaha A-S501Stereo AMP - Wharfedale diamond 9.1 speakers - Wharfedale SW150 sub
Power Supply Cooler Master G650M
Mouse logitech G402
Keyboard KLIM cheapo thing
VR HMD Oculus Rift S
Software Windows 10 pro 64bit
leave it as it is don't see the point in changing things that have been the same for years.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Messages
64 (0.60/day)
Location
France
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B550-F
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A | Noctua NT-H2
Memory 4x 8 (32) GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600 16-16-16-36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio
Storage 1x Samsung 980 PRO 512 GB | 1x SanDisk X400 512 GB | 2x Crucial MX500 1 TB
Display(s) 2x 1440p 165Hz ASUS TUF VG27AQ
Case be quiet! Pure Base 500DX Black
Audio Device(s) HyperX Cloud Alpha
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX-750 80+ Platinum Fully Modular
Mouse ASUS ROG Chakram
Keyboard ASUS ROG Strix Flare Cherry MX Red RGB
Software EndeavourOS
Change bad
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
2,465 (0.59/day)
I won't obsess since I'm an amateur enthusiast, but I always considered gpus the same as a hobby. The same as people liken to racing cars eventhough they don't daily drive them, so it is something you surf the internet to develop on.
The most consistent paraphrase will come from Nvidia for this instance imo, since they deliberately state on chip communication is 32 times more efficient than off chip communication to memory modules. That makes ROPs 32 times more dedicated than TMU performance which sets clear boundaries between hardware tiers. Rops do, indeed, mark the flagship of the line up; eventhough performance comes from harnessing the frontend better like Nvidia does, generally.
TL;DR: That Cores:TMU:ROP order comes from the frontend backend differentiation of the gpu pipeline, not anything else.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
TMU:ROP order comes from the frontend backend differentiation of the gpu pipeline
ROP number is the fastest and universal way to tell how fast a card can be
ROP is important value
Since TMUs:ROPs comes from the frontend and backend in the pipeline, I think TMUs in front of ROPs is a more natural and more logical way to show specs of a card, following the way how modern graphics cards work. As for the importance, as long as we know that ROP is more important, we can just simply directly focus on the number of ROPs, in which case its position becomes less important.
In conclusion, I'd like to put things in a more logical way if it's part of how things work.
Thanks.

Imagine this everyday life scenario:
There're a couple of things that have nothing to do with each other. Then I tend to put the most important or the most expensive/valuable/precious one in their centre.
DVDs of Fast and Furious. I tend to put them in their own order, instead of how I think it's good or bad.
And also, contents such as in a textbook are written in their logical order, and the important ones are often marked bold.
That should make my points clear.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
2,465 (0.59/day)
In conclusion, I'd like to put things in a more logical way if it's part of how things work.
Thanks.
There is nothing wrong with your train of thought, only that it is a software computer engineer's point of view, imo. Not a hardware computer engineer's which is, if you attended any presentations on the subject, is what they talk about as a hard line approach distinction between them.
PS: it is a running joke people who design hardware have no frame of reference how it is meant to work. :p

TL;DR: it is the 'formal' way to do so, not practical.

2nd PS: one analogy,
Hardware engineers are like the Renault engineers who invented turbo manifolds in F1 racing in 1970s. In 1980's they were synonymous with engine fires, but if it weren't for Renault we wouldn't have turbo... Same with hardware folk...
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
PS: it is a running joke people who design hardware have no frame of reference how it is meant to work.
TL;DR: it is the 'formal' way to do so, not practical.
I get your idea. Thanks. Actually I don't mind ROPs in front at all.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
2,465 (0.59/day)
I get your idea. Thanks. Actually I don't mind ROPs in front at all.
Lol, now that we are settled, let me diverge with more boring details.
It is rational to assume what works and what doesn't at each generation has proper communication channels in the company and is properly addressed. That might be so, in a more practically sensible company, but not for AMD. They do it by the engineering rulebook.

For the longest time AMD resisted calling their shaders deferred rendering optimised and insisted calling them forward rendering optimised which has the resounding name of a frontend oriented architecture. It is not. They have a backend first architecture with ROPs galore. Until Nvidia handed them with the new +500MHz gpu interconnect, they never had enough hp to run a fully utilised deferred rendering pipeline as it is supposed to be a frontend first pipeline(fast gpu, slow vram).
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
Current vote result: 3 Yes (including me) / 8 No. It seems that there's really no need to swap...
 

T4C Fantasy

CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
2,480 (0.72/day)
Location
Rhode Island
System Name Whaaaat Kiiiiiiid!
Processor Intel Core i9-9900K @ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Ultra
Cooling Corsair H150i AIO Cooler
Memory Corsair Dominator Platinum 32GB DDR4-3200
Video Card(s) Zotac GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan @ 2040MHz
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512GB + Crucial MX300 512GB + OCZ Vertex 4 256GB
Display(s) 27" LG 27MU67-B 4K, + 27" Acer Predator XB271HU 1440P
Case Thermaltake Core X9 Snow
Audio Device(s) Logitech G935 Headset
Power Supply SeaSonic Platinum 1050W Snow Silent
Mouse Logitech G903 Lightspeed
Keyboard Logitech G915
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores FFXV: 19329
@T4C Fantasy your thoughts on this?
I agree to keep it Shaders / TMUs / ROPs

its the media standard and our database standard.

the issue is space in GPU-Z if it had room to move around i would prefer it show all 3 configs in 1 line
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
23,019 (3.61/day)
Processor Core i7-8700K
Memory 32 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 3080
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
the issue is space in GPU-Z if it had room to move around i would prefer it show all 3 configs in 1 line
The thing is that the shaders field is used to show Pixel & Vertex shaders on older cards, so it needs more space
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
110 (0.32/day)
Location
Earth, Solar System
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi)
Cooling Thermalright AS120, Arctic P12, Arctic F12
Memory Crucial BL8G32C16U4W.M8FE1 ×2
Video Card(s) Asus Radeon RX 6600 XT Dual OC
Storage Samsung MZVLB1T0HBLR-000L2, Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102
Display(s) AOC I2490PXH5
Case Huntkey GS409
Audio Device(s) Somic G923
Power Supply EVGA 650 GD
Mouse Logitech G102
Keyboard Logitech K845 TTC Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro 1903, Dism++
Benchmark Scores CPU-Z 17.01.64: 3700X @ 4.6 GHz 1.3375 V scoring 557/6206; 760K @ 5 GHz 1.5 V scoring 292/964
Top