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Team Group T-Create Expert 2 TB

W1zzard

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The Team Group T-Create Expert comes with 12 years of warranty and a mind-boggling 12,000 TBW endurance rating. That's 12 Petabytes, probably more than all the data you've consumed in your life up to this point. We take a closer look at the chips they use and run it through our extensive real-life testing suite.

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Looking at the specs on Page 1 of the article:

DRAM? Check.
TLC instead of QLC? Check.
Known-decent controller? Check.

I predict zero surprises; Time to read the article.

I predict zero surprises; Time to read the article.
Performance is as unexcitingly-average as I expected, but I was wrong about the surprises - holy shit that pricetag is just plain stupid.
Snake oil for rich idiots who think expensive means it must be good.
 
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What a joke product lmao
 
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Disappointed they didn't do a 12,000 TB burn test.
 
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…but 12PBW is the main selling point
Heh, exactly. The thing is, the NAND and the controller used don't even justify that 12PBW value at all. They just made it up to give it a USP for chumps who aren't smart enough to know better.

Crucial's own P5 2TB using a premium bin of the exact same 96-layer Micron TLC NAND is only rated at 1.2PBW, and I'll trust Micron to know what their own product is and isn't capable of more than some snake oil merchants spinning lies to make a speedy buck. Sure, there are some controller differences but Phison, SM, and Micron's own Phison-based controller are all pretty comparable in terms of wear-levelling and write amplification. Breaking the laws of physics doesn't seem like something that a tier-2 Chinese ODM like TeamGroup are going to be doing using third-party, off-the-shelf components. Telling fibs and wildly-inaccurate marketing on the other hand are par for the course in this industry.
 
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Too expensive, a Transcend MTE220S 2TB (4.4PB TBW, 3,5GB/s read & 2,7GB/s write) is just fine for 1/3 of the price, it may be slower than SN850 but at least is $130 cheaper and have nearly 4x the TBW rating
 
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To hit 12PB over 12 years is 2.73TB per day. It's possible 2TB of NAND would hold up to around that number but it's another issue entirely to believe that Team Group will honor warranty on something like this ten years from now.
You better read the fine print of that warranty.

I've seen SSDs eat up their endurance rating with lots of small writes, so be aware that 12PB of "writes" may not be 12PB of files written.

Heh, exactly. The thing is, the NAND and the controller used don't even justify that 12PBW value at all. They just made it up to give it a USP for chumps who aren't smart enough to know better.
The best MLC SSD (Samsung 970 PRO) has an endurance rating 1.200 TBW for 1 TB, and everyone who knows a bit about storage knows TLC has a tiny fraction of the endurance of MLC. So the endurance rating of this T-Create Expert 2 TB of 12.000 TBW is an obvious bogus claim, no matter how smart their SLC caching claims to be. Unfortunately TBW endurance ratings are going the way if MTBF, they just inflate the numbers every generation to the point where it has no meaning any more.

So I don't like that this ridiculous endurance rating is graded as "fantastic" in the review. Team Group knows very well that no reviewer is realistically able to bust this claim, so they can really pick any number they want.

And this isn't the fastest PCIe 3 SSD as claimed either, that's Samsung 970 PRO, even the 512 GB version is beating this T-Create Expert 2 TB. It's even arguable that the 970 PRO is the very best SSD on the market, depending on how you weigh the results, as it's more reliable and has more consistent performance. If only Samsung chose to make a PCIe 4 version of the 970 PRO(MLC) with an updated controller, they would have ruled all the other SSDs in this review.
 
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Is it possible the 512GB modules are actually 2TB with 3/4 of the module dedicated to overprovisioning to meet the endurance rating? Either that or they charge $400 for a SSD worth 1/3 that price because they know they will need to RMA each drive twice.

Whichever reviewer does a failure test will definitely get all the press.
 

W1zzard

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Is it possible the 512GB modules are actually 2TB with 3/4 of the module dedicated to overprovisioning
Haven't found any hint of that, I looked. Also the "fill whole drive" curve is identical to EX950 (check my review)
 
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First 300 GB, 2.5 GB/s
Next 700 GB, 1.3 GB/s
Last 1000 GB, 0.6 GB/s

38.75 minutes to fill drive.
161.5 days to write 12 PB.

That is definitely too long for a launch review, but the product will still be marketed if you write til it dies, even if that takes 6 months. If it dies after 1 month you’ll have a good story.
 
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Haven't found any hint of that, I looked. Also the "fill whole drive" curve is identical to EX950 (check my review)
Out of interest, where did you get the "Micron 64-layer 3D TLC B17A" info from, since TeamGroup wipe the original NAND markings to etch their own branding onto it instead.
 

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certainly getting the drive a lot of attention with the big warranty and life expectancy
 

W1zzard

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certainly getting the drive a lot of attention with the big warranty and life expectancy
If only the price was somewhat realistic
 

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Out of interest, where did you get the "Micron 64-layer 3D TLC B17A" info from, since TeamGroup wipe the original NAND markings to etch their own branding onto it instead.
I can answer that: there are tools that will identify the flash.

It actually seems like this is B17A with superior endurance characteristics, that is Micron FortisMax rather than FortisFlash, which has been used in industrial SSDs rated up to 10K P/E (pure TLC/native mode) or 40K P/E (pure SLC mode). TLC in SLC mode has higher endurance and there are drives that are entirely and permanently in SLC mode (or "pSLC"), however static SLC and dynamic SLC modes for partial-SLC drives also will have higher endurance (static moreso than dynamic). In any case, capable of hitting this TBW.
 

W1zzard

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It actually seems like this is B17A with superior endurance characteristics, that is Micron FortisMax rather than FortisFlash
I verified this by comparing with the datasheets from Micron, Maxx is correct. Will think about implications and update the review accordingly
 
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I can answer that: there are tools that will identify the flash.

It actually seems like this is B17A with superior endurance characteristics, that is Micron FortisMax rather than FortisFlash, which has been used in industrial SSDs rated up to 10K P/E (pure TLC/native mode) or 40K P/E (pure SLC mode). TLC in SLC mode has higher endurance and there are drives that are entirely and permanently in SLC mode (or "pSLC"), however static SLC and dynamic SLC modes for partial-SLC drives also will have higher endurance (static moreso than dynamic). In any case, capable of hitting this TBW.
So *not* snake oil, just irrelevant for the consumer market. I guess if idiots want reassurances that they'll never wear out the NAND then they can pay for it. Whether it's even possible for a single consumer to wear out the NAND is another matter. That controller and TLC's raw write rates mean that it would require almost a synthetic continuous-write experiment left running permanently with with specific goal of wearing out the NAND, rather than using it for its intended purpose.

Thanks for the detailed update though.
 
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maybe this is aimed at prebuilts to trick tech illiterate folks into paying $5000 for "top of the line workstation".
That's exactly who it's aimed at. Anyone who knows enough to buy an SSD to install themselves isn't going to buy this overpriced BS. But, but, it's professional.
 
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