Temps from FX to Ryzen, What is GOING ON?

[Splinterdog]

...and lets not forget when AMD brought in Thermal Margin, which my head simply would never get itself around.
When I see a temperature on HW Monitor of 8c and the room is 26c, I scratch my head and then remember Thermal Margin and AMD Overdive.

 

[biffzinker]

 

[king of swag187]

FX doesn't display temps properly due to AyyMD using a custom scale that gets marginally more accurate the hotter you get.
No idea how you managed to a push a Ryzen CPU that hot, even with a tinfoil POS heatsink, its a mobile based arch that runs cool and clocks low

 

[Bones]

Noticed the difference myself between the two and I also was like "WTF" over temps but after seeing they do run hotter with no issues I just went with it.
I did upgrade the cooler over the Wraith with a Scythe and it helped but not by alot - But hey, I'll take what I can get short of doing water on my daily.

 

[trickson]

Noticed the difference myself between the two and I also was like "WTF" over temps but after seeing they do run hotter with no issues I just went with it.
I did upgrade the cooler over the Wraith with a Scythe and it helped but not by alot - But hey, I'll take what I can get short of doing water on my daily.

H100i

I am thinking of getting this, is this thing any good at removing heat , keeping the CPU below 85 and even 91c?
I am wondering if there really is anything that can.

 

[Bones]

There is but you'll have to do a little on your part to make it work.
As it was with the FX 9590 AMD tends to overshoot what it really needs to run (Based on stock speeds) and that's just how they do it.
Note my chip is a 2700X instead of a 1700X.

I did drop voltage manually from where it was to about 1.21v's in the BIOS and it runs fine that way, you'll have to see what your chip needs to run where you want it to be and go from there. If you've tried all that already then big air or water would be the next step. The Noctua cooler mentioned would be good but I'd do better than the H100i, get a unit with a rad having at least three fans instead of just two for better cooling capacity.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

A few other things to consider, the transistor density of Ryzen is considerably higher than the FX chip. More transistor density means more thermal density—the CPU will heat up quicker and then start throttling once it reaches the thermal limits. In this case, the later generations of boost technology will allow a CPU to bump up to this limit with boost clocks before dropping to the rated “all core” speed. As long as it is thermally safe to do so, the chip will boost beyond that speed. Another point is that GPUs have long had this 85C+ thermal limit with no problem, so this higher temperature doesn’t mean that your CPU is going to melt through the socket. The technology is simply different after a few generations, and unlimately it is about the chip performing as advertised. AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA all have a rated max-temp, but I don’t believe any of them throw out an “ideal” operating temp. The chips protect themselves if cooling is insufficient.

 

[trickson]

A few other things to consider, the transistor density of Ryzen is considerably higher than the FX chip. More transistor density means more thermal density—the CPU will heat up quicker and then start throttling once it reaches the thermal limits. In this case, the later generations of boost technology will allow a CPU to bump up to this limit with boost clocks before dropping to the rated “all core” speed. As long as it is thermally safe to do so, the chip will boost beyond that speed. Another point is that GPUs have long had this 85C+ thermal limit with no problem, so this higher temperature doesn’t mean that your CPU is going to melt through the socket. The technology is simply different after a few generations, and unlimately it is about the chip performing as advertised. AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA all have a rated max-temp, but I don’t believe any of them throw out an “ideal” operating temp. The chips protect themselves if cooling is insufficient.

Shacka when the walls fell.

Timba, his arms wide.

Zaulock and Jalad at Tinagra!

 

[spectatorx]

That's normal. FX cpus had pretty low temperatures while ryzens are hotter but within reasonable and coolable by most cpu coolers. I observed the same thing when i upgraded my own pc. Here you can see the differences:

 

[Mussels]

H100i

I am thinking of getting this, is this thing any good at removing heat , keeping the CPU below 85 and even 91c?
I am wondering if there really is anything that can.

if you're running stupid settings on ryzen, especially first gen they'll just run hot - the thermal throttle will keep it as hot as you feed it.
They had single core boost lower than the all core clocks for a reason, and that reason is heat.

my 2700x with a h115i (the 280mm version of the one you linked) still runs at around 70c on STOCK SETTINGS.

Better cooling will get you better clocks, but may not get better temps due to the way the boost works - and it wont help much at all (if at all) if you're running a manual, all-core OC because you were probably at the OC ceiling of a first gen ryzen.
Getting a 1700 above 4GHz is a dream anyway, very few people can do that.

 

[trickson]

if you're running stupid settings on ryzen, especially first gen they'll just run hot - the thermal throttle will keep it as hot as you feed it.
They had single core boost lower than the all core clocks for a reason, and that reason is heat.

my 2700x with a h115i (the 280mm version of the one you linked) still runs at around 70c on STOCK SETTINGS.

Better cooling will get you better clocks, but may not get better temps due to the way the boost works - and it wont help much at all (if at all) if you're running a manual, all-core OC because you were probably at the OC ceiling of a first gen ryzen.
Getting a 1700 above 4GHz is a dream anyway, very few people can do that.

One thing is for sure I did not buy the MB, RAM , Video card and CPU NOT to overclock them, After all this is top of the line equipment meant to do just what it is doing. I can get to 4.1GHz but the Voltage and subsequent heat production over powers my tiny 4 heat pipe air cooler, They are amazing Chip's and I will find a way the Big air coolers seem to be what I need.

I can't wait for the day AMD installs thermal electric cooling into the chips themselves. That would be so cool.

 

[biffzinker]

Your attempting to overclock Zen that was made on Global Foundries 14/12nm Low Power Process. Running your 1700 at 4 GHz puts it at or outside the sweet spot of clockspeed, voltage, and power consumed. The lithographic process tech used was geared towards fabricating a ARM smartphone SoC. With TSMC's 7nm process hopefully clockspeed moves up from a maximum of 4,250 MHz for Zen/Zen+

 

[eidairaman1]

I'd be willing to bet the temps on your FX chip are much higher in reality than what that sensor reports. Those sensors were terrible, didn't even read the core temps at all... and it wasn't an uncommon thing for them to even report temps below ambient...

My temps on my rig were correct 43 idle, 55 gaming, 75 on blender.

Course running it at 5.0 with 1.476vcore that rises to 1.524 on blender

 

[king of swag187]

Again, people have seemed to gloss over it, so I'll throw it out there again, but FX doesn't read temperature correctly due to AMD's custom scale used, based on not Kelvins, Celsius, or Fahrenheit. Dunno how he managed 90C+ on a Ryzen chip though

 

[biffzinker]

Dunno how he managed 90C+ on a Ryzen chip though

Not enough thermal paste, poor quality paste, bad mount, and paste didn't spread out.

Edit: The heatsink is under speced for a high TDP octa core CPU.

 

[Basard]

+1 to Fouquin's last post.

I seem to remember my old FX-8300 idling WELL below ambient temps. The sensors on those chips were garbage. Mine would sit below 60C @ 4.6-4.7Ghz, I think vcore was 1.45 or something. Yet still a TON of heat would come out the back of the case---probably because a most of the heat was actually leaving the chip. At stock speeds the 8300 was a very modest chip, especially with a good cooler.

Heat gets trapped more in newer chips because so much is crammed into a smaller package. I dunno, newer chips can safely run hotter than old chips.... Either that or the sensors are more accurate--hence the 115c temps on the Radeon VII.

Intel chips can also run a 5Ghz all day long--at 95C, unless you delid/liquid metal. Mine runs below 70C--literally all day long, at 4.3-4.4Ghz, crunching while I'm at work. My case is probably pretty loud compared to most people's. I've gotta pretty large cooler on it, same one I used for my FX chip.

Nothing to see here... move on.... or just buy a bigger cooler/remount your current cooler.

 

[Melvis]

I have both the FX 8350 and Ryzen 2700X on stock coolers and they never get over 70c, mid 60's most of the time flat out.

Hows your air flow in your case?

 

[Vayra86]

So I got this on my FX 8300 System. I was doing this to compare temps from my Ryzen systems.
View attachment 120801

I got to say this FX CPU is WAY COOLER than the Ryzen CPU's. Hell I seen 91C running this test on my Ryzen 7 1700.

Granted the FX has a Cooler Master V8 cooler but still. The R7 1700 is tapped out Can not go Higher than the 4.0Ghz.

Is it just me or are the Ryzen Chips just way more "heat sensitive"?
They seem to heat up way faster and the heat is way harder to get rid of. It is literally incrementally based on the frequency of the chip it seems. for every 100 MGHz there is a 10*c rise in the temperature of the silicon No matter what I do the temps are so close to the top end it's just utterly frustrating! I mean I really have NEVER seem this before in ANY CPU offering from AMD. This may not be a huge issue, BUT I think it is.
I may have to go liquid.
Intel is not having this issue is it?
Intel can hit 5.0+GHz all day long AMD can't pass 4.1GHz on a good day!

I am not trying to knock the Chip or anything it's just,, What the HELL is AMD doing?
The only thing I can think of is poor silicon, Silicon valley must be running out of good stuff and now this is it? (LOL)

Any thoughts on this?
I am NOT going to back off the OC ON any machine I have. I built them with all the BEST parts I could Get (Best my money could get me. My Opinion for the money I had at the time).
I'll tell you what I wont back off any OC till the smoke clears! LOL.....

Every node shrink increases density = more power per mm2. This means the peak temp is higher, but that heat also gets moved out to the heatsink faster (because higher temp delta). You're also looking at radically different CPUs and even your cooling is different.

What'd you expect here But to answer your question; we already saw this higher heat and higher sensitivity to it since 22nm Ivy Bridge. At the same time, FX also has a much lower temperature cap than Zen or Intel Core does. Times have changed abit.

 

[Splinterdog]

my 2700x with a h115i (the 280mm version of the one you linked) still runs at around 70c on STOCK SETTINGS.

Is that under load or idle?

 

[Mussels]

Is that under load or idle?

linpack load, jesus 70c idle would be a nightmare lol

 

[phill]

I've two air coolers on my 1700X's at home, both not properly mounted but with a single fan on each of them. One is a 14D cooler and the other is some 140mm Phantek cooler, under 100% load with WCG, I can't get the temps above 55C on the 14D and about 52C on the Phantek, so if your using a H100i and your hitting 91C, there's something definitely wrong there.. Check the mount, thermal paste and make sure all is setup correctly, as everyone has suggested.. Post up some pictures if you like

 

[EarthDog]

So I got this on my FX 8300 System. I was doing this to compare temps from my Ryzen systems.
View attachment 120801

I got to say this FX CPU is WAY COOLER than the Ryzen CPU's. Hell I seen 91C running this test on my Ryzen 7 1700.

Granted the FX has a Cooler Master V8 cooler but still. The R7 1700 is tapped out Can not go Higher than the 4.0Ghz.

Is it just me or are the Ryzen Chips just way more "heat sensitive"?
They seem to heat up way faster and the heat is way harder to get rid of. It is literally incrementally based on the frequency of the chip it seems. for every 100 MGHz there is a 10*c rise in the temperature of the silicon No matter what I do the temps are so close to the top end it's just utterly frustrating! I mean I really have NEVER seem this before in ANY CPU offering from AMD. This may not be a huge issue, BUT I think it is.
I may have to go liquid.
Intel is not having this issue is it?
Intel can hit 5.0+GHz all day long AMD can't pass 4.1GHz on a good day!

I am not trying to knock the Chip or anything it's just,, What the HELL is AMD doing?
The only thing I can think of is poor silicon, Silicon valley must be running out of good stuff and now this is it? (LOL)

Any thoughts on this?
I am NOT going to back off the OC ON any machine I have. I built them with all the BEST parts I could Get (Best my money could get me. My Opinion for the money I had at the time).
I'll tell you what I wont back off any OC till the smoke clears! LOL.....

Didnt we go over this at OCF already trickson? Where the discussion of heat and temperature were brought up and clarified already???

Ryzen offset, chip density etc... all covered. TPU said the same things.

https://www.overclockers.com/forums...It-is-here!!?p=8112258&viewfull=1#post8112258

 

[PHaS3]

Didnt we go over this at OCF already trickson? Where the discussion of heat and temperature were brought up and clarified already???

Ryzen offset, chip density etc... all covered. TPU said the same things.

https://www.overclockers.com/forums...It-is-here!!?p=8112258&viewfull=1#post8112258

Always a similar topic with this dude, in the Ryzen Zen Garden thread too. Throws a fat rage, calls all AMD CPUs shit, then goes quiet for a while. Its a pattern.

My 1700 @ 4025MHz @1.425Vcore (in specs) tops out at 70°C rendering in Resolve, full CPU load, with my H105 and tuned fan curves. No problems.

 

[trickson]

Always a similar topic with this dude, in the Ryzen Zen Garden thread too. Throws a fat rage, calls all AMD CPUs shit, then goes quiet for a while. Its a pattern.

My 1700 @ 4025MHz @1.425Vcore (in specs) tops out at 70°C rendering in Resolve, full CPU load, with my H105 and tuned fan curves. No problems.

LMAO. Yeah I call them shit ,That's why I own 3 AMD systems, NO YOU call them shit , slow and things like that trying to always knock them down against Intel's Always AND I MEAN always posting Intel's faster than your AMD CPU score IN EVERYTHING. (I know you will not understand what I am saying here as well.) Then after all that bashing I get totally pissed and concede to YOUR will and talk the way talk about it and this some how surprises you? For know it all's you all are really dumb.
I Can post where I want and get different views and opinions and even others that may NOT be there HERE. Plus I do not get email notifications and alerts like I do from this forum.
You know?
So with "THIS Dude" it is what it is like it or stop posting in my threads? It is like a personal attract really, A micro aggression and a bully tactic designed to point out I am stupid and unless I meat your expetiez then I am shit.. So I can't post what I want where I want? I can not talk about things unless you YOUR glorious all knowing know it all say's it is okay?
And you wonder why I leave?

IT IS BECAUSE OF YOU!

Any way I do understand a bit better from the people here now that there is a lot more to this "heat" than I thought and for that I thank you.
I will need some better cooling for sure And yes I do run it at 4.0GHz 1.38 Vcore this does get hot when fully loaded (85c) but it could be because I have topped out the HSf or even poor sensors and things built in that are making it read higher to prevent morons like me from burnning a house down. And could also be just the way it runs no biggie really I can live with it if the CPU can LOL.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

LMAO. Yeah I call them shit ,That's why I own 3 AMD systems, NO YOU call them shit , slow and things like that trying to always knock them down against Intel's Always AND I MEAN always posting Intel's faster than your AMD CPU score IN EVERYTHING. (I know you will not understand what I am saying here as well.) Then after all that bashing I get totally pissed and concede to YOUR will and talk the way talk about it and this some how surprises you? For know it all's you all are really dumb.
I Can post where I want and get different views and opinions and even others that may NOT be there HERE. Plus I do not get email notifications and alerts like I do from this forum.
You know?
So with "THIS Dude" it is what it is like it or stop posting in my threads? It is like a personal attract really, A micro aggression and a bully tactic designed to point out I am stupid and unless I meat your expetiez then I am shit.. So I can't post what I want where I want? I can not talk about things unless you YOUR glorious all knowing know it all say's it is okay?
And you wonder why I leave?

IT IS BECAUSE OF YOU!

Any way I do understand a bit better from the people here now that there is a lot more to this "heat" than I thought and for that I thank you.
I will need some better cooling for sure And yes I do run it at 4.0GHz 1.38 Vcore this does get hot when fully loaded (85c) but it could be because I have topped out the HSf or even poor sensors and things built in that are making it read higher to prevent morons like me from burnning a house down. And could also be just the way it runs no biggie really I can live with it if the CPU can LOL.

Dude playing fair you do come across quite angry and just called us all dumb, some were genuinely trying to help.
Chill out a bit.