• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Terminilogy behind "cheaper"?

Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
84 (1.15/day)
Hi I have a question about terminology of the word "cheaper" in cpus. On a certain other site I have seen a person tell another person about a general opinion to replace his AMD Phenom II x4 with Ryzen 5 1600. I have gone and looked up prices of used cpus for example in my country and currently Phenom II x4 Black Edition is around 61 euro or cheaper, while Ryzen 5 1600 is around 160 euro. The 1600 also has a higher power draw. My question is how can the 1600 be considered cheaper if it is not?
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,609 (0.41/day)
Location
Warwick
System Name PC-Chips
Processor Intel core I5 4690K
Motherboard Asrock z87 Extreme 3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory G-Skill Ripjaws 2133mhz 4x4gig
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX-480 Nitro+ 8gig
Storage Samsung 250gig 840 SSD / 1TB HDD
Display(s) Samsung C27F591 27 inch Curved LED
Case NZXT phantom 410
Audio Device(s) Realtek digital out - Yamaha A-S501 - Wharfedale pacific evo 20 speakers - Wharfedale SW150 sub
Power Supply Cooler Master G650M
Mouse logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech delux 250
Software Windows 10 pro 64bit
Because when you look at the cost of Phenom II x4 Black Edition when it fist came out it cost just as much if not more than Ryzen 5 1600 and in games and benchmarks the newer Ryzen 5 1600 will spank the helll out of a Phenom II x4 Black Edition and in every other modern workload.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
701 (0.48/day)
Location
Croatia
Processor Core i5-2400 @3,1 GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H
Cooling LC Power LC-CC-95
Memory HyperX Genesis 2x4GB @1333 MHz
Video Card(s) Palit GTX 750 Ti StormX OC 2GB
Storage WD Blue 1TB/ Crucial BX500 120GB/ Seagate 500GB
Display(s) ASUS VW190DE
Case Deepcool Smarter /w 2x Zalman 1000RPM
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply FSP Hexa+ 400W
Mouse Microsoft WMO 1.1A
Keyboard IBM KB-8926
Software W7 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Turns on on the first try! Usually.
Hi I have a question about terminology of the word "cheaper" in cpus. On a certain other site I have seen a person tell another person about a general opinion to replace his AMD Phenom II x4 with Ryzen 5 1600. I have gone and looked up prices of used cpus for example in my country and currently Phenom II x4 Black Edition is around 61 euro or cheaper, while Ryzen 5 1600 is around 160 euro. The 1600 also has a higher power draw. My question is how can the 1600 be considered cheaper if it is not?
The 1600 does not have a higher power draw, since it's rated for 65W whereas most Phenom II X4s I know are 95W and more.
Regarding the "cheaper" part I'm not exactly sure what that person meant. Maybe it's considered a cheaper part among the newer CPUs, and that is true. Buying a Phenom CPU these days, outside some specific cases, makes no sense and could be considered poor value.
 
Low quality post by potato580+
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
763 (10.31/day)
System Name just ordinary potato system, but dont understimate potato..
Processor ryzen raven ridge 2200g
Motherboard msi b350 pc mate
Cooling x2 cheap china handmade
Memory klevv dual channel 3000mhz (upto 3800 bcox it is abt hynix)
Video Card(s) vega 8/56, favorite 580 nitro / red devil
Storage wd green ssd 240gb, 3tb seagate expnasion, random laptop hdd x4, 1tb 3.5
Display(s) acer vgo 22inch fullhd 75hz
Case cheap segotep/dazumba mid atx, alcatroz mini atx
Audio Device(s) genius retro wood style, harman kardon stick iii
Power Supply be quite system power9, powerlogic standar, voltron 300fx
Mouse rexus, genius ps/2, powerlogic ps/2 ball tracking
Keyboard rexus, random china product x3
Software talking abt best software, autodesk/unity3d/notepad yes notepad!!
Benchmark Scores theres nothing to brag abt potato, but it can run decent 30fps fullhd with good setting:)
just becous its cheaper than the other, it doesnt mean its cheap, thats it:rolleyes:

134075
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,160 (0.56/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair
Processor R5 3600 (stock boost, FCLK/UCLK 1833)
Motherboard Asus Prime X470 Pro
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 3200c16 (micron rev. E@3666 16-21/18-18)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 Ti SC
Storage 860EVO 500GB, WD Red 3TB, and other stuff
Display(s) BenQ XL2430T, Dell P2417H
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s) Behringer Xenyx Q1002USB, ATH-M50x, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Logitech G502, Razer Gigantus
Keyboard Corsair K70 (MX Blues, dying blue lights)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
At the same clock speed for 4c4t ryzen is around 20-30% faster, considering the 1600 is a 6c12t part it is not far from 3x more powerful, hence the difference in value.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
6,074 (1.25/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
Not sure what your native language is but it should be noted there are two major and often totally unrelated definitions for the word "cheaper".

Definition 1: Less expensive.
Definition 2: Lower quality.

If Amazon sells the Ryzen 5 1600 for $110 and Newegg sells the same Ryzen 5 1600 for $115, Amazon is "cheaper" - but that has nothing to do with "quality".

So we really need to know the full context of the original comments.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
84 (1.15/day)
So we really need to know the full context of the original comments.
It was a conversation about the crashing of CODE VEIN. One person with the Phenom said he cant launch it. Another replied to him that he should "go buy a 1600, its cheaper and better performance". Others shared the opinion. While I had no question about performance of course, I didnt quite understand what he meant by "cheaper", hence my search for price info.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
6,074 (1.25/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
117 (0.04/day)
In that context, I assume that by "cheap" he was referring to the "cheapest substantial upgrade" which solely boils down to performance per dollar. The cheapest upgrade to run code vein well, to be precise.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
6,074 (1.25/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
Cheap really is a poor choice of words here - because it has so many meanings. It could be based on fact, for example $10 is cheaper than $15, or as refillable notes, "measurable" performance per dollar.

I add "measurable" because cheap could also be a matter of personal opinion or perception based only on a person's likes.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
492 (1.70/day)
Location
Chicago Land
Processor 2700X @ x4 4400Mhz
Motherboard Asus B450-I Gaming
Cooling Stock Air
Memory Corsair 3000nhz 13-15-15-15-32-53 2T
Video Card(s) Asus strix GTX 980 OC
Storage SSD
Display(s) 21" - 55"
Case None
Power Supply Antec CP series 850w
Mouse Razar Mamba Tournament Edition
Keyboard Logitech G910
Software W7
Benchmark Scores Max Cpu clock 7685Mhz FX-8300 WPrime 32m 2.886 seconds AMD 2700x
In that context, I assume that by "cheap" he was referring to the "cheapest substantial upgrade" which solely boils down to performance per dollar. The cheapest upgrade to run code vein well, to be precise.
Problem is that a 1600 would not be the "cheapest" upgrade when you can get Ryzen Athlons for around 50$ (give/take) or even look at 2400G for example, would be "cheaper" upgrade path.

Perhaps the use of "cheaper" should have dropper the eeerrrr at the end and used the word "cheap" as in, "get a Ryzen 1600, it would be a **cheap upgrade"
Something along that line I imagine.

But you can even get a Ryzen 1400 and it would be a "cheaper" upgrade than a Ryzen 1600. The Ryzen Athlon is Cheap and cheaper in comparison.

Now that I've read and typed the word cheap so many times, I'm not going to use it for a while. lol.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
15,952 (3.18/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 3 1200
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling AMD Wraith Stealth
Memory 2 x 8GB G-skill Aegis 3000 or somesuch
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case Some old Antec
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + slightly modded Sony DR-ZX302
Power Supply Fractal Design Effekt 400W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX-Board 3.0
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores I once had +100 dorfs in DF, so yeah pretty great
Problem is that a 1600 would not be the "cheapest" upgrade when you can get Ryzen Athlons for around 50$ (give/take) or even look at 2400G for example, would be "cheaper" upgrade path.

Perhaps the use of "cheaper" should have dropper the eeerrrr at the end and used the word "cheap" as in, "get a Ryzen 1600, it would be a **cheap upgrade"
Something along that line I imagine.

But you can even get a Ryzen 1400 and it would be a "cheaper" upgrade than a Ryzen 1600. The Ryzen Athlon is Cheap and cheaper in comparison.

Now that I've read and typed the word cheap so many times, I'm not going to use it for a while. lol.
The Ryzen 1200 is about €50 where I live. Decent overclocking too!
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
47,459 (8.59/day)
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Big Fella
Processor Ryzen R7 2700X (stock/XFR OC)
Motherboard Asus B450-i ITX
Cooling Corsair H110 W/ Corsair ML RGB fans
Memory 16GB DDR4 3200 Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS mod to Gaming Z) w/ Corsair H55 AIO
Storage 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000 Pro NVME
Display(s) Phillips 328m6fjrmb (32" 1440p 144hz curved) + Sony KD-55X8500F (55" 4K HDR)
Case Fractal Design Nano S
Audio Device(s) Razer Leviathan + Corsair Void pro RGB, Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G903 + PowerPlay mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
Someone else would have suggested a different CPU upgrade, and he said the 1600 was cheaper than that suggestion - not the CPU he currently has
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
1,618 (1.74/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Biostar X370GTN
Cooling Custom CPU+GPU water loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3200 C16
Video Card(s) AMD R9 Fury X
Storage 500GB 960 Evo (OS ++), 500GB 850 Evo (Games)
Display(s) Dell U2711
Case NZXT H200i
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Lenovo Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint
Software Windows 10 Pro
It was a conversation about the crashing of CODE VEIN. One person with the Phenom said he cant launch it. Another replied to him that he should "go buy a 1600, its cheaper and better performance". Others shared the opinion. While I had no question about performance of course, I didnt quite understand what he meant by "cheaper", hence my search for price info.
That sure sounds like what @Mussels said above; that someone before this had suggested a different CPU as an upgrade (probably something like an i5-9400 or Ryzen 5 3600, though I'm guessing wildly here) and that the suggestion of the Ryzen 5 1600 was then a cheaper option than the previous suggestion. Nothing can be cheaper than something you already own, unless you're factoring in running costs of a more efficient part (which would be a weird way of going about this).
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
27,906 (6.17/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
2 Terms for Cheap- Price, Quality.

Rather it be price than quality.

Tbf Phenom 2 was a great design and fx isnt as bad as it was on launch day however phenom 2 did not have an 8 core, FX and Ryzen Do.

If you have an AM3 board that just happens to specify FX8350 in compatibility and is not a lower end 970 board it will run it.

However Ryzen is on the scene and that is the most viable upgrade, save up dough if need be.

Just vote with your wallet and press on
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
149 (0.39/day)
Location
South Africa
System Name 1.Archimedes 2. Ianna
Processor 1. i7 7700k 2. R5 1600x
Motherboard 1. MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon 2. ASUS Prime X470 Pro
Cooling 1. U12S with IPPC 3000RPM 2. AMD Wraith Prism
Memory 1. 16GB Crucial 2400MHz (4x4GB) 2. 16GB Crucial 2666Mhz (4x4GB)
Video Card(s) 1. MSI 1060 Gaming X Plus(6GB). 2. MSI 1050TI Gaming X (4GB)
Storage 1. 32GB Optane+120 GB SSD, 4TB X300, Firecuda 2TB. 2. Kingston 240GB SSD, 2TB WD Blue
Display(s) AOC G2460VQ6, Samsung Q7FN 55 Inch
Case 1. S340 Elite. 2. S340
Audio Device(s) Lenovo Y Gaming , Logitech X530 , Galaxy Buds
Power Supply 1. Antec TPC 750W (Seasonic OEM) 2. Antec Neo Eco II 550W (Delta OEM)
Mouse G502, G102
Keyboard G413
I have both CPU's. The Phenom 840 in my opinion is not a CPU worth paying for currently. In fact i tried to donate it online but no one wanted it. According to CPU-Z benchmarks which ive done, my Ryzens single thread score is equal to the multithreaded score of the Phenom.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,322 (0.93/day)
Location
Gougeland (NZ)
System Name Cumquat 2000
Processor AMD RyZen R7 2700 @ 3400MHz
Motherboard Asus TUF X470-Plus Gaming
Cooling Cryorig R1 Universal
Memory 16GB GSkill TridentZ DR4-3200 16-18-18-38 1.35V
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX580 Gaming 8GB
Storage 1X Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA AHCI 1x Sandisk 128GB PCIe, 12TB of HDD Storage
Display(s) ViewSonic VX2457 MHD 75Hz FreeSync 1920x1080p
Case SilverStone Raven RV02B-W + 3x SS AP181 + USB3.0 upgrade
Audio Device(s) Creative SB X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro PCIe + Pioneer VSX-531 amp Technics 100W Speaker set
Power Supply Enermax RevolutionXT II 750W 80+ Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10 X64 PRO (build 1903)
Benchmark Scores it sucks even less much now ;)
At release date the Phenom II x4 965 BE was valued at
Price at introduction$245

And the Ryzen 5 1600 was valued
Price at introduction$219

the 965 was an 140W TDP the Ryzen is 65W TDP

the 965 doesn't support alot of new instruction sets

So to put it basically you're getting a faster cooler cheaper per core CPU than the 965BE was
 
Top