The costs of Intel gaming vs AMD gaming, who wins? Actually Intel this round, cheaper and faster.

[Naito]

I'd also recommend reading PCGamer Navi review where they show games at medium settings at 1440p and 1080p not max... Nvidia really smokes AMD there.

I can only find 11 game average benchmarks for medium settings @ 1080p in these reviews (happy to be proven wrong). Going off the 1080p benchmarks, the 5700XT is only 7 FPS slower than 2070 Super. I'd hardly call this a smoking. As the resolution increases, the gap lessons. Better drivers and AIB cards will help decrease this gap further.

i'm happy i stayed with intel nvidia this round, next round / ddr5 ram I will def be giving AMD a shot, i think they just need to mature and refine the process a little bit more.

And as I suspected, here it is; you are bending the results to rationalize decisions made when purchasing your system and ignoring key facts like launch pricing, socket support over the lifetime of the system, etc. Not sure why you are doing this, if your System Specs is anything to go by, you have a killer system. Enjoy it!

 

[Space Lynx]

I can only find 11 game average benchmarks for medium settings @ 1080p in these reviews (happy to be proven wrong). Going off the 1080p benchmarks, the 5700XT is only 7 FPS slower than 2070 Super. I'd hardly call this a smoking. As the resolution increases, the gap lessons. Better drivers and AIB cards will help decrease this gap further.



And as I suspected, here it is; you are bending the results to rationalize decisions made when purchasing your system and ignoring key facts like launch pricing, socket support over the lifetime of the system, etc. Not sure why you are doing this, if your System Specs is anything to go by, you have a killer system. Enjoy it!

AMD has stated they are only supporting AM4 socket until 2020, when DDR5 hits in early 2021 most likely, you will be buying AM5 boards, so you will still be buying a new board within a couple years if you upgrade now.

Regardless, I get your point.

I honestly wish AMD had ryzen and navi in a laptop, I might buy that. for some reason I enjoy gaming laptops, its weird I know.

 

[Naito]

AMD has stated they are only supporting AM4 socket until 2020, when DDR5 hits in early 2021 most likely, you will be buying AM5 boards, so you will still be buying a new board within a couple years if you upgrade now.

This is true, but this is more than Intel and they've been upfront with it from pretty much day dot. Intel gives us generally two release cycles per chipset/socket, where as AMD has, aside from the A320, allowed for Zen, Zen+, Zen 2 and I assume Zen 2+ or 3 to remain backward (or is it forward?) compatible (depending on BIOS support, of course).

for some reason I enjoy gaming laptops, its weird I know.

Ah, I missed the HQ suffix on your CPU listing - that gives the laptop part away. Impressive gaming laptop!

 

[ShurikN]

I'd also recommend reading PCGamer Navi review where they show games at medium settings at 1440p and 1080p not max... Nvidia really smokes AMD there. Setting settings to Ultra for games is a bit silly and distorts actual benches and real world users scenarios. Most of us turn down one or two settings because they net us extra FPS and are insanely crippling for even high end hardware. Also Navi does not OC well, and so all the benches you see you can basically add another 10-15 fps because my 2070 SUPER is OC'd balls to the walls and still stays under Navi blower fan.

Why in gods name would I buy a 1440p class card and then play on 1080p medium. In that same review, at 1080p ultra, 2070Super is maybe 3% ahead of the 5700XT. For 25% more money.
Also 5700XT oveclocks to 2150 MHz on that shitty stock cooler. Go watch the Hardware Unboxed review.

i'm happy i stayed with intel nvidia this round, next round / ddr5 ram I will def be giving AMD a shot, i think they just need to mature and refine the process a little bit more.

You said the same thing for this round...

 

[dyonoctis]

not sure what you mean, most people who build on OCN or TPU are mainly just gamers. I know there is a lot more productivity out there though, so your point stands and I agree with you there. as far as I am aware, big guys int he industry like LinusTechTips still use Intel for all their productivity though just because of stability, including all their servers and video editing. :/

I just meant that it seems that a lot of people are just happy with the current developement even if it doesn't benefits them directly. As long as Intel is on pressure somewhere you can expect them to at least try harder.
As for the big boys using AMD or Intel...you'll see some VFX studios having worked with big brands or on blockbuster movies using Zen cpus. But those guys are using custom build machine, while a fair amount of studios are buying their workstation from Dell, Hp or Lenovo...who are only using Intel cpu.
Irc Linus haven't made any uppgrade to the editors rigs since 2015 (or it wasn't documented) (and that server video was actually made before zen 2 launch), so I dunno where they really stand in all this.

Outside of epyc (who really seems to be made for datacenters, or supercomputers) the pro side of zen is obscure for me. There's Ryzen pro, but threadripper doesn't have a "pro" version seems like it's made for pro and prosummers alike, but that doesn't seem to please Dell and the others...

 

[Space Lynx]

Why in gods name would I buy a 1440p class card and then play on 1080p medium. In that same review, at 1080p ultra, 2070Super is maybe 3% ahead of the 5700XT. For 25% more money.
Also 5700XT oveclocks to 2150 MHz on that shitty stock cooler. Go watch the Hardware Unboxed review.

You said the same thing for this round...

have not seen the hardware unboxed review, will give it a watch now. gamersnexus seemed to think ryzen nor navi would oc well at all

24 fps slower than i7-9700 at 1440p, you can argue oh well SMT off does improve performance, but 99% of users will never turn it off. even gamersnexus does not recommend turning it off... tho i don't know why since his audience is a enthusiast crowd. min fps is also loads better on my 9700. which = no big drops in frames, more smooth overall gaming experience for this particular game (which I intend to play a lot of very soon btw)

 

[Frick]

X570 isn't required, Zen 2 is supported on all previous chipsets and just about every vendor has updated firmware for it. X370/B350 boards are laughably cheap.

Asrock have some A320 boards with Zen2 support.

ASRock A320M-DVS R4.0

AMD AM4 Socket; 2 DIMMs, Supports DDR4 3200+(OC)<span style=color:red;>*</span>; 1 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1; Graphics Output : DVI-D, D-Sub; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec); 4 SATA3; 6 USB 3.1 Gen1 (2 Front, 4 Rear); Realtek Gigabit LAN<div class=Remark><span...

www.asrock.com

 

[Space Lynx]

Asrock have some A320 boards with Zen2 support.

ASRock A320M-DVS R4.0

AMD AM4 Socket; 2 DIMMs, Supports DDR4 3200+(OC)<span style=color:red;>*</span>; 1 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1; Graphics Output : DVI-D, D-Sub; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec); 4 SATA3; 6 USB 3.1 Gen1 (2 Front, 4 Rear); Realtek Gigabit LAN<div class=Remark><span...

www.asrock.com

Have to admit I was not expecting ryzen 3000 to work so well on such old boards and cheap. Techspot did a review of it, and it really didn't hinder performance at all.

 

[IceScreamer]

have not seen the hardware unboxed review, will give it a watch now. gamersnexus seemed to think ryzen nor navi would oc well at all

24 fps slower than i7-9700 at 1440p, you can argue oh well SMT off does improve performance, but 99% of users will never turn it off. even gamersnexus does not recommend turning it off... tho i don't know why since his audience is a enthusiast crowd. min fps is also loads better on my 9700. which = no big drops in frames, more smooth overall gaming experience for this particular game (which I intend to play a lot of very soon btw)

Am I reading the chart wrong or the difference is way smaller than that, it's around 12FPS max, and if you can feel the difference between 98 and 110 while gaming then man, hats off to you.

 

[Space Lynx]

Am I reading the chart wrong or the difference is way smaller than that, it's around 12FPS max, and if you can feel the difference between 98 and 110 while gaming then man, hats off to you.

no you are correct, 12 is correct. for some reason my brain doubled it. that's still 12 fps fast, better mins as well, and $100 cheaper... say what you want, but those cheaper AM4 non x570 boards have terrible VRM cooling. not sure i want to risk stability issues after 10 hour gaming sessions.

and i have changed from 144hz to 165hz before to just test just that and i could tell a difference, very slightly. def diminishing returns, but yeah every fps counts. i have also played on 240hz monitor before and honestly it felt too fast... didnt feel like a game anymore, i think i prefer 165hz to 175hz monitors. maybe 200hz max. nothing below 90hz though ever. 90 is sweet spot, after that its diminishing returns i admit. but i can still see difference "feel" difference

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

So I found some good Z390 boards on sale for $109 shipped, I got the ASRock Steel Legend for $105 actually. So 8 core 9700 non-k 65 watt, beats 90% of games in AMD by a good 10 fps while staying cool, and costs $329, same as AMD's cheapest 8 core offering, which only beats it in two mainstream games. Then we look at ram, you really need 3600 ram for Ryzen to shine or 3200 b die. cas 14. Cheapest of which is $140 right now, yet i got my 3000 cas 14 ram for $95 and it will do great on intel, probably ok for AMD too but would need to risk OC'ing it, etc as AMD really needs 3200 cas 14 min to do well. Cheapest X570 board is $170... so your looking at 45 more for the ram, and 65 more for the mobo, all so you can get less FPS in games, and Destiny 2 doesn't even work with Ryzen CPU's yet and they still haven't figured out a fix. So if Destiny 2 doesn't work on Ryzen, how many older games from 10 years ago have people not played yet, but when nostalgia hits them and they load up the game... only to find out not supported. Hopefully there are not that many, but if one modern game didn't pass the cut or cut corners and only focused on intel, guess what? I bet more did too but no one has time to play 4000 games to see which ones work and which don't.

I could even argue the i5-9400f at $149 on Amazon right now and a cheap $80 H370 mobo - several youtube comparisons show the 9400f on several games tying or beating the ryzen 3600... which again is $170 mobo and $200 CPU minimum, not to mention you need to throw in much more expensive ram where as the 9400f will do those numbers on 2666 $65 ram just fine.

Peoples obsession with threads is overblown, especially if all you do is game.

If you do more than game, than by all means go AMD because I agree those threads do count then. Just not sure why Intel has such a bad marketing team, seriously not sure why everyone is fawning over Ryzen 3000 when its still getting beat in gaming and that's with the security patches... and same price or cheaper for the Intel parts minus threading... I mean to each their own. I just know I prefer higher FPS no matter what, and if I can do that cheaper too... then I mean alright sure. Great thing about the 9700 non-k is the 65w, it won't run hot even if I set all cores to boost to 4.7 and no downclocking in the BIOS.

Just curious why I seem to be the only one having these thoughts? Even Linus is gushing over Ryzen (even though he has intel in his new rig he built a few weeks ago). If I was recommending a budget build right now, it would be 1660 or 1660 ti, i5-9400f, cheap 2666 ram, and a 144hz VA 1080p 24" panel for $150. Literally will be Ryzen in 90% of games and still save ton of money. No I am not an Intel fanboy... just presenting the facts. I owned AMD for a solid decade straight, from flashing my 6950 BIOS to a 6970 and having a blast, to the ATI AGP days of upgrading just so I could play WoW on launch day. AMD will always be special to me, I just don't understand the hype I guess this round, seriously 3 generations of Ryzen and still not beating Intel in gaming, why is no one else frustrated at this? Not to mention some games don't work at all with Ryzen, and GamersNexus reminded people in his most review of 5700 XT that the drivers crash all the time for him for his 5700 XT, etc... I honestly don't miss those days.

Sounds like the I5 argument from years ago totes invalid.
If you don't give a shit aboutt 144hz at 1080p then most of your argument means naught.
Invalid because there are cheaper ryzen platforms too that will be close enough at 1440p and 4k that 90% of the public wouldn't give a shit.

 

[Metroid]

AMD has stated they are only supporting AM4 socket until 2020, when DDR5 hits in early 2021 most likely, you will be buying AM5 boards, so you will still be buying a new board within a couple years if you upgrade now.

Reason why there is really no point investing in high end am4 motherboards. You will not reuse it.

2 important things, if going intel then never buy a high end motherboard cause you will have to buy every year, if going amd then invest in a very good high end motherboard cause if amd keep this policy of reusability of a motherboard then it's great.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Face it, AMD is no magician. Intel will be in the lead for years and years to come, and guess what? They don't need to beat intel in gaming when they're already making plenty of sales for those doing tasks other than gaming. Yes they will win by 20~ fps in some games, however to most people buying AMD they don't care about the difference as they're paying a fraction of the price presuming they don't buy an overpriced X570 board.

 

[FYFI13]

Cheaper and faster? How about this setup?

You might argue about RAM. That's exactly same RAM I'm running at 3400MHz. And even without overclok the difference is too small to justify spending more money on it. You don't need X570 motherboard either. It will run just fine.

Now let's convert GBP to EUR:

393 euro for a system that will run just as good or even better than 7 9700, it will run cool and most importantly - you will be able to upgrade CPU whenever you feel like you need more horse power.
Also, i made this list on scan.co.uk, i did not even try to find cheaper parts.

Now let's take a look at you system:

Ouch, 473 euro and let's not forget that electronics in USA are cheaper. So if i had to buy all your parts in Europe, the price would be even higher.

Nice trolling attempt bro.

 

[HenrySomeone]

AMD at least supports their sockets for more than two CPU release cycles. Did you take that into consideration when budgeting systems? I'd also happily pay more for less vulnerabilities. A lot of hype is probably around increased competition, which is generally good for consumers.

This sounds to me someone may be trying to rationalize their purchases....

Well, they sort of have to, as even the latest and greatest 3rd gen chips still get beaten by almost 3 years old 7700k in most games and I bet even 4000 series won't overtake 8700k at 5.0 - 5.2 Ghz which you could get in 2017, not to mention what Ice Lake is gonna do to them

 

[ShurikN]

The MSI tomahawk B450 is also regarded as a killer mobo for 8 cores (or less) Ryzen 3000s. It's currently $115 on Newegg
It also has Flashback, so no CPU is needed for bios flashing.

 

[Sithaer]

When I built my current PC back in ~2018 May the price of a full I 5 8400 build was pretty much the same as the 1600x Ryzen build with 3200 memos. 'Hardware prices in my country are rather meh..'

I picked the Ryzen system cause I don't plan on upgrading mobo+cpu for like 5 years or so and I rather have the extra threads just in case.
Switched from an Intel system which I used for 3 years.

I don't need my PC to push crazy high frames either,just recently upgraded from a 60Hz monitor to a 75Hz Ultra Wide and I'm completely comfortable with it,actually I also lock my max FPS to have less stress on my system. 'Don't need more than my Freesync max range'
Even if the 8400 was/is somewhat better in games it doesn't matter to me cause I simply won't notice that difference nor pair it with a high end GPU so I'm GPU bound anyway.
Except for some crappy old games that rely on max 1-2 cores but luckily I play less and less of those things.

So yea it really depends,at least imo but personally I will never go back to Intel at this rate.
Can still put a 3600 in my current mobo if I ever have to.

 

[ShurikN]

Can still put a 3600 in my current mobo if I ever have to.

You'll see between 20 and 30% more performance in gaming with it, compared to your current CPU. The only question is how much of a bottleneck will that RX570 be.

have not seen the hardware unboxed review, will give it a watch now. gamersnexus seemed to think ryzen nor navi would oc well at all

The same thing happened with Vega VII and overclocking at launch, and it was fixed with driver updates within a week.
The same will happen with Navi.
5700 does not OC past 1800 as it has a hard limit, most likely in the drivers. The XT overclocks just fine. And it'll be even better with AIB cards. It will catch up 2070S and have better price/perf ratio.

 

[Naito]

not to mention what Ice Lake is gonna do to them

Well, let's hope they can get their sh*t together and stop copy-pasting their CPU architectures! They may not have run into this problem otherwise...

Starts to look more like a block of swiss cheese than a CPU

 

[Sithaer]

You'll see between 20 and 30% more performance in gaming with it, compared to your current CPU. The only question is how much of a bottleneck will that RX570 be.

Nah,would make no use of a 3600 atm,since even the 1600x is more than enough for the single player games I'm mainly playing nowadays.
But maybe in years I will switch it out,for example I've switched out my old intel system when it was struggling in Far Cry 5/Just Cause 3 with 100% CPU load and it was unplayable.
Hopefully that won't happen anytime soon.

RX 570 will be replaced later this year since this new monitor/resolution is more GPU heavy and new games are kinda pushing it.
Looking at a possible Sapphire RX 5700 or a RTX 2060 but might get something cheaper in the end.

 

[GreiverBlade]

Starts to look more like a block of swiss cheese than a CPU

hey! don't insult Swiss cheeses! (furthermore ... not many Swiss cheeses have hole in them ... for instance the Gruyere which is dubbed as being with a lot of hole, has none in it ... none at all ... it's the "fake" French made Gruyere who has them and that one has no appellation d'origine protégée /contrôlée, in the end the "full of hole like a Swiss cheese" originated from a cliché )

other than that for the op ... well good for you if you got an intel setup for cheap but don't go dissing AMD because you want to justify the buy

have not seen the hardware unboxed review, will give it a watch now. gamersnexus seemed to think ryzen nor navi would oc well at all

24 fps slower than i7-9700 at 1440p, you can argue oh well SMT off does improve performance, but 99% of users will never turn it off. even gamersnexus does not recommend turning it off... tho i don't know why since his audience is a enthusiast crowd. min fps is also loads better on my 9700. which = no big drops in frames, more smooth overall gaming experience for this particular game (which I intend to play a lot of very soon btw)

nonetheless ... it's not tremendous difference between them (still funny ... isn't it Intel who recommend turning off SMT/HT due to security issue iirc?)

oh well for me as long as it maintain above 75fps minima in 1440/1620p i know what will my next setup be

but still glad for you

 

[HenrySomeone]

other than that for the op ... well good for you if you got an intel setup for cheap but don't go dissing AMD because you want to justify the buy

He doesn't have to justify anything - he got a superior product for his use case at a better price. And if Intel's prices drop a bit more as was speculated recently, then they will be an absolute no-brainer choice for general use and especially gaming.

 

[Naito]

hey! don't insult Swiss cheeses!

Haha, sorry! I mean the mass produced American 'Swiss cheese', not the fine quality cheese from Switzerland

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Destiny 2 doesn’t work with Ryzen? Could have fooled me. I must have been playing something else!

 

[FYFI13]

Destiny 2 doesn’t work with Ryzen? Could have fooled me. I must have been playing something else!

I tried Destiny 2 as well for a bit. Didn't like the game and uninstalled. Didn't notice any issues though.