Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[FordGT90Concept]

Wind falls in the same category as solar. If the wind is not blowing hard enough or it is blowing too hard, something has to fill in the gaps and that's usually natural gas.

Geothermal is very limited in where it can be used and, like fracking, it can cause artificial earthquakes.

Hydropower capacity almost at peak already globally. There isn't really room to expand it without destroying a lot of natural habitat. USA has been destroying more dams than it has been building.

"Biopower" translates to more fertilizer (which is largely produced from oil). Additionally, that article talks about burning wood which could lead to mass deforestation (already a huge problem globally) and all of the heavy machinery and transportation involved translates to a net increase in atmospheric carbon. The idea is self-defeating.


Why do I single out wind and solar? Quote from your link:

Solar and wind renewable resources offer significantly larger total energy and power potential than do other domestic renewable resources.

The other's combined realistically can't go over 20% without completely destroying the environment.

Have another quote:

A principal barrier to the widespread adoption of renewable electricity technologies is that electricity from renewables (except for electricity from large-scale hydropower) is more costly to produce than electricity from fossil fuels without an internalization of the costs of carbon emissions and other potential societal impacts. Policy incentives, such as renewables portfolio standards, the production tax credit, feed-in tariffs, and greenhouse gas controls, thus have been required, and for the foreseeable future will continue to be required, to drive further increases in the use of renewable sources of electricity.

Note how they are always quick to point out carbon cost but fail to weigh in the environmental cost of "green" energy. Case in point, there's video of a bald eagle getting killed by wind turbine. If that were me or you, we'd be fined $5000. I believe they also don't pay DOT fees for transporting all of those oversized pieces (including wear and tear on roads). PV panels? Crapload of electronic waste once their service life is up.


Anyway, this document was published in 2010 and the rosy picture it paints for renewables hasn't panned out. It likely never will.

I already stated how renewables can't produce power on demand (excepting being hydro so long as there is sufficient water in the reservoir). Another factor that hugely holds renewables back is the fact it can't be produced where it is consumed. The farther the energy is transported, the more that is lost.

 

[Nobody99]

PV panels? Crapload of electronic waste once their service life is up.

Seems like there should be higher VAT for panels which aren't that much energy efficient because when they produce less energy over years they are less likely to be kept around.

Another factor that hugely holds renewables back is the fact it can't be produced where it is consumed.

That is exactly the advantage of renewable energy, sun is everywhere only when it goes down but you can have PV panels on a mountain to where you couldn't transport wired electricity or build a pipeline. You can choose any place on earth and deploy the solar panels there which means that you don't have to depend on the non-renewable energy and its resellers. It is like open source - you can use it anwhere without being dependant on some company. Granted storage of renewable energy is still a problem but this should change in a few years with cheaper and better accumulators. Graphene accumulators!

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Case in point: New York City uses a lot more electricity than the surface area of it provides in solar. Solar also, in no way, eliminates the need for a robust grid because half of the day, it produces nothing. Storing electricity costs more than producing electricity.

 

[AphexDreamer]

Lol "rosey picture it paints"? It's quite a realistic one. Wind energy has been on the rise and even more so since the article was posted. Better battery storage technologies are being developed and the social stigma is slowly changing.

I don't think wind mills are going on an bird eating rampage but if they are you should really start a public awareness campaign.

Yes of course solar and wind will be the majority providers. The sun alone is radiating light, what beats the energy output of the sun, nothing.

Every single place on Earth that habits 1st world human beings sees some sun or some wind on a daily basis.

"Together with similar studies from the USA and Europe, we busted the myth that renewable energy cannot supply base-load demand. The old myth was based on the assumption that base-load demand can only be supplied by base-load power stations, for example, coal in Australia and nuclear in France. However, the mix of renewable energy systems in our computer models easily supplies base-load demand, although they have no base-load power stations. The real challenge is to supply peaks in demand on winter evenings following overcast days when the wind is low. That’s when existing peak-load power stations, hydro and gas turbines burning biofuels, make vital contributions by filling gaps in wind and solar generation. For a predominantly renewable electricity system, base-load power stations are redundant."

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/another-myth-busted-on-the-road-to-100-renewable-electricity-52178

 

[Nobody99]

Full solar is not yet possible but it hopefully soon will be especially in houses (so less urbanized cities) where people could install battery pack and with energy efficient electronic devices of today that is possible. And cities will probably use solar farms on the outskirts.

burning biofuels

Biofuels are also detrimental to the environment because of the deforestation and they should really be produced in temperate regions because less carbon is released into the atmosphere because less vegetation is destroyed. Reforestating the desert and then producing biofuel there would be like the perfect choice if it were so easy.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yes of course solar and wind will be the majority providers. The sun alone is radiating light, what beats the energy output of the sun, nothing.

The atmosphere which reflects, absorbs, and distorts it.

"Together with similar studies from the USA and Europe, we busted the myth that renewable energy cannot supply base-load demand. The old myth was based on the assumption that base-load demand can only be supplied by base-load power stations, for example, coal in Australia and nuclear in France. However, the mix of renewable energy systems in our computer models easily supplies base-load demand, although they have no base-load power stations. The real challenge is to supply peaks in demand on winter evenings following overcast days when the wind is low. That’s when existing peak-load power stations, hydro and gas turbines burning biofuels, make vital contributions by filling gaps in wind and solar generation. For a predominantly renewable electricity system, base-load power stations are redundant."

Yay for fossil fuels! Right? In this case, renewable is not clean. Nuclear fission may not be renewable but it is clean. Nuclear fusion is renewable and clean.

 

[Caring1]

Nuclear fission may not be renewable but it is clean. Nuclear fusion is renewable and clean.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

As much as i hate bumping this thread,............there is good news today. The US and China have ratified the world's first comprehensive climate deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-37265541

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Obama grinning like a fool. XD

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Obama grinning like a fool. XD

the 2nd pic looks like Obama farted and Xi Jinping caught a whiff of it.

 

[Ahhzz]

the 2nd pic looks like Obama farted and Xi Jinping caught a whiff of it.

I think Jinping always looks like that.....

 

[AphexDreamer]

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Not a coincidence:

 

[Ahhzz]

Excellent!!!

oh, wait. in b4 "lies!!!"

 

[SK-1]

My graph isn't nearly as pretty or artsy but... looks like we're all gonna burn...smh

 

[FordGT90Concept]

This is just...I don't know what it is...education system brainwashing maybe?
21 kids suing the Obama administration for not doing enough to slow climate change

I think they're arguing that there should be no minimum age to vote. Or at least that is why they're being represented by an adult on their behalf...I guess.

Long story short, the lead plaintiff had her house flooded in Louisiana a month ago--a flood she blames on climate change.

I highly doubt the judge will believe the argument that stopping CO2 emissions is going to stop flooding in Louisiana. She can't prove she was damaged by the Obama administration (the defendant), she can only prove she was damaged by an "act of god."

Reading further, I get the distinct impression of bad parenting off of what these kids have said (one says he is more concerned about climate change than anything else, including schooling).

 

[SK-1]

This is just...I don't know what it is...education system brainwashing maybe?
21 kids suing the Obama administration for not doing enough to slow climate change

Not surprised in the least. The Global Warming Movement is nothing than a fuckn Money Grab anyway you look at it.

 

[Rockarola]

Case in point: New York City uses a lot more electricity than the surface area of it provides in solar. Solar also, in no way, eliminates the need for a robust grid because half of the day, it produces nothing. Storing electricity costs more than producing electricity.

Case in point: the US is not the world...some places uses insulation in stead of AC or heating. Some places actually give tax rebates to companies building "green" buildings. Some places do not subsidise the energy sector, unless it's sustainable energy...some places do not treat the world like it's an infinite resource.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

...some places uses insulation in stead of AC or heating.

Every house in this area is insulated with central heating and cooling.

Some places actually give tax rebates to companies building "green" buildings.

Energy companies in the USA provide rebates to replace older equipment with Energy Star compliant equipment. There's also rebates for solar panels and wind turbines.

Some places do not subsidise the energy sector, unless it's sustainable energy

Something 70-90% of the energy subsidies in the USA go to "sustainable energy."


USA is second only to China (because of the Three Gorges Dam) in renewable power generation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources

 

[Rockarola]

Every house in this area is insulated with central heating and cooling.


Energy companies in the USA provide rebates to replace older equipment with Energy Star compliant equipment. There's also rebates for solar panels and wind turbines.


Something 70-90% of the energy subsidies in the USA go to "sustainable energy."


USA is second only to China (because of the Three Gorges Dam) in renewable power generation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources

...and yet the US burns through water (how is your lawn looking?), oil (everybody loves a V8, right?) and energy (I've lived in the south, and it's cheaper to run the AC than trying to fix your house.)

 

[Bones]

And here's even more proof of it.

 

[Rockarola]

And here's even more proof of it.
View attachment 78787

10/10 would be trolled again.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

...and yet the US burns through water (how is your lawn looking?), oil (everybody loves a V8, right?) and energy (I've lived in the south, and it's cheaper to run the AC than trying to fix your house.)

It rained 7 inches here in the last week so my lawn is looking great. For the record, I never water my lawn unless it is newly seeded grass.

Oil production in the USA has fallen off because demand for oil has fallen off.

USA is an economic power house because of the abundance of energy.

 

[Rockarola]

It rained 7 inches here in the last week so my lawn is looking great. For the record, I never water my lawn unless it is newly seeded grass.

Oil production in the USA has fallen off because demand for oil has fallen off.

USA is an economic power house because of the abundance of energy.

It seems like you have all the right answers, never mind that the US consumes ridiculous amounts of water, energy and resources...beyond what is needed.
The US is an economic powerhouse, because it's one of the largest first world nations on earth, with plenty of natural resources (so far) and a large production of goods (which is going in a downward spiral)

You are pretty good at dodging the hard questions, it's always about how great you are doing NOW...I'm a bit more worried about the future, but I hope you enjoyed your 7" of rain.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I think market forces establish "what is needed" far better than mere opinion.

I'm more worried about growing and spreading political instability (US elections and political strife, China and Japan's economy collapsing, Brexit, growing Russian imperialism, North Korea building nuclear weapons, and so on) far more so than environmental change. Hell, I'm more concerned about the poaching of elephants than I am about average temperatures going up a few degrees.