Discussion in 'Games' started by oli_ramsay, Feb 16, 2009.
Wooo. A reason for me to get motivated to upgrade , looks awesome!
RA3 was going for a stylised look, more anime, cartoony compared to the gritty "realism" of TW. i'll reserve judgement on this game when i've seen it in action and not pre-rendered trailers.
I'm not convinced, rivaling crysis is a joke...no matter which way put and I could really care less what any dev says, bottom line shove graphics to the side and make the gameplay own, when that happens thats when you know you've done something right. But I forgot this is a business and eye candy will forever rule in favor over gameplay.
Graphics are important for immersing one into a gaming experience and making it believable, as well as showing off technical achievements. Graphics, in the best of times, are a part of gameplay, and generally make a good game great. They of course won't save a shallow nothingness from it's emptiness though.
I disagree, graphics are eye candy. They in no way make the game any better or immerse the person in the game. thats like saying virtual reality is the best thing ever because it looks real but when everything manages to not act like it's real world counterpart then we have issues...maybe a farfetched statement a point I just don't think many managers drive home to their devs but whatever...
Then why do you have a 4850? If eye-candy is of no consequence to you, why don't you save some money and turn down the settings? By your logic the move to 3-D was really all we needed, after that devs should have just stopped focusing on graphics and simply changed gameplay. Doom 3 wouldn't be nearly as scary if it looked like doom 1 eh?
Graphics DO make the game much more immersive. Virtual reality DOES help a lot and so does Stereoscopic 3D. Of course you also need to improve other things, but better physics, better character animation won't help if you don't have believable environments.
Graphical improvements like better shadows were crucial for games like Doom3 or FEAR.
I can't think of IL2-Sturmovik without volumetric clouds or Bioshock wouldn't have the same impact if the water and underwater landscape wasn't so detailed. FarCry without the faliage. The list goes on and on and on.
Nope still couldn't put that past me. Like I said man either way not like it matters. Shoving it in my face isn't going to help either. And forget trying to think of things without the enhancements but not like it matters because we're so use to having it shoved in our faces it wouldn't make a difference either.:shadedshu
@farlex I'm parting out that system end of month, only had 4 games I was looking forward to. project origin, street fighter iv, SC 2 and Diablo 3. end of story.
and bottom line graphics are no substitute for better gameplay. It's just how it is. 4850 or not...
So from what I read, something is not good unless it makes a difference for YOU and only you.
I still have friends who play and are happy playing PS2 or even Dreacast you know, but they know the difference.
No not even close...but yea I'm not gonna argue since it won't matter.
and thats awesome they play the consoles totally awesome, dunno hmmmm meh whatever.
Perhaps you didn't grasp what I said, I did not say graphics are a substitute for gameplay. I agree that a pretty game with not much fun behind it will get dull rather quickly. However a good game that is already well written and well done will can be made that much better by adding graphical enhancements. Why play Street Fighter IV? It's pretty much the same gameplay as Street Fighter II.
I know, but I guess the term is peer pressure, or I haven't played a fighting game in a long time since KOF, nah actually I think I just wanted on impulse I never bought or played it yet, dunno might play it down the road. I dunno me personally I'm trying to get off gaming and focus on my dev work yea I sound very conceited after saying this. I may go to a midrange rig in the future but I dunno kinda hard to tell at this point. I dunno just feel like theres a substandardness floating around at some companies or maybe I'm getting really anal like Yahtzee, just not sure yet.
My point is that there will always be people that don't need more of something and when it comes to graphics, as these get better, more people will think it's enough for them. But that doesn't mean that better graphics don't help increasing immersion or improve gameplay in many ways, take smoke for example.
I have seen your game preferences in the examples above and immersion doesn't seem to be a must for you, because you have a preference for bird view games. As for me, I CAN'T stand 3rd person shooters, but I don't mind if strategy or RPG games lack graphics at all. 3D or 2D, once I loose first person perspective (immersion), I'm happy even with symbols in such games, for me Ogame-like games or SOASE, which is most played zoomed out and only symbols are just as good or better. EDIT: One of my favourite strategy games is Risk.
And I hate games that fail to immerse me (COD4, Assasin's Creed). That not always happens because of the graphics, as is the case with COD4, but the list of games that got me immersed and had "bad" graphics is very short. On the contrary games with gameplay I didn't like but where the graphics saved the party are many. The most notable one was Bioshock, IMO the gameplay was meh, but the story was brilliant and kept me playing, but in Bioshock without the graphics, you have no immersionand without that you have no story. As farlex said, graphics is not a substitute for gameplay, but it's just one more ingredient you do need and that helps in any case: better graphics is never for the worse of a game.
I agree with you in part DM, especially about Bioshock. That one TOTALLY pulled me in. I don't know how bad they could have made the graphics and still grabbed me, but it worked.
Thanks oil! But gameplay or it didn't happen
theres 1 thing i thought when i saw that suit....it read this is the suit keith would wear in battle.....it looked awhole lot like the crysis suit! NOT saying anything!! ill just leave it at that
This whole thing started as a Crysis mod if I'm not mistaken, so it's not a susprise they are similar on many things.
Yeah "FaceBall 2000" in the arcade was awesome!!!! http://cheats.gamespy.com/super-nes/faceball-2000/ It came out in 1992 on SNES.
Also known as "MIDI Maze" for the PC. It was a good game for the gameplay but it also had great 3d graphics. The advanced Graphics were part of the appeal.
I like games to have both good graphics and good gameplay. Its essentual to modern gaming.
Console gaming you have to usually settle for weak graphics and look for gameplay mainly.
The problem with gameplay over graphics is that once you started with content creation you can't improve the gameplay, you can tweak it, but you can't add new fetures. When you have a good gameplay feature, it's inevitabky tied to the game content. What would have been of HL2's gravity gun, if the environment was not entirely designed for it?
Graphics or any technical department on the other hand, can work in parallel, if you create better models or textures or shaders, you just have to replace the old ones with the new ones and voilá. But you can't do the same with gameplay, features, because without the content to take advantage of it, you end up with a gimmick.
Another problem, for the same reason is that no matter how long your game is, the man/hours it takes for technical improvements is the same, but the most complex that your content creation gets to improve the gameplay and the longer your game is, both make your man/hour requirements skyrocket. And so is that latest games are usually either complex (good gameplay) and short, or longer but weaker.
We can hope to have everything, technical, gammeplay complexity (gameplay mechanic can be simple, but properly implementing it is complex) and lenght. I do hope, I do ask for all of them, but we have to stay realists at some point, because if you aim to have everything, to excel in everything, and especially on gameplay, you end up with Duke Nukem Forever on your hands.
EDIT: And ey! I'm a big supporter of 3Drealms and their effort to make of DNFthe best game of all times. I believe in that philosophy, but I'm realist too. It's weird, but I'm romantic and realist at the same time. Is that possible?
I especially like the first point, new graphical enviornments have further pushed what is possible in the gameplay. Really, at the heart, the primary gameplay of the primary genres, especially FPS, hasn't really changed too much. RPGs and RTSs see much more innovation, fps are still essientially the same. What makes them involving to play is the enviornment, and what allows them to be different from their predecessors is also the enviornment. In fact, nearly the only way to distinguish them is enviornment. Of course, a big part of enviornment is graphics.
Really, what anybody says does it have good gameplay that simply means is the game fun. Nearly always graphics will play some part in answering that question, whether the person realizes it or not.
I'v been a gamer for a LONG time but I cant play a game anymore without nice eye candy. Sure we can all say gameplay is more important than graphics to seem more "refined" but we all need to be dazzled. Good graphics make or brake games nowadays. If it were just about gameplay we would all still be playing Pac-Man, Joust or the latest craze World of Goo.
Hmm, yeah that's another story too. Gameplay. What really is gameplay? I recognice that nowadays gameplay=fun for the most, but it didn't use to be like that. I still think it's not like that, I usually consider gameplay more like game mechanics and how well they are implemented. For me, Fun = gameplay + story. And certainly graphics have a good share on the success of both them.
EDIT: And when it comes to story, the environment is probably more important than the storytelling. Half-Life series, The elder screolls series, Fallout series and Bioshock and STALKER (and...), all of them lack any storytelling, but everything you need to know comes to you by the environment, there's no one there to tell you what's going on on the world.
sounds FREAKKIN awsome!!!
Do want! Looks great!
Looks like i might be buying another 4870X2....
Ill race your 4870x2 with my duel 4850s in crossfire!
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