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The Official Thermal Interface Material thread

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Interesting. What if you make the paste version drying process with Cinebench loop? I mean why not to dry assembled with running operating temps? It will run below the suggested 100 Celsius, because every chip is limited to that value. Also the pad version needs settling time, I suppose that the paste version takes even longer to settle. The first hours will be the drying and whet it dries it will start to settle like the pad version. The only concern is that you apply compression before the drying process, it can pumpout like normal pastes so you shot yourself in the foot. It will work or not?

I have no idea...

Worth a shot if you have this paste. Maybe it can be done with half tightened cooler and after the Cinebench loops you can tighten the screws totally. But yeah, this will be a mess of result probably. Better to make the steps properly as in the description, aka leave the paste on the chip for a day (covered with a paper U turn to shield from dust particles) and then assembly the system and it will work as the pad version. So probably the 7950 SP version not worth it for home usage if the pad version exists and ready to run, but the 7958 SP is an improved version with slightly less thermal impedance so you can further gain a little extra thermal performance with it if you apply it correcty, I can wait 1 day for 2-3C better performance, it can make a difference when the CPU throttles or not.
So, it is not just the solvent.
BTW, Halnziye also has a PCM paste
 
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Good luck brave warrior!
Now I don't know if simply repasting the 3070 did the trick or if the repadding helped, but from the botched status my card was running to now it's worlds apart.
No more fans going WEEEEEEEEE, no more hotspot bordering 110C at default (yes, while I waited for the pads to arrive I underclocked the hell out of the card so it wouldn't fry) which is why I suspect repasting alone could do the trick. Alas, in the same condition I used the card before, now I'm getting nowhere near 90C on the hotspot.
However, underclocking the memory did end the artifacts I was getting then, so that's why I decided to repad. And there was actually one of the factory pads which was stamped with the shape of one of the connectors of the shroud (either the fans or the LEDs one), so there's that.
 

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I am sceptical about the HY-P16 "phase change materialness"... Just read the desciption: it is a paste, but it will dry out to "pad", it is the opposite of the real PCM material. I mean yes this is phase changing, but it's in the wrong direction my chinese tricksters LOL. You need fluid state on the high temps not solid. :D
 
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I am sceptical about the HY-P16 "phase change materialness"... Just read the desciption: it is a paste, but it will dry out to "pad", it is the opposite of the real PCM material. I mean yes this is phase changing, but it's in the wrong direction my chinese tricksters LOL. You need fluid state on the high temps not solid. :D

I think it is a case of "lost in translation" made by some trainee.
PCM is a polymer, a plastic thing, when the solvent evaporates, it will be like the pad.
Their website is messed up, in the description of the HY-P16, it's from the HY-P15... :(

BTW, I found this
 
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This reasoning is based on the assumption that the soild/oil interface has no thermal resistance, I don't think this is the case; as the surface area increases so also does the thermal resistance (I don't think air bubbles play a role). Typically themal greases use metal oxides, not metals Thermal paste - Wikipedia

Der8auer Rants About Misleading W/mK Marketing (Thermal Conductivity) - YouTube
6:20
"If you increase the particle size then you will also increase thermal conductivity."
5:20
Concering IC diamond
"and then they perform the same as..."


Here is some rough and ready reasoning: in the densest sphere packing, 26% is empty space (in this case oil) and this is regardless of the sphere size; so one might expect the thermal conductivity not to depend on grain size... unless surface effects were significant; bigger grains lead to less overall surface area.

So....you are missing part of the point here. Let me step the logic.

Atoms are modeled as roughly spherical regions (center of neutrons and protons, electron cloud).
A solid mass of metal is simply a collection of atoms.
If you have an "infinitely" fine substance you assume it's atomized.
Atomized metal is the same as a solid metal, assuming that the atomized solid has no impurities.
In an oxygen free environment you can actually weld steel together once cleaned. The surfaces placed against each other functionally form a new solid...and weld at basically no energy cost.


I used the example of sintering because it's taking a finely powdered metal, heating it up below the melting point, and having those fine powdered bits sinter together in a solid matrix which is not a solid but creates and interconnected web that acts as a solid. The impregnation of those open areas with something less dense makes a lower density solid...thinking stainless steel powder and a copper compound impregnating it. Alternatively, if you fill it with an oil you have a metal which "bleeds" oil over time and self lubricates.



All of this is functionally what he's saying. The less spaces occupied with poorer conductors the better you conduct... which should be common sense? I am asking you what I'm missing with regards to this being common sense...and your response back to me is a fundamentally incorrect assertion about packing efficiency. You are understanding that packing efficiency is a thing...but because you are still pretending that atoms are largely nothing there's a fundamental gap to bridge between atoms and macroscopic packaging efficiencies...which is simply your macro mind not making the micro leap (excusing the puns, humans often have issues understanding things huge and tiny due to a lack of scale references).
If you want a visual check here: Atomic packing

I'm just baffled that this statement raises anyone's eyebrows...and moreover concerned that how it's being forwarded is part of the reason why. I...find it funny that after watching this as a "revelation" I'd really only consider this a thermo 101 course... Maybe it's because I went to a school that was heavy into math and science...but I also remember this is high school physics. Maybe it's just me being unreasonable.

As a rule, it's not supposed to. However, if impurities are leeched out of the heatsink or IHS, it can happen. Chemistry/Metallurgy is funny like that. Remember, some metals are porous and can bleed/leech certain materials under certain circumstances. Liquid metals tend to be a sponge as well. The process usually takes a year or more to take effect. However, as long as good contact is made, heat transfer is not affected.


Um, yes it can, it's just not common for most use-case-scenario's. I've only ever seen it once and it was a combination of the IHS and the heatsink having aluminium content which was leeched into the LM TIM and caused it to solidify. It was still easily removed, but the CPU IHS had to be removed and a new heatsink used. After going bare die, the system in question was back up and running without skipping a beat and could OC a bit better.

So...

I think that a lot of this is fun. Your comment is...something that is often not considered. Aluminum is not porus, but when aluminum and gallium meet the gallium replaces aluminum atoms inside the crystal structure of the metal. It makes the aluminum brittle, and due to infiltration can basically degrade the structure to the point of falling apart. Most of the higher end "liquid metal" alloys use at least some content of gallium to remain liquid at room temperature...so there's a great possibility that someone can stick an aluminum block onto a patch of liquid metal and see a large aluminum heatsink literally fall apart over time.

If you're looking for actually porus metals then you're looking for a sintered component. Porus is not the same as infiltrating...because infiltration will happen with basically nothing more than a non-oxidized surface.

The other bit of fun with metals is sacrificial anodes and metal interface interaction. Basically, one metal donates electrons to another becoming a cathode and anode. The anode experiences oxidation, expedited by the metal surface interaction. Think the steel in the San Francisco bridge having a bunch of zinc anodes buried on either side to prevent rusting.



I love the fact that we've made so many steps forward, but the answer to this is all still bespoke. That is, if you could grind the two surfaces in the same way you'd need very little interface material...but the joy of mass production is that tolerances mean that each produced unit is "within tolerance" so we have to make up for it with TIM.
I've professionally been in a grind shop. Stretching sheet metal is not exactly high tolerance, but the gap between the shearing surface and blade is in the thousandths of an inch. If the dies weren't ground well they'd mash and shear the sheet metal instead of stretching it. Each die set was ground together, more than three times, to remove any chunks or inconsistencies. I managed to clear a small heatsink in the same way for a PLC...and it went from an overheating mess to surprisingly reliable and quiet. Never shared the solution...but the contractors kept asking how we didn't have the thing in the shop every other week. It's surprising how "within tolerance" can often be such a problem.

Anecdotal, I know. That said, it's basically confirmation about how laping can help...even if my personal belief is that we mostly do well enough not to need the few degrees it offers for most good setups...
 
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UPSIREN PCM-1 is another PTM7950, but this time with 2.5mm and available in
That was a good video. I always trim the edges off the PCM whenever I have to work with the stuff.
 
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I'm new here, but found this thread interesting and read the last few pages so I thought I'd add a little bit of information.

For CPU thermal paste usage, I've found that Kingpin KPx, Prolimatech PK-3 nano, and Kryonaut Extreme (the pink variant) are the best thermal pastes I've tested. Kryonaut (grey version) a little behind those, slightly better than Arctic MX-5 and Noctua NT-H1. Just personal testing, and not 100% controlled, but those are all great pastes for normal usage. I did test Corsair XTM50 and found it to be the worst thermal paste I've ever tested. I was completely out and ran to my local BB for whatever they had and that was the best they could do...it kept my CPU from burning up, but not by much lol.

For work, I do a lot with power-dense LEDs, heatsinks, and high power peltier modules and can share that the KPx paste works as well if not better than most of the industrial stuff I use. I do use a lot of sil-pads and phase change TIMs, but only in situations where I have an active circuit that needs to be electrically isolated from the heat-sink I'm trying to thermally conduct to. The phase change TIMs I use (isostrate or Laird Tgard) are usually kapton films (~1-4W/mK) and only 0.002" thick (the kapton layer is 1 thousanth thick). There's a waxy layer that is solid at room temperature, but at around 50°C it melts and flows to fill any gaps and cavities (very small ones at this thickness obviously). It still functions without flowing, but it does work better after it flows. I wouldn't use that stuff for a CPU though, because that's even more power dense these days and it doesn't perform better than thermal paste. It is just something helpful to use when you need electrical isolation.

A further note, which I believe echoes some of the comments earlier, is that if you're not running something like an 11900k or hotter, you can use most pastes interchangeably. They have gotten a bit more important the last few years though as the power density has increased and it becomes more important how much heat you can transfer through the smallest surface area possible. It's right in the units of measure for thermal conductivity (Watts per meter-kelvin). So if you're trying to overclock a 13900k, it matters (even on air or AiO). I would also say it matters on Ryzen even though there's less power because all that power is trying to transfer from a smaller die through the IHS.
 
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I've been using the Amazon PTM7950 which is listed as only .2mm instead of the "official" .25mm. So far it's been working really well. Most notably I delidded a 8700 non k and replaced the paste under the IHS with PTM. Hottest core instantly went down 12c or so and seems to be doing better with time. I have some Upsiren PCM-1 and U6 Pro thermal putty on the way from aliexpress. For the PTM, I've also done a quadro P1000, a Ryzen 3300u laptop and another 8th gen i5 laptop. All have been positive results. That's not to say the .25mm stuff wouldn't be better.
 
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Guys - Kryosheet.

I've kryosheeted my 4090 FE and have it on the Peerless Assassin - temps are matching the stock PTM7950 that was on it, and I don't have to worry about it pumping out (on my sample it does, and hotspot hits 104C, repasted twice and saw the bald spot on the chip).

going to report back with some long term use, but so far it's been on there 2 months, and my temps are really stable at the same performance as my old paste.
 

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I just redid my GPU with Kryonaught Extreme. I am quite pleased with the results. I got back my 20C Delta. Previous pastings have suffered from pump out. This TIM is quite thick so fingers crossed.

Guys - Kryosheet.

I've kryosheeted my 4090 FE and have it on the Peerless Assassin - temps are matching the stock PTM7950 that was on it, and I don't have to worry about it pumping out (on my sample it does, and hotspot hits 104C, repasted twice and saw the bald spot on the chip).

going to report back with some long term use, but so far it's been on there 2 months, and my temps are really stable at the same performance as my old paste.
I will hold you to that because I am quite interested in it. I am getting tired of paste...
 
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Guys - Kryosheet.

I've kryosheeted my 4090 FE and have it on the Peerless Assassin - temps are matching the stock PTM7950 that was on it, and I don't have to worry about it pumping out (on my sample it does, and hotspot hits 104C, repasted twice and saw the bald spot on the chip).

going to report back with some long term use, but so far it's been on there 2 months, and my temps are really stable at the same performance as my old paste.
You have me sold.

I'll start with the 13900k/NH-D15. 38x38 the correct size to order?
 
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I just redid my GPU with Kryonaught Extreme. I am quite pleased with the results. I got back my 20C Delta. Previous pastings have suffered from pump out. This TIM is quite thick so fingers crossed.


I will hold you to that because I am quite interested in it. I am getting tired of paste...

It's so great, knowing i won't have to repaste just makes me happy. Game changer.

You have me sold.

I'll start with the 13900k/NH-D15. 38x38 the correct size to order?

That's the one I have on the 13700k.

1693931098886.png



I have my IDEs and work open now and have a bunch of stuff in the background, so score is a bit low - but you can see gaming temps and 2 cinebench runs on an uncapped 13700K at stock with - 0.02v reduction (almost nothing) undervolt.

225W load:

1693931331186.png



On the 4090 my hotspot stays below 90C (89) with GPU temps to 75-76C which is what stock paste would do for the first 2-3 months, then it got LOUD and when I checked temps were spiking over 100C.

I think the PTM7950 was a bit better when fresh, but it pumped out too fast to matter, right now the rig is silent at 85% power, and still quiet at 100% power - so pretty happy with results. I did add a layer of tim to the thermal pads on the 4090 to help with contact in case the 0.2mm kryosheet offset caused issues (I'm lazy and didn't want to have to take it apart again).
 
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That kit is a bit different.
What do you mean?

Guys - Kryosheet.

I've kryosheeted my 4090 FE and have it on the Peerless Assassin - temps are matching the stock PTM7950 that was on it, and I don't have to worry about it pumping out (on my sample it does, and hotspot hits 104C, repasted twice and saw the bald spot on the chip).

going to report back with some long term use, but so far it's been on there 2 months, and my temps are really stable at the same performance as my old paste.

The PTM7950 sheet doesn't suffer from pump out. Or are you referring to the PTM 7950 paste?
 
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What do you mean?



The PTM7950 sheet doesn't suffer from pump out. Or are you referring to the PTM 7950 paste?
the sheet does, It melts and pumps out - not as fast as paste, but it does pump out.

I'm talking about the Honeywell PTM7950 - pumped out both from the stock factory and the re-applied sheet that I ordered from Amazon. Both cases left me with a bald spot on the gpu where it was noticeably more compressed and 104C (throttle point) hot spot temps while gpu temps stayed at 78C.
 
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the sheet does, It melts and pumps out - not as fast as paste, but it does pump out.

I'm talking about the Honeywell PTM7950 - pumped out both from the stock factory and the re-applied sheet that I ordered from Amazon. Both cases left me with a bald spot on the gpu where it was noticeably more compressed and 104C (throttle point) hot spot temps while gpu temps stayed at 78C.
That's news to me. However the 4090 might be one of those fringe cases.
 
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That's news to me. However the 4090 might be one of those fringe cases.
Yeah maybe -- I know the marketing and hype around it is what caused me to get another one, thinking that maybe there was some issue at the factory for my card.

But after a few months the same thing happened as the first time (visible loss of coverage on one section of the GPU), so I just replaced it with a kryosheet, and it's been really good so far.

I think maybe either my cooler has a small defect or the mounting pressure isn't quite right -- not sure. PTM flakes off when you clean it off, and is basically the TIM version of glitter. Kept finding random flakes of it around my workbench even after cleaning off what I thought was most of it lol.
 
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Yeah maybe -- I know the marketing and hype around it is what caused me to get another one, thinking that maybe there was some issue at the factory for my card.

But after a few months the same thing happened as the first time (visible loss of coverage on one section of the GPU), so I just replaced it with a kryosheet, and it's been really good so far.

I think maybe either my cooler has a small defect or the mounting pressure isn't quite right -- not sure. PTM flakes off when you clean it off, and is basically the TIM version of glitter. Kept finding random flakes of it around my workbench even after cleaning off what I thought was most of it lol.
Is the Kryosheet electrically conductive?
 
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Is the Kryosheet electrically conductive?
Probably, - it's graphene, so it should be extremely conductive. You will want to make sure it's cut so its not touching the resistors.
 
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Thought so, be careful with that. I'd lay kapton tape down around the perimeter of the GPU die to cover up any passive components.

Not my pic but you get the idea
1693937207850.png
 
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Still no indium users (which is also conductive)
 

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i'm just sticking with mx-6 for everything moving forward, had 0 issues and my temps are good. i hit 61 celsius on my 5600x3d in starfield after several hours gaming, and 60 core 80 hotspot on the 7900 xt in same game. it is the most demanding game I own by far, so I am pretty happy with my temps. i see no reason to improve them
 

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Sep 16, 2018
Messages
7,286 (3.67/day)
Location
Winnipeg, Canada
System Name Altered Beast
Processor AMD R9 5900X, 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling Thermalright Frost Commander 140, NF-A14 3K, T30
Memory 2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s) Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage WD SN850X 2TB, SN850 1TB, SN770 1TB - Asus Hyper M.2, SN770 1TB, SN750 500GB
Display(s) LG 50UP7100
Case Fractal Torrent Compact RGB
Audio Device(s) JBL 2.1 Deep Bass
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 750w G+, Monster HDP1800
Mouse Zowie EC2 Evo
Keyboard Logitech G213
Software Yes
Benchmark Scores Yes
I still like my SYY-157 :D
 
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