The State of Cryptocurrency

[Space Lynx]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/9syzdl

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Here's the original source for that: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...D-DPzKiJbTX00zIC&tracking_referrer=www.cbc.ca

Globally, ~314.2 billion cashless transactions are carried out every year, of which Bitcoin’s share was ~0.033% in 2017.

I think they're being *quite* alarmist in their prediction. They're modeling about 50% adoption (compared to the 0.033% last year) in 20 years. That's wholly unrealistic.

Overall...not really anything new in that article.


Birthday blues for bitcoin as investors face year-on-year loss

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/9syzdl

Short sighted bs read the many posts here or thst follow that and There are alternative viewpoints, like with climate change, my personal stance remains the same.

An entity will make a crypto financial structure that replaces fiat , digitally.

No more banks on every corner.

No more Physical cash to consume resource to manufacture.

No need to move cash from pocket to palm or anywahere to or from a branch.

Now that's some carbon saved.

Brown envelope pay packets ended for me years ago , since then cash has been the Option not the norm.

Digital finance already rules , fact ,it beats out cash sales dramatically.

How long is cash about, a couple, maybe a few generations Max.

Not one mention of any coin above because imho That coins still a twinkle in a minds eye.

But ecologically and economically ,cash not crypto is in tatters.

Code can be improved,as can algorithms ,fiats not ever getting any better.

 

[Space Lynx]

Short sighted bs read the many posts here or thst follow that and There are alternative viewpoints, like with climate change, my personal stance remains the same.

An entity will make a crypto financial structure that replaces fiat , digitally.

No more banks on every corner.

No more Physical cash to consume resource to manufacture.

No need to move cash from pocket to palm or anywahere to or from a branch.

Now that's some carbon saved.

Brown envelope pay packets ended for me years ago , since then cash has been the Option not the norm.

Digital finance already rules , fact ,it beats out cash sales dramatically.

How long is cash about, a couple, maybe a few generations Max.

Not one mention of any coin above because imho That coins still a twinkle in a minds eye.

But ecologically and economically ,cash not crypto is in tatters.

Code can be improved,as can algorithms ,fiats not ever getting any better.

Good luck on all that.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Good luck on all that.

Like I want that per say, it's just the evolution of the way we use money.
A guy can have an opinion on what will happen without liking it dude.
As for eco comments.

Think about it but to make it nice for your brain replace crypto with apple psy googlepay or PayPal.

Now if all money right now switched to your favourite one of them, you know like when brown envelopes became bank accounts.

Right so were all on pay weva , close all banks fire the gaurds and bin the trucks logistics and such, oh and finally turn the f##kin lights off in banks and their offices after being on years.

Now that eco saving imho would eclipse the eco cost of the system that replaces it and also the crypto system we see now.
Again just an opinion , not a dream ,no bet in this game here.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

No more banks on every corner.

Where are you going to get a loan?

No more Physical cash to consume resource to manufacture.

How are you going to pay for things when there is no internet access?

No need to move cash from pocket to palm or anywahere to or from a branch.

I'd rather pay people to transport and protect a physical commodity than pay people to set up server farms in warehouses that burn power and have little to show for it.

Digital finance already rules , fact ,it beats out cash sales dramatically.

Using debt/credit/ACH transfers that cost less than a cent to clear.

Code can be improved,as can algorithms ,fiats not ever getting any better.

It's physical and digital.


A single ACH server could handle all of the transactions BTC does in a year for a few thousand dollars in operational cost (versus $116,041 USD for a single BTC block which is, what, ~10 minutes?). All of the overhead cost of BTC is because of decentralization. It's not worth it. If decentralization is important (which I don't think it is), a more efficient solution will have to be found.

 

[Space Lynx]

Ford it is easy to rebuttal a lot of those questions, but I would simply state that the banking system is far to powerful to ever overcome... the hubris of any man who thinks they are capable of that is very funny to me, even at Bitcoin's highest point, it was a fraction of 0.000001% of the world economy lol

Also, I would argue cash based system has its merits, because it allows for many industries, good or bad to exist when normally they can't because there is too many overseeing eyes - which in turn increases overall capital because more people are spending money, with bitcoin... people can and will watch every transaction.

Also, solar flares will wipe out the satellites every 100 years or so, so yeah... you probably don't want your entire economy digitised... not to mention the national security threat of other nation states taking out full grids during war time to halt your economy. Best to have a hybrid system like we do now.

 

[Boatvan]

https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/48...to-coup-behind-oyster-s-recent-exit-scam.html

Just posting because it is relevant. Not expressing opinions, just a fascinating story.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

QUOTE "FordGT90Concept, post: 3933170, member: 60463"]Where are you going to get a loan?

Answer
Do they pass me cash when I get a loan , no a(any ol) company transfers a credit

How are you going to pay for things when there is no internet access?

Answer
Really , swipe pay like bank cards do now

I'd rather pay people to do that than pay people to set up server farms in warehouses that burn power and have little to show for it.

Answer
I don't personally care what you like or i like when it comes to what I Think the Man will do.
And that's not a viable argument if the environment were better off, people Can work elsewhere and do work where they want and can , and all those companies rape nature to make money.

Using debt/credit/ACH transfers that cost less than a cent to clear.

Answer
Read my post, you can use the digital brand you like ,this time im not banging the crypto drum , though I still think it will be involved of a sort.

It's physical and digital.

Answer
It's largely digital ,with a Physical option that costs serious money and power and staff to maintain, too much and we do pay for it.

Out of this months wages i like most will spend 60-80% digitally back out.

Sorry ford i did bad at formatting.

I respect your opinion, and I do like cash personally I prefer to see what I have, but i am continually forced to pay digitally, and imho The Man will colude with some Men to feck us over via a crash first, hopefully I am wrong on the last bit.
And i likely watched too much mr robot

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Ford it is easy to rebuttal a lot of those questions, but I would simply state that the banking system is far to powerful to ever overcome...

But it is not. If you hate banks so much, close your account and get a credit union account. It's a cooperative, not corporate.


Even so, I'd argue that the best solution for the alleged problem cryptocurrencies try to solve is having the UN set up and maintain ACH servers for global use and pass operational costs on to the institutions that use the service. There's no reason why an ACH can't act like PayPal does on a global scale--it's just that no one has the authority to do so. PayPal is a corporation settling debts with their own assets (which is why they are fast).

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

But it is not. If you hate banks so much, close your account and get a credit union account. It's a cooperative, not corporate.


Even so, I'd argue that the best solution for the alleged problem cryptocurrencies try to solve is having the UN set up and maintain ACH servers for global use and pass operational costs on to the institutions that use the service. There's no reason why an ACH can't act like PayPal does on a global scale--it's just that no one has the authority to do so. PayPal is a corporation settling debts their their own assets (which is why they are fast).

They were not using their own assets as security on transaction one , they got big off transaction fees ,they were not already big, otherwise I agree.

But that doesn't kill crypto, and smart people are working on the very issues you and others see in them, it's not impossible that they arrive at a solution we could all get behind, but like going to mars, it's going to take development innovation and creativity to get there.

Just shutting it all down does not constitute progress in either case so i can't see it happening or back that ideology.

Imho the fed and our counterparts have been far from perfect and a better system can be found.

And I am definitely not getting behind any thread about an evolving technology just turning into loads of people slating it, i have seen loads of things called rotten before this point that i wouldn't be without now.

 

[Space Lynx]

They were not using their own assets as security on transaction one , they got big off transaction fees ,they were not already big, otherwise I agree.

But that doesn't kill crypto, and smart people are working on the very issues you and others see in them, it's not impossible that they arrive at a solution we could all get behind, but like going to mars, it's going to take development innovation and creativity to get there.

Just shutting it all down does not constitute progress in either case so i can't see it happening or back that ideology.

Imho the fed and our counterparts have been far from perfect and a better system can be found.

It doesn't matter if a better system can be found. You will never overthrow the power of the banks and government treasury bonds. The only reason America has not had to pay its debt on several wars is because we keep raising debt ceiling and other countries keep buying our treasury bonds, that stuff just won't translate over, its far to complex, and it is the only reason America keeps chugging along.
Hubris blinds all men.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Do they pass me cash when I get a loan , no a(any ol) company transfers a credit

Because it's same as cash (legal tender). ACH (digital) is preferred because it is more efficient and secure.

Really , swipe pay like bank cards do now

Banks don't swipe cards when there is no internet. It's a very complicated process that involves the Federal Reserve and Treasury Notes in the USA. Even when there is internet, certain aspects of transactions are still handled this way.

I don't personally care what you like or i like when it comes to what I Think the Man will do.
And that's not a viable argument if the environment were better off, people Can work elsewhere and do work where they want and can , and all those companies rape nature to make money.

Cryptocurrencies literally *do* "rape nature." The environmental impact of financial institutions is minimal when considered as a function of employing people. If the guards/transporters worked in trucking instead, they would likely have a similar environmental footprint. If the clerks worked in healthcare instead, they would also have a similar footprint. Take someone that runs a cryptocurrency operation and instead make them do a regular 9-5 job shutting down their mining operation, the environmental savings are huge. This argument goes for most data farms though, not just cryptocurrency.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It doesn't matter if a better system can be found. You will never overthrow the power of the banks and government treasury bonds. The only reason America has not had to pay its debt on several wars is because we keep raising debt ceiling and other countries keep buying our treasury bonds, that stuff just won't translate over, its far to complex, and it is the only reason America keeps chugging along.
Hubris blinds all men.

As it appears to be doing so to you, because a plan has worked to this point doesn't mean continuous success for ever uncontested and America is certainly not uncontested in today's world.
I don't have any answers , mostly questions but I've an open mind on the matter, im looking at it objectively, hence why I have lestened my hate of trump ,i think at least his assertiveness is a plus , sorry im not v political i shouldn't mention it but im displaying ability to change my mind on topics.

Just not crypto, it's here to stay, updates are likely incoming.

@ford there are less difficulties, in doing all you have issues with, then there are sending men to mars or cleaning the plastic out the ocean.

Thankfully I don't have to have all your Answers, as i said a tech based on crypto will emerge that's got enough of those issues resolved ,cash is not perfect , crypto is not perfect , you have answers for everything because you have debated every angle of this to a fine point so im not up for more with you, as i said i agree there are issues atm..

Data farms, whut are we pulling the plug on everything. Go you, id like to see you try that one

 

[FordGT90Concept]

They were not using their own assets as security on transaction one , they got big off transaction fees ,they were not already big, otherwise I agree.

But that doesn't kill crypto, and smart people are working on the very issues you and others see in them, it's not impossible that they arrive at a solution we could all get behind, but like going to mars, it's going to take development innovation and creativity to get there.

Just shutting it all down does not constitute progress in either case so i can't see it happening or back that ideology.

Imho the fed and our counterparts have been far from perfect and a better system can be found.

And I am definitely not getting behind any thread about an evolving technology just turning into loads of people slating it, i have seen loads of things called rotten before this point that i wouldn't be without now.

I totally agree a better system will eventually be created but I highly doubt it will be decentralized simply because of the cost of establishing trust.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I totally agree a better system will eventually be created but I highly doubt it will be decentralized simply because of the cost of establishing trust.

I think code or an algorithm or quatumm encryption or all of them can make both happen, decentralised and secure , at low cost.

It's the present invention that you have issues with most i think and I have issues with it too, i also as you know mined a bit and got involved a bit, for hobby purposes mostly though not massive financial gain.
But for years before that i folded@ home with no one calling me out for killing the environment, respectfully(i also bought a golf tdi to save the earth (but the man lied ,literally,its killing it)) ,i have issues with people telling me what I can and can't do while i Am being law abiding citizen like most.
So it grates a bit but to be fair i get it(the eco argument), so have always worked hard and spent money to keep power use constrained both folding or mining.(for example it has been my heating alone for five to seven years now)
After all the messing about i came to my prior mentioned conclusions, i hope im wrong because theirs anguish on that path.

 

[Space Lynx]

I think code or an algorithm or quatumm encryption or all of them can make both happen, decentralised and secure , at low cost.

It's the present invention that you have issues with most i think and I have issues with it too, i also as you know mined a bit and got involved a bit, for hobby purposes mostly though not massive financial gain.
But for years before that i folded@ home with no one calling me out for killing the environment, respectfully(i also bought a golf tdi to save the earth (but the man lied ,literally,its killing it)) ,i have issues with people telling me what I can and can't do while i Am being law abiding citizen like most.
So it grates a bit but to be fair i get it(the eco argument), so have always worked hard and spent money to keep power use constrained both folding or mining.(for example it has been my heating alone for five to seven years now)
After all the messing about i came to my prior mentioned conclusions, i hope im wrong because theirs anguish on that path.

Good luck stopping the United States military when you tell you want to decentralise their Federal paychecks.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Good luck stopping the United States military when you tell you want to decentralise their Federal paychecks.

What, shit I've only got a rat'ing rifle , luckily I am not an activist more a debater eh

 

[FordGT90Concept]

But for years before that i folded@ home with no one calling me out for killing the environment...

It's a donation to a good cause and it's not designed to be wasteful for the sake of being wasteful.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It's a donation to a good cause and it's not designed to be wasteful for the sake of being wasteful.

Fair enough but you see the power used and environmental impact are the same, it's ironic.
I am crunching for heat presently might have to start folding soon, it's getting cold in Old Trafford.

I seriously don't see why more don't heat with pcs (crunching obviously)

Im out till i find ny argumentativeness again nite.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I seriously don't see why more don't heat with pcs (crunching obviously)

I would if my systems were wasteful but they are not (95w TDP is my highest processor and I refuse to use GPU for science). I end up using a ~600w space heater on top of my 20,000w furnace. Winter be cold, yo.

Efficient computers mean low power bill in the summer.

 

[hat]

I refuse to use GPU for science

Just out of dumb curiosity... why?

 

[Space Lynx]

Just out of dumb curiosity... why?

probably longevity for his gpu I guess, Folding does work them hard non-stop. but on the same hand, I don't recall of any GPU dying from it, so I am not sure

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Just out of dumb curiosity... why?

More difficult to catch errors. A "breakthrough" based on GPU computations could simply be the result of a computational error. GPUs are fine to use as a proof of concept but to prove a result, it really needs to be done on CPUs. This is why the vast majority of super computers are still CPU-centric.

I quit F@H because they moved from CPU to GPU. To add insult to injury, they didn't add redundancy to double-check all results. So I moved to WCG and never looked back. WCG is mostly CPU-based. You have to opt-in to GPU work (never did) and I don't think they had a GPU-based project in a long time.

 

[R-T-B]

More difficult to catch errors. A "breakthrough" based on GPU computations could simply be the result of a computational error. GPUs are fine to use as a proof of concept but to prove a result, it really needs to be done on CPUs. This is why the vast majority of super computers are still CPU-centric.

I quit F@H because they moved from CPU to GPU. To add insult to injury, they didn't add redundancy to double-check all results. So I moved to WCG and never looked back. WCG is mostly CPU-based. You have to opt-in to GPU work (never did) and I don't think they had a GPU-based project in a long time.

I mean, there are methods to check the results after the fact I'd assume. They certainly are not useless for science. That idea is silly. Especially when we consider quadros/Workstation cards and such.

Cryptocurrencies literally *do* "rape nature."

So does pretty much everything man does involving carbon energy. Choosing to care about this one particular energy use case while not paying much attention or assigning such harsh terms to others is quite showing of bias.