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Not for the first trip.

Over the space of 20 years and most of the cost went into developing completely new technologies specifically made for the JWT mission. Going to Mars will not require such. Adaptation to existing technology and science as all that is required at this point. No part of the mission to Mars will require cooling to a few degrees K above absolute zero.

in that case i change my answer to agree with you then, however, seeing as how we spent 1.7 trillion on the failed f-35 jet program (also government helping a private contractor), my confidence in government helping spacex is not... very motivated.
 
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I think you misunderstand me, I am specifically speaking of rockets and space travel of the human species, I love telescopes, I love Hubble and I am sure I will love JWST, but those are a magnitude cheaper to fund than human space flight. If anything it should be pre-programmed or remote control robots on Mars for decades building us a decent starting point, the idea of sending men to Mars within 10 years as Elon wants to is a waste of resources, similar to his Tesla orbiting Mars right now.
I see what you mean now. I might get some bad points, but I think Elon M is just a lunatic with way too much money. I have no idea why some people worship his delusions like they were divine commandments.

To do it and get out into the solar system. We can't keep mining Earth forever and there are plenty of minerals that are difficult to mine on Earth be easy to get at out in space and on Mars. Having a permanent and sustanible outpost on Mars will be very useful to any and all interplanetary space operations. The Moon is first but Mars will soon follow.
Why do we always need to mine something else? Why can't we just stop overpopulating Earth, switch to renewables and make do with what we have? Why does all technology have to be obsolete after 2-5 years? And if something does get obsolete (there needs to be some progress, of course), then why don't we develop technologies that can be recycled at the end of their lifetimes? Constant progress means constant waste production. Do we really want to leave behind a universe filled with rubbish in the name of progress?

These are rhetorical questions, not directly aimed at you or anyone else.
 
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failed f-35 jet program
Failed? What failed about it?
my confidence in government helping spacex is not... very motivated.
SpaceX doesn't get much "help" from any government. SpaceX gets paid to do work, sure but that's different. SpaceX isn't getting any hand-outs.

Why do we always need to mine something else?
Not something else, elements we already need which are out there in relative abundance.
 
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Failed? What failed about it?

SpaceX doesn't get much "help" from any government. SpaceX gets paid to do work, sure but that's different. SpaceX isn't getting any hand-outs.


Not something else, elements we already need which are out there in relative abundance.

the brakes/landing gear and many electronic issues occur on a regular basis, even last week I read about an F-35 landing on its belly cause the wheels would not come out. kind of sad for 1.7 trillion, also not sure what these jets do that previous cheaper jets could not do. any war we have we already outpowered everyone, and countries that can match us toe to toe in air have nukes, hence why we will never go to war with said countries. so the f-35 was really wasted, and I am pretty sure China already has a drone jet that can outmaneuver anything a human powered jet can do, due to the limitations of the human body.

its still costing tax payers a fortune:

https://www.defensenews.com/air/202...ce-may-not-be-able-to-afford-new-f-35-engine/

and this article lists a lot of expensive issues that happen on a regular basis, we as tax payers have to pay for.


Correction: Why do we always need to mine more?

I have to agree with you on this one. I think as a species we really need to hit the brakes and re-evaluate our lifestyles.
 
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I have to agree with you on this one. I think as a species we really need to hit the brakes and re-evaluate our lifestyles.
I couldn't agree more! I've never intended to spend all my life working for nothing, but when I look at inflation, workplace attitudes, and how rapidly the minimum pension age has been changing, I might be doing just that.
 
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I couldn't agree more! I've never intended to spend all my life working for nothing, but when I look at inflation, workplace attitudes, and how rapidly the minimum pension age has been changing, I might be doing just that.


yep, my only hope for a good retirement is inheriting my parents house, which is paid off in 7 years. im going to help them buy a new roof next year. its my only chance of owning land and a house. so i just have to hope my parents don't do anything rash and take out extra mortgages on it. also United States has a law that if you are on Medicaid, they can take your house after your death, cause america cares f-35 jets more than poor people having upward mobility. my mom doesnt work and is on medicaid. so yeah. im prob fucked too.
 

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Should there be any other purpose for success and evolution? I mean, why advance in a field if it results in nothing? Life's purpose is happiness, yours and your loved ones. Otherwise, it's just wasted 80-odd years.


Actually, going to space provided me with some happiness. Learning about the universe makes me happy in a strange way. Other than that, I agree.


Fair enough. :) With no kids, I don't have that luxury. I just need to find some motivation that I currently don't even have the trace of. :D
You think it should be measured by an individual rather than evolutionary advancement be measured by a species? Let's not forget my responses have been to Lynx's individual claims regarding our evolution, the way I see it is that it's for all, I don't think you can measure it's success by a single persons reaction. When I do agree with him, it's because I am someone who has little faith in human nature but there is goodness and kindness out there so I refuse to write off the whole human race because a proportion of it is greedy/selfish/evil or whatever hence why I don't think evolution can be judged solely on that.
 
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yep, my only hope for a good retirement is inheriting my parents house, which is paid off in 7 years. im going to help them buy a new roof next year. its my only chance of owning land and a house. so i just have to hope my parents don't do anything rash and take out extra mortgages on it. also United States has a law that if you are on Medicaid, they can take your house after your death, cause america cares f-35 jets more than poor people having upward mobility. my mom doesnt work and is on medicaid. so yeah. im prob fucked too.
Wow. The USA never stops to amaze me. Positively with their food, negatively with their politics.

My hope is getting a mortgage and paying it off before I retire. It just takes too much willpower and sacrifice of quality free time to save up for a deposit.

My other hope is saving up in the next 2-3 decades, and moving back to retire in Hungary, buying a cheap village house and living off my UK pension fund.

I haven't decided yet. I'm not rushing it (for now).

You think it should be measured by an individual rather than evolutionary advancement be measured by a species?
You can look at our general happiness as a species. Even that's down in the dust at the moment. Apart from computers, the 21st century has given us depression, burnout and a ton of other mental health problems, which won't disappear unless people stop believing all the self-help crap out there and the systemically maintained illusion that the system works.
 
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Wow. The USA never stops to amaze me. Positively with their food, negatively with their politics.

My hope is getting a mortgage and paying it off before I retire. It just takes too much willpower and sacrifice of quality free time to save up for a deposit.

My other hope is saving up in the next 2-3 decades, and moving back to retire in Hungary, buying a cheap village house and living off my UK pension fund.

I haven't decided yet. I'm not rushing it (for now).


You can look at our general happiness as a species. Even that's down in the dust at the moment. Apart from computers, the 21st century has given us depression, burnout and a ton of other mental health problems, which won't disappear unless people stop believing all the self-help crap out there and the systemically maintained illusion that the system works.

yeah its the 1993 omnibus bill, passed by clinton and the democrats. my mother recently discovered this law cause her mom died from covid in may 2020, but since my grandma was on medicaid they took her house to pay back some of the medical that medicaid had spent for her oxygen machine, and so on so forth (this does not apply to medicare) but since my grandma was considered poor she was on both medicaid and medicare.

good ol democrats, can't fix the rich loopholes, but had no problem making sure poor people had no inheritance. i used to care about the world getting better, but then i realized all the **** that goes down, like this, or the 1.7 trillion on the f-35, and it makes me go, hmm... why bother.

I would go with the Hungary option personally, and for any medical you need you can fly back to UK for expensive stuff as dual citizen, and the cheap stuff do in Hungary. Uk is going to be so overpopulated by then anyway, it already is to be fair. I went to a zoo on bank holiday in England about 4 years ago. couldn't move an inch, whats the point of bank holiday if i can't go enjoy it anywhere. lol
 

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Wow. The USA never stops to amaze me. Positively with their food, negatively with their politics.

My hope is getting a mortgage and paying it off before I retire. It just takes too much willpower and sacrifice of quality free time to save up for a deposit.

My other hope is saving up in the next 2-3 decades, and moving back to retire in Hungary, buying a cheap village house and living off my UK pension fund.

I haven't decided yet. I'm not rushing it (for now).


You can look at our general happiness as a species. Even that's down in the dust at the moment. Apart from computers, the 21st century has given us depression, burnout and a ton of other mental health problems, which won't disappear unless people stop believing all the self-help crap out there and the systemically maintained illusion that the system works.
Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting life is great by any means, to some extent I think it's expectations that are the problem, even when I was a young lad in the sixties life was a galaxy away from what it is like now, much simpler and arguably much more family/people orientated, as a society now, people want more, demand more and expect more and it's understandable but I am not sure that life was better then and in part that is my point, back then the UK's average life span was some 10 years less than it is today, almost twice as many people were dying from cancers etc etc, that too is evolution.

I get what you are saying about the mortgage and home, I have said for a long time that it is so much more difficult to just be able to afford a house today with the prices they are increasing by, far and above any wage increases but the mortgage interest rates I was paying on the first house I bought back in the eighties was 11%, some 4 times higher than today. At my age I am lucky enough to be in a good position, retired, homeowner, mortgage paid and all that, but the downside to that of course is I am a lot older, in that respect little has changed sadly. As for the "system", as far as I can remember it never worked :)
 
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Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting life is great by any means, to some extent I think it's expectations that are the problem, even when I was a young lad in the sixties life was a galaxy away from what it is like now, much simpler and arguably much more family/people orientated, as a society now, people want more, demand more and expect more and it's understandable but I am not sure that life was better then and in part that is my point, back then the UK's average life span was some 10 years less than it is today, almost twice as many people were dying from cancers etc etc, that too is evolution.
Exactly! :) People expect life to be perfect, work hard to get there, and get disappointed when they realise that nothing ever is or will be perfect. I know many people working 60+ hours a week because "money, money, money". Where will these people be in 20 years? In the same jobs (maybe at a different company), working the same 60+ hours a week. I also know some people whose main interest is "self-development and career building". My boss keeps saying to me as well that I'm worth a lot more than what I'm doing (I'm a warehouse trainer), which is fair enough, I guess, but what would a higher position give me apart from the obvious pay increase? More responsibility, more stress, more demand to be flexible, more mental exhaustion. No thanks, I'd rather live life slow, and enjoy the small bits - PC building, games, time with my girlfriend, road trips, and visiting my family when the covid hysteria finally stops.

I get what you are saying about the mortgage and home, I have said for a long time that it is so much more difficult to just be able to afford a house today with the prices they are increasing by, far and above any wage increases but the mortgage interest rates I was paying on the first house I bought back in the eighties was 11%, some 4 times higher than today. At my age I am lucky enough to be in a good position, retired, homeowner, mortgage paid and all that, but the downside to that of course is I am a lot older, in that respect little has changed sadly. As for the "system", as far as I can remember it never worked :)
It must feel good to own your home. :) I've been planning on it for a while, but I don't feel like I'm getting any closer to it. It's not only house prices that are increasing, but the cost of living in general, making it harder and harder to save for a house that's just getting more and more expensive. I might consider the "retiring in Hungary" option that @lynx29 commented on. Currently, you can easily afford to live on a basic UK pension, and it's much cheaper to buy a house there. I could pay a small part of my pension into social care (NI-equivalent) to get medical support, I guess. The downside of this plan is that my girlfriend is Lithuanian, and as much as she likes Hungary, she couldn't do much there.
 

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I have always said you can work your tits off and have no life but more money, or not work and have a nice relaxing life but no money. I have actually met people who have deliberately picked the second. Some of my fiends that work have no time to do nothing as they are working all the time, and seemingly have less spare cash than me and my partner who are on benefits(joint UC with her long term sickness and pip, me carers allowance) I have never really worked much because of circumstances brought on by childhood abuse, never did well at school, because i had other things on my mind(abuse) but to be honest the only thing i have missed out on is more money. I am not perfect by any means and in my mind at least am broken. Some people are total slaves to their jobs and do not realise it. They work their whole life own their own homes and have tons of cash but have never done fuck all but work work work.
 
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I have always said you can work your tits off and have no life but more money, or not work and have a nice relaxing life but no money. I have actually met people who have deliberately picked the second. Some of my fiends that work have no time to do nothing as they are working all the time, and seemingly have less spare cash than me and my partner who are on benefits(joint UC with her long term sickness and pip, me carers allowance) I have never really worked much because of circumstances brought on by childhood abuse, never did well at school, because i had other things on my mind(abuse) but to be honest the only thing i have missed out on is more money. I am not perfect by any means and in my mind at least am broken. Some people are total slaves to their jobs and do not realise it. They work their whole life own their own homes and have tons of cash but have never done fuck all but work work work.
My take on money is aiming for the middle ground. Work as much as you need so that you have a good amount of free time with some money to spend. Time and money are worthless on their own, but can do wonders when you have a bit of both. The primary factor in how much you have isn't how much you earn, but your budget, anyway. Don't buy what you can't afford to maintain and don't spend more than what you have. Simple as that. It's confirmed by the fact that some people live happily on minimum wage, while others struggle to make ends meet on 40k+ a year.

Sorry to hear about your childhood abuse. :( All you can do is stay strong, I guess.
 
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My take on money is aiming for the middle ground. Work as much as you need so that you have a good amount of free time with some money to spend. Time and money are worthless on their own, but can do wonders when you have a bit of both. The primary factor in how much you have isn't how much you earn, but your budget, anyway. Don't buy what you can't afford to maintain and don't spend more than what you have. Simple as that. It's confirmed by the fact that some people live happily on minimum wage, while others struggle to make ends meet on 40k+ a year.

Sorry to hear about your childhood abuse. :( All you can do is stay strong, I guess.

one of the benefits of the UK/EU is 28 days promised vacation for everyone by law. That really really helps relieve from stress and improves overall health. I think you all take that for granted. My Dad has worked almost 7 days a week (cause his company can't find any extra workers) 8-12 hour shifts depending on the day, so not only does he not get weekends, but he has also not taken a vacation in probably 10+ years. Mentally he is not a healthy person, nor physically (tends to eat the worst thing he can get his hands on, pretty sure he doesn't care if he dies at this point). Being his son it is sad to watch, I have told him to quit many times and live more simply, but he refuses, he likes to buy junk. America is a very broken place.

I know my new job gives me 15 days vacation per year, and I have already taken a few 4 day weekends, and it really does help a ton, to reset w.e it is in the brain that gives us a good outlook on life.

Long live the UK! Long live the Queen! :rockout:
 

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Most middle class people don't own their house or their car, its probably all bought with credit. There is not many people that can afford to buy a 30 or 40 grand car outright. They just need the car to look flash to their equally need to look flash neighbours. the problem is then you are a slave to your house/car, if you lost your job you would lose your house/car. I came into this world with nothing and will be happy enough to go out of it with nothing, not much point spending your whole life accruing stuff and money when you can't take it it with you, unless of course you want to give your kids a reason to not work for it by leaving it all to them.

I am ok, i just have a problem now with controlling my anger, if i don't avoid fights i end going to far as my barrier goes and i can't control it. I am so full of anger and hate at this shitty world, i can't wait to leave it.
 
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Most middle class people don't own their house or their car, its probably all bought with credit. There is not many people that can afford to buy a 30 or 40 grand car outright. They just need the car to look flash to their equally need to look flash neighbours. the problem is then you are a slave to your house/car, if you lost your job you would lose your house/car. I came into this world with nothing and will be happy enough to go out of it with nothing, not much point spending your whole life accruing stuff and money when you can't take it it with you, unless of course you want to give your kids a reason to not work for it by leaving it all to them.

I am ok, i just have a problem now with controlling my anger, if i don't avoid fights i end going to far as my barrier goes and i can't control it. I am so full of anger and hate at this shitty world, i can't wait to leave it.

I saw a therapist for social anxiety in the past, it helped me a lot. You should consider it, you'd be surprised I think how much it might help. I just try to enjoy the small things in life, like turning off all the noise in the world, and then trying new hobbies, like gardening/feeding the birds, it's really helped me a lot at a personal level. Anyways, best of luck to you, remember you only get one life to live, use it as wisely as you can. The world will go on with or without us, so maybe looking at pretty things like birds and living more slowly is enough? This is how I feel anyway, its very Buddhist of me maybe, I don't know
 
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Most middle class people don't own their house or their car, its probably all bought with credit. There is not many people that can afford to buy a 30 or 40 grand car outright. They just need the car to look flash to their equally need to look flash neighbours. the problem is then you are a slave to your house/car, if you lost your job you would lose your house/car. I came into this world with nothing and will be happy enough to go out of it with nothing, not much point spending your whole life accruing stuff and money when you can't take it it with you, unless of course you want to give your kids a reason to not work for it by leaving it all to them.
I know. I myself am in a dilemma about whether to work my ass off and save for a house (mortgage) or not. With being only with my girlfriend, and no children planned (she can't have them and I don't want them), it might not be worth it. As for cars, again: one should buy what one can afford. There's no need to look richer than you actually are. People who know you will see through those lies anyway. We're here in life to enjoy it as much as we can, not to show off to neighbours. The most fun car I could afford was my Fiesta ST. I'm so glad I bought it in 2019 before the crisis hit, and I won't part with it until it falls apart naturally.

I am ok, i just have a problem now with controlling my anger, if i don't avoid fights i end going to far as my barrier goes and i can't control it. I am so full of anger and hate at this shitty world, i can't wait to leave it.
Are you sure it's your problem alone? I mean, the world is pretty shit right now thanks to being run by shitty humans who were voted into power by other shitty humans. It's just one of the reasons why I don't want children, and will also be happy to leave the world leaving nothing behind.

Do you know the reason for your anger? It might be worth discovering. My anger comes mainly from not being allowed to see my parents and brother for the last 2 years thanks to the most idiotic legislation I've ever seen (covid?). I'm also angry about the fact that one has to work his ass off for a lifetime without getting anything back. Literally anything! Even the pension you get is the money you paid into a fund that someone got rich off of... if you live long enough to get it, anyway. But I know it's not me. It's just the world around me using and abusing people like me as much as possible.
 
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I go by Oasis textbook rules.

You gotta roll with it.
You gotta take your time.
You gotta say what your saying don't let anybody get in your way.

And listen to the Beatles a lot too.

My mental outlook is set by me, so it's only shit if I say so.
But if that didn't work, and hate filled me, I would be doing as lynx say's.
If you can get help, reach out.
 

Tatty_One

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I suppose having spent almost 28 years in the Army that I became used to having no life, I mean whilst you do get some spare time and a decent amount of annual leave, you can be dragged back in and sent to the back of nowhere at literally an hours notice, when you relate that to pay and think that back in the early millennium an 18 year old Private soldier would be deployed to Afghanistan for 6 months (zero time off) and get shot at for just over £17k a year back around 2003, I suppose the benefits of the Armed Forces are that if you do work really hard and progress through the ranks the pay becomes at a point damn good and the free pension is good if you get to those ranks.

I then left and got my 2nd job which was also my last as a regional manager for a national youth charity, the work was fairly demanding but it was like one long holiday in comparison to my Army days and I did have more free time to spend with my family, but I know all too well that that story does not apply to so many of the current working generation out there.
 
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I suppose having spent almost 28 years in the Army that I became used to having no life, I mean whilst you do get some spare time and a decent amount of annual leave, you can be dragged back in and sent to the back of nowhere at literally an hours notice, when you relate that to pay and think that back in the early millennium an 18 year old Private soldier would be deployed to Afghanistan for 6 months (zero time off) and get shot at for just over £17k a year back around 2003, I suppose the benefits of the Armed Forces are that if you do work really hard and progress through the ranks the pay becomes at a point damn good and the free pension is good if you get to those ranks.

I then left and got my 2nd job which was also my last as a regional manager for a national youth charity, the work was fairly demanding but it was like one long holiday in comparison to my Army days and I did have more free time to spend with my family, but I know all too well that that story does not apply to so many of the current working generation out there.

I always tell young people in the UK to become lorry drivers, 34k quid a year a damn near starting (I saw an advert recently because of the shortage in UK they are starting at around 34k quid), and free training at most places, 50k a year after a couple good years with no dings. Depends where you go of course, and you don't have to do it forever, just do do it for a few years while still living with parents to stack some money. Hell, by age 27 or so I seen some young guys have 300k in the bank just from their semi driving.

Plus you get to listen to music, podcasts, audiobooks while you drive, not a bad gig really.
 
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I always tell young people in the UK to become lorry drivers, 34k quid a year a damn near starting (I saw an advert recently because of the shortage in UK they are starting at around 34k quid), and free training at most places, 50k a year after a couple good years with no dings. Depends where you go of course, and you don't have to do it forever, just do do it for a few years while still living with parents to stack some money. Hell, by age 27 or so I seen some young guys have 300k in the bank just from their semi driving.

Plus you get to listen to music, podcasts, audiobooks while you drive, not a bad gig really.
Do you reckon you could do just weekends?
 
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they are desperate for drivers still, so yeah probably have plenty of part time gigs.
Yeah I will have a look at that.
 
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