The TPU UK Clubhouse

[MilkyWay]

Americanisms; bellow is a quote from urban dictionary.

Billy-Jo-Bob: Yo whassap dude, yo mama got any 'erbs?
Mary-Jane-Sue: Yeah, they're in the trunk behind the alloominum foil and math books. Be careful of my sweat pants and sneakers.

"Scotch-Irish" but wait my understanding is that Scotch was a drink?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Americanisms; bellow is a quote from urban dictionary.



"Scotch-Irish" but wait my understanding is that Scotch was a drink?

Naaa Whiskey is the drink, since when have you called anything by the country of manufacture, Scotch is a compmany that makes sticky tape and "post it" notes

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Have you seen this rubbish -->http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llets-Wednesdays-student-protests-London.html

They won't do anything to the rioters a few months ago but all of a sudden a Pre-planned march needs the use of Armored vehicles and rubber bullets

Don't want to get into politics, but this takes the piss especially as muslim extremists are allowed to burn flags in the streets and mock our dead, there was talks of them having a "service" today to burn poppies and the like which sickens me to my stomach as today (rememberence day) is nothing to even do with what they are protesting for. Shoot the lot of the extremists and/or fuck them out of the UK.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Don't want to get into politics, but this takes the piss especially as muslim extremists are allowed to burn flags in the streets and mock our dead, there was talks of them having a "service" today to burn poppies and the like which sickens me to my stomach as today (rememberence day) is nothing to even do with what they are protesting for. Shoot the lot of the extremists and/or fuck them out of the UK.

The Home secretary has just made that group illegal and banned them, therefore if they do go on the streets, the police will kick the daylights out of them and lock them up for 2 years...... works for me!

 

[NdMk2o1o]

The Home secretary has just made that group illegal and banned them, therefore if they do go on the streets, the police will kick the daylights out of them and lock them up for 2 years...... works for me!

Let's hope so Tatty, sure they will just reform under a different name anyway but time will tell.

 

[Fourstaff]

Don't want to get into politics, but this takes the piss especially as muslim extremists are allowed to burn flags in the streets and mock our dead, there was talks of them having a "service" today to burn poppies and the like which sickens me to my stomach as today (rememberence day) is nothing to even do with what they are protesting for. Shoot the lot of the extremists and/or fuck them out of the UK.

Its just as insulting as drawing Prophet Muhammad as a pig, but you will always get jerks everywhere, and the media is especially good with flaming Muslim-non Muslim debates. They have a right of speech (in this case, using actions to "speak"), as much as they are unpleasant to all of us we cannot do anything. I am not saying that what they do is right, or defend their actions, I am saying that they have the right to do as they please. Blame it on the shitty immigration controls for letting these extremists in.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Its just as insulting as drawing Prophet Muhammad as a pig, but you will always get jerks everywhere, and the media is especially good with flaming Muslim-non Muslim debates. They have a right of speech (in this case, using actions to "speak"), as much as they are unpleasant to all of us we cannot do anything. I am not saying that what they do is right, or defend their actions, I am saying that they have the right to do as they please. Blame it on the shitty immigration controls for letting these extremists in.

I'm sorry but no, no it isn't the same as someone anonymously drawing a cartoon and publishing it on the interwebz, which if I recall was from a swedish paper not the UK. That's is a lot different than taking to the streets and burning flags of the country you live in and are deemed as a citizen, mocking dead soldiers on a day synonymously associatted with the atrocities of the 1st and 2nd WW when a lot of UK (as well as other nations) men and women died to protect that freedom of speech they so value.

This is not freedom of speech, these are threats they are making this is incitement and hate mongering which the last time I looked is against the law of this country and no longer qualifies under freedom of speech, and damn right too.

 

[human_error]

Its just as insulting as drawing Prophet Muhammad as a pig, but you will always get jerks everywhere, and the media is especially good with flaming Muslim-non Muslim debates. They have a right of speech (in this case, using actions to "speak"), as much as they are unpleasant to all of us we cannot do anything. I am not saying that what they do is right, or defend their actions, I am saying that they have the right to do as they please. Blame it on the shitty immigration controls for letting these extremists in.

They don't have the right to bring religious or political hatred. There is no right to free speech in the UK as we lack a constitution (although it is usually an accepted freedom, with some restrictions on spreading hatred or causing undue distress we do not have a right to it).

 

[NdMk2o1o]

United Kingdom citizens have a negative right to freedom of expression under the common law.[41] In 1998, the United Kingdom incorporated the European Convention, and the guarantee of freedom of expression it contains in Article 10, into its domestic law under the Human Rights Act. There are many exceptions including incitement,[42] incitement to racial hatred,[43] incitement to religious hatred, incitement to terrorism including encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications.... etc etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom

 

[Fourstaff]

I'm sorry but no, no it isn't the same as someone anonymously drawing a cartoon and publishing it on the interwebz, which if I recall was from a swedish paper not the UK. That's is a lot different than taking to the streets and burning flags of the country you live in and are deemed as a citizen, mocking dead soldiers on a day synonymously associatted with the atrocities of the 1st and 2nd WW when a lot of UK (as well as other nations) men and women died to protect that freedom of speech they so value.

This is not freedom of speech, these are threats they are making this is incitement and hate mongering which the last time I looked is against the law of this country and no longer qualifies under freedom of speech, and damn right too.

They don't have the right to bring religious or political hatred. There is no right to free speech in the UK as we lack a constitution (although it is usually an accepted freedom, with some restrictions on spreading hatred or causing undue distress we do not have a right to it).

Hate mongering and incitement of terrorism yes, that should be stopped, but mocking dead soldiers (and symbols attached to them) we have no say in my opinion. British soldiers have bled defending my rights, I am grateful for what they have done for me (and I pay my respects), but I cannot force everyone to share the same views as me. My mother (as a teacher) told me that troublemakers want attention, and as long as they are ignored their raison d'etre will fade. I am not sure how classroom control translates to real world, but I am willing to give it a try.

 

[human_error]

Hate mongering and incitement of terrorism yes, that should be stopped, but mocking dead soldiers (and symbols attached to them) we have no say in my opinion.

I strongly disagree with that view - they died for all of us to enjoy our freedom, and although I'm not saying we should force people to honour them, we should not allow people to mock them as it is hugely disrespectful and causes distress for their families.

Mocking the soldiers is hate mongering, as it is directing hate to the soldiers, as well as getting hate aimed squarely at all Muslims (as a lot of people will see Muslims insulting the forces, and will tar them all with the same brush).

**edit**

I will also point out people have been jailed for burning quarans in the UK, and I see burning poppies (especially on armistace day) as equally insulting to people.

 

[Fourstaff]

I strongly disagree with that view - they died for all of us to enjoy our freedom, and although I'm not saying we should force people to honour them, we should not allow people to mock them as it is hugely disrespectful and causes distress for their families.

Mocking the soldiers is hate mongering, as it is directing hate to the soldiers, as well as getting hate aimed squarely at all Muslims (as a lot of people will see Muslims insulting the forces, and will tar them all with the same brush).

If you strongly identify yourself to the opposing side (Nazi or Kaiser Wilhelm II or pick a choice), then I see no reason why you would respect the dead British soldiers. As a Nazi supporter you can and should be hanged, but if you are loyal to the House of Hohenzollern I cannot do anything about it. I understand that they are neither Hohenzollern loyalists or Nazis (or if they know them at all), but they seem to hate the British in Afghanistan and Iraq (and places like that), and choose to associate the poppy with the more recent wars.

 

[human_error]

If you strongly identify yourself to the opposing side (Nazi or Kaiser Wilhelm II or pick a choice), then I see no reason why you would respect the dead British soldiers. As a Nazi supporter you can and should be hanged, but if you are loyal to the House of Hohenzollern I cannot do anything about it. I understand that they are neither Hohenzollern loyalists or Nazis (or if they know them at all), but they seem to hate the British in Afghanistan and Iraq (and places like that), and choose to associate the poppy with the more recent wars.

As I said - I'm not saying people should be forced to honour them if they don't want to. But what they should not do is live in the UK enjoying its freedoms earned by the soliders and burn the symbol of thanks for the soldiers.

There is a huge difference between not honouring the soldiers, and burning the symbols of respect for them in the streets on a day where people around the country (and other parts of the world) pay respect to those soldiers.

 

[scaminatrix]

Put it this way - how would these people feel if we burnt the symbols that they hold dear to their heart?

They would hate it and probably react with mass riots. Food for thought.

 

[Fourstaff]

As I said - I'm not saying people should be forced to honour them if they don't want to. But what they should not do is live in the UK enjoying its freedoms earned by the soliders and burn the symbol of thanks for the soldiers.

There is a huge difference between not honouring the soldiers, and burning the symbols of respect for them in the streets on a day where people around the country (and other parts of the world) pay respect to those soldiers.

Which is why I said the UKBA is completely incompetent for letting them in.

Put it this way - how would these people feel if we burnt the symbols that they hold dear to their heart?

They would hate it and probably react with mass riots. Food for thought.

Indeed they will, but again, I will not stoop as low as to cause trouble because their interpretation of the symbol is different from mine. If they are expressing their distaste loudly but they don't cause trouble, I would probably just ignore them. If they cause trouble, then lock them up. Its that simple.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Its just as insulting as drawing Prophet Muhammad as a pig, but you will always get jerks everywhere, and the media is especially good with flaming Muslim-non Muslim debates. They have a right of speech (in this case, using actions to "speak"), as much as they are unpleasant to all of us we cannot do anything. I am not saying that what they do is right, or defend their actions, I am saying that they have the right to do as they please. Blame it on the shitty immigration controls for letting these extremists in.

Most of them are actually "born and bred" British nationals. I am a great advocate of free speech, free "actions" as you describe it is called rioting where I come from and is not free, it's actually a criminal offence, so i support anyone of whatever persuation having the public right to air their views, I contest anyone who breaks the law, including those who have my own beliefs. To be fair, whilst your points are completly valid, it's not just Muslim organisations who get fed to the propaganda machine, lets face it the EDL and BNP get crucified also from the opposite side of the spectrum.

 

[Fourstaff]

Most of them are actually "born and bred" British nationals. I am a great advocate of free speech, free "actions" as you describe it is called rioting where I come from and is not free, it's actually a criminal offence, so i support anyone of whatever persuation having the public right to air their views, I contest anyone who breaks the law, including those who have my own beliefs. To be fair, whilst your points are completly valid, it's not just Muslim organisations who get feed to the propaganda machine, lets face it the EDL and BNP get crucified also from the opposite side of the spectrum.

Rioting should be punished, I made that clear, but if you are demonstrating, that is perfectly fine, to me anyway. Yes, most of them are "born and bred", but there are a significant chunk of them which came in and invigorate the movement.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Rioting should be punished, I made that clear, but if you are demonstrating, that is perfectly fine, to me anyway. Yes, most of them are "born and bred", but there are a significant chunk of them which came in and invigorate the movement.

Agreed, "peaceful" demonstrations are good, thing is these days even if peaceful demonstrations "incite" violent reaction it becomes an offence as I understand it, which in effect is smothering those rights we are supposed to have.

 

[Bo$$]

it is a fine line which they enjoy walking on and complain when anyone else does the same, i think there are too many mosques around... they are getting too powerful in our country and think they have the right to do whatever the fuck they want

 

[Tatty_Two]

it is a fine line which they enjoy walking on and complain when anyone else does the same, i think there are too many mosques around... they are getting too powerful in our country and think they have the right to do whatever the fuck they want

You see in itself, you refer to them as "they", I would imagine because "they" are muslims and you are not, as opposed to using "we" because most of them are British, I don't say that because I think you are wrong, or because I disagree with you but just to point out the whole point of this really, if we were genuinly more inclusive in our approach as opposed to actually seeking out the differences and emphasising them, then there would be more harmony in our society and some (but by no means all) might not feel the need to demonstrate in the first place

I could very easily say that i lived in the middle east for four years, both in Kuwait and briefly in Saudi Arabia, and Christian places of worship were not allowed in those countries at the time, however thousands of their citizens were holidaying in the UK each summer and were demanding mosques be built in order that they may practice their religion, I choose not to emphasis that because that would be hypocracy on my part after writing my first paragraph..... ohhh damn I already did!

 

[Bo$$]

well many of my closest friends are muslim i mean no disrespect to them as never once have they dared to boast about their religion in my face or even discuss the differences in believe, i am happy they accept we dont believe what they do and are ok with it, i am refering to the people who feel they can burn poppies and think it is alright... to me it just shows how uneducated they are

 

[cheesy999]

i am refering to the people who feel they can burn poppies and think it is alright... to me it just shows how uneducated they are

doing something like burning poppies doesn't show the people doing it are uneducated, it just show they are bad people

 

[Fourstaff]

doing something like burning poppies doesn't show the people doing it are uneducated, it just show they are bad people

No, it shows that they are either assholes or ignorant. I will shave my friend's beard for a joke, and we will all be cool after a few laughs and a few punches, but if I do that in Middle East I will get myself killed.

 

[cheesy999]

No, it shows that they are either assholes or ignorant. I will shave my friend's beard for a joke, and we will all be cool after a few laughs and a few punches, but if I do that in Middle East I will get myself killed.

if people are assholes then wouldn't that make them bad people in most cases?

 

[Fourstaff]

if people are assholes then wouldn't that make them bad people in most cases?

There is indeed a correlation, but to me assholes and bad people are a bit different, like trolls and terrorists (exaggerated for convenience).