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The Ugly Truth About Hackers

FordGT90Concept

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#26
Hackers are like a bomb-squad. They remove the self-destructing code in the applications so they won't damage the software or system. How is that a bad thing? The "bullshit" lies in why people are putting self-destructing code in those applications in the first place. Where I'm from, we call that a virus and it is not tolerated.

I'm wary about laying money down for any game now. I don't like all the guilty until proven innocent "bullshit" software comes with today..
 

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#27
Hackers are like a bomb-squad. They remove the self-destructing code in the applications so they won't damage the software or system. How is that a bad thing? The "bullshit" lies in why people are putting self-destructing code in those applications in the first place. Where I'm from, we call that a virus and it is not tolerated.

I'm wary about laying money down for any game now. I don't like all the guilty until proven innocent "bullshit" software comes with today..
I agree. Pirates are the one's who get it easy compared to the people who buy it
 
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#28
They will include homebrew programmers in the same class? really? So friends of mine who have made some homebrew for certain phones, and other mobile devices are hackers and breaking federal law?


A couple got jobs for what they did.


Plus the actual term they are looking for is "crackers" as they crack the security. TO "hack" something together is more of fixing a puzzle or gaining results by cutting the pieces to fit how you want them. I hack stuff together all the time to make it work the way I want. I had a company come out and take pics of a GPS system I put together as they couldn't do it.

The article is a bullshit attempt to awaken the pubic to the "harm" these people cause. What about the harm caused to me when I can't watch movies I own over certain cables due to their DRM bullshit, it is just another ponzi like scheme to force consumers to buy new things when they are happy with the items they own. How many people have bought new stuff only as their new DVD player wouldn't work with this cable, or that TV in the way their old one would? How hard did they rape the public on the price of CD's, DVD's and now Blu-Ray?


The fact is when a company advertises a item with certain specs for a certain price, then removes some beneficial item, they should be forced to drop the price. If not by consumers, by laws and regulations. They have no problem spending millions they make in lobbying for their rights, to hold us down, but cry and moan about having to provide services they products at a fair price to the same consumers they are pillaging.
 

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#29
Also, isn't it funny how the article once didn't mention DRM and how it unfairly restricts competition and removes user's rights. Anyone tried selling a Steam game they no longer wanted, lately? Thought so.

Yeah, that writer is a corporate shill and deliberately wrote that article to be provocative. You could probably even call it a troll post, perhaps?
 
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#30
Hackers are like a bomb-squad. They remove the self-destructing code in the applications so they won't damage the software or system. How is that a bad thing? The "bullshit" lies in why people are putting self-destructing code in those applications in the first place. Where I'm from, we call that a virus and it is not tolerated.

I'm wary about laying money down for any game now. I don't like all the guilty until proven innocent "bullshit" software comes with today..
That code wouldn't have put in there to begin with if it wasn't for hackers. Now you rely on hackers to remove it. See where this is going?

They will include homebrew programmers in the same class? really? So friends of mine who have made some homebrew for certain phones, and other mobile devices are hackers and breaking federal law?


A couple got jobs for what they did.


Plus the actual term they are looking for is "crackers" as they crack the security. TO "hack" something together is more of fixing a puzzle or gaining results by cutting the pieces to fit how you want them. I hack stuff together all the time to make it work the way I want. I had a company come out and take pics of a GPS system I put together as they couldn't do it.

The article is a bullshit attempt to awaken the pubic to the "harm" these people cause. What about the harm caused to me when I can't watch movies I own over certain cables due to their DRM bullshit, it is just another ponzi like scheme to force consumers to buy new things when they are happy with the items they own. How many people have bought new stuff only as their new DVD player wouldn't work with this cable, or that TV in the way their old one would? How hard did they rape the public on the price of CD's, DVD's and now Blu-Ray?


The fact is when a company advertises a item with certain specs for a certain price, then removes some beneficial item, they should be forced to drop the price. If not by consumers, by laws and regulations. They have no problem spending millions they make in lobbying for their rights, to hold us down, but cry and moan about having to provide services they products at a fair price to the same consumers they are pillaging.
And people will always moan and cry in this "entitlement" age.
 

Solaris17

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#31
Its not a valid point. You are the only one that brought nationality into this. Who picks what is an exception? Common sense and in come cases history.
I think it was implied with all the bogus laws the USA has against digital rights I think thats NATIONS assuming were the best, alot of those countrys dont have our restrictions. You know incase the big bad coders decide to blow up the planet. So what a Scot hacked NASA He's right we do think were tough shit. You may not think we do. But your position on the topic is clear and its obvious why you wouldnt notice.

Admeral Ackbar says: Its a TRAP! WE CANNOT REPEL HULIGAINS OF THAT MAGNITUDE!
 
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#32
I think it was implied with all the bogus laws the USA has against digital rights I think thats NATIONS assuming were the best, alot of those countrys dont have our restrictions. You know incase the big bad coders decide to blow up the planet. So what a Scot hacked NASA He's right we do think were tough shit. You may not think we do. But your position on the topic is clear and its obvious why you wouldnt notice.

Admeral Ackbar says: Its a TRAP! WE CANNOT REPEL HULIGAINS OF THAT MAGNITUDE!
Stop saying "we". I know from experience now matter how good you are someone out there is better. Plus the US government is one of the most incompetent entities on the planet. Ever been to the DMV? Yeah I thought so.

All I know is this will turn into half the forum vs me in a few more posts.
 

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#33
I agree. Pirates are the one's who get it easy compared to the people who buy it
As it should be. They remove the bombs from the building so there's no fear of the building collapsing on top of you at some mad-man's whim.

I've had legimate games scream and yell at me to put the disk in the drive. Why? The disk isn't required for the game to function. Even then, the disk was in the drive so what you bitching and moaning about? All a legitimate game owner can do in that situation is endlessly eject and put the disk back in until the "bullshit" is satisfied I am not a pirate. If I call up the publisher, what do they do? You are a pirate, they won't help you not that they have ever been helpful since pre-2000. Basically, you now have a $40-60 frisbee on your hands but wait, there's hope: Pirates/hackers to the rescue! Replace a few files and viola, games works again without the stupid disk in the drive! The pirates/hackers are more useful to the customer than the publisher for one simple reason: pirates/hackers believe people are innocent until proven guilty; publishers believe you are guilty until proven innocent by their dodgy software. Publishers created that bomb squad and it won't go away until they quit planting bombs.
 

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#34
Stop saying "we". I know from experience now matter how good you are someone out there is better. Plus the US government is one of the most incompetent entities on the planet. Ever been to the DMV? Yeah I thought so.
ok so you worked at correcting my grammer because of your personal belifes in the US govt. Its coding populos and this is a valid argument how? that screams "IMO" at which point it is baseless.
 

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#35
That code wouldn't have put in there to begin with if it wasn't for hackers. Now you rely on hackers to remove it. See where this is going?
Hackers are people skilled with computers. Back in the day, any idiot could "pirate" a game just like they can pirate a movie. The hackers didn't flock to gaming until anti-piracy software was put in place (e.g. Macrovision's Checkdisk). There was now a challenge and an incentive to break the code.
 
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#36
"hacking" by today's standards is completely different than what it was 10-15 years ago.

10-15 years ago, "hacking" was all about "freedom of information," it wasn't so much about "breaking" into systems or programs for the hell of it, it was out of curiosity and the quest for knowledge. Thing is, though, everyone involved in the scene knew what we were doing was illegal - we didn't try to justify it, instead defending our actions in our access to "knowledge."

This sums up the "hacking" scene of 15 years ago: http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html


For those of us who wer part of that scene at some point or anothed, long before it became "glamorized" by movies such as "Hackers," how much of that still applies to these "hackers" of today?

Today, the "hackers" break such systems and software for bragging rights - if you've payed any attention to these underground communities, there's near constant in-fighting and trying to out-do other groups. It's all a show of one-upmanship . . . not what we had nearly a score years ago. As well, they try to justify their actions, and have confused themselves into believing that they're not doing anything illegal (although, I still stand by the belief that if one must justify one's actions, then one knows it's unethical), and that they're acting for the betterment of society.


No matter how you look at it, it's still all illegal. Sure, sometimes the occasional good does come out of it (most modern corporate and government network systems wouldn't be anywhere near as secure as they currently are if not for the old-school phreaks), but that's a rare circumstance. 95% of the time, that's not how things will go down.



-EDIT-

. . . and, BTW, just to clear things up . . . "hackers" today are actually "crackers" - I've never viewed any of these kiddies as being what the old-school were.
 

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#37
Plus the US government is one of the most incompetent entities on the planet. Ever been to the DMV? Yeah I thought so.

All I know is this will turn into half the forum vs me in a few more posts.
Nah, you're wrong good buddy. The British government takes that cake! :laugh: I mean seriously, what a bunch of clowns. :nutkick:
 
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#38
ok so you worked at correcting my grammer because of your personal belifes in the US govt. Its coding populos and this is a valid argument how? that screams "IMO" at which point it is baseless.
No MilkyWay statement was based off assumption and opinion. The entire argument about "Americans being the best" is not only irrelevant but based off opinion and assumption as your statement is. We are in FACT not the best at anything. Nor is anyone else.

Nah, you're wrong good buddy. The British government takes that cake! :laugh: I mean seriously, what a bunch of clowns. :nutkick:
See we cant even agree on who's more incompetent!
 
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#39
I don't think hackers are actually doing illegal things, even if they distribute their cracks all over the internet.

Uploading illegal copies of games are illegal. Not the crack itself nor the hackers.
 
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#39
That code wouldn't have put in there to begin with if it wasn't for hackers. Now you rely on hackers to remove it. See where this is going?
Honestly its not just hackers its the homebrew scene too, if you look at it the big companies didn't like the bedroom programmers of the 80s. They try to shut out the homebrew scene because it detracts from the big companies.

Before piracy there was homebrew.

Its like years ago they started implementing security on disks ect because they thought piracy might be an issue that age old saying prevention is better than treatment. Panic mongers implementing things way before its happened.

Piracy has been and always will be, people used to get twin recorder video players to copy video tapes.

You cant treat piracy unless you start effecting other areas, like the removal of otherOS on PS3.

EDIT: NASA and the US Military is "SAID" to have the best security, if i mistook that as fact apologies. Its not really something i can test out is it. One man broke into a security system through a remote connection to an unmanned terminal had a person been there they would've noticed it. The whole point was that the guy didn't really do anything morally wrong just broke a few international and US laws.
 

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#40
Ever hear of reverse engineering?
Reverse engineering is legal so long as the people doing reverse engineering had no contact with those that originally authored it.
 
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#41
With out hackers you wouldn't have the security of today.

Im not saying what they do is right, but it makes the next gen stuff even better.

Just watch Takedown.
 
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#42
Reverse engineering is legal so long as the people doing reverse engineering had no contact with those that originally authored it.
Most EULA prohibit it.

Why? your perception of perfect or better is warped. Like everyone else. Like all of us. However Their is no reason why someone else cant be the best. How could it? You know what dont answer that this is derailed enough. This isnt about personal opinions on rash statements tought to us over the years. Not to mention its incredably off topic.
Agreed. :toast:
 

Solaris17

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#43
I think one of the important distinctions people forget to make are the diffrent catagories. The term "Hacker" gets thrown around like girls at a frat party. Its a word that people use for many reasons victimise, criminalize etc. However the term is improperly used very very often then the deffinition it was ment for. Of course this just drives propoganda and "doom saying" scaring people into thinking that boogy men are in more places than their kids closet. Of course it is true to a certain degree virus coders etc can fall into the boogy man catagory but thats not what this is about. "Real" hackers for lack of a better term are not intrested in the home user they are after the big companys. They dont care about naked pictures of your wife or the porn you hide from her. No the tools that get into your system are 11th grade script kiddies who think their 1337 because they went to your house disabled your AV went to ipchicken wrote it down went back home and wrote something up in the C# they learned that day in class. Their are diffirences and before people cant realy be scared be angry or even have a serious discussion. Until you know the diffirence.
 
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#44
hackers hack because they find it fun, just like how mm finds it fun to somehow not be banned yet.

I dont get what the big deal is, we can all agree that hackers and hacked consoles for the most part r an extreme minority that if say for some reason we didnt spend hours in a computer forum we would never even know existed.
 

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#45
hackers hack because they find it fun, just like how mm finds it fun to somehow not be banned yet.

I dont get what the big deal is, we can all agree that hackers and hacked consoles for the most part r an extreme minority that if say for some reason we didnt spend hours in a computer forum we would never even know existed.
wut? I hope you werent implying MM needed to be repremanded for something he said in this thread? Anyway the big deal is the controversy behind what they do. Who what when were why? the problem is it turns into a wtf chicken or the egg argument in about 3min.
 
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#46
All I know is that I'm glad Sony removed linux. Its even better for European Owners cause they can get a refund of a good portions of their money back and still Keep the Other OS Feature. I personally haven't updated (can still play online though), plan on getting the Custom PS3 OS from GeoHot and hope the Hacking Continues. All PSP hacking has shown me is that Hombrew Apps own anything thing Sony Released for the PSP. I want the same for the PS3
 
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#47
I think one of the important distinctions people forget to make are the diffrent catagories. The term "Hacker" gets thrown around like girls at a frat party. Its a word that people use for many reasons victimise, criminalize etc. However the term is improperly used very very often then the deffinition it was ment for. Of course this just drives propoganda and "doom saying" scaring people into thinking that boogy men are in more places than their kids closet. Of course it is true to a certain degree virus coders etc can fall into the boogy man catagory but thats not what this is about. "Real" hackers for lack of a better term are not intrested in the home user they are after the big companys. They dont care about naked pictures of your wife or the porn you hide from her. No the tools that get into your system are 11th grade script kiddies who think their 1337 because they went to your house disabled your AV went to ipchicken wrote it down went back home and wrote something up in the C# they learned that day in class. Their are diffirences and before people cant realy be scared be angry or even have a serious discussion. Until you know the diffirence.
I blame WarGames.
 

Solaris17

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#48

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#49
Sol said:
I hope you werent implying MM needed to be repremanded for something he said in this thread?
Other than the little off-topic jaunt about nationality, you've all behaved pretty well for a thread of this type (which usually causes flame wars). Please keep it that way :toast:

I am not sure why hardware companies do not unlock their stuff. The gaming industry has proven over and over that allowing people to modify/add content greatly extends the life of a product. Just look at NWN. There are still new mods coming out.
 
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Solaris17

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#50
Other than the little off-topic jaunt about nationality, you've all behaved pretty well for a thread of this type (which usually causes flame wars). Please keep it that way :toast:

I am not sure why hardware companies do not unlock there stuff. The gaming industry has proven over and over that allowing people to modify/add content greatly extends the life of a product. Just look at NWN. There are still new mods coming out.
nwn was a bad mention I love that game and this will quickly go south with further discussion of how awesome that game is.